NickHolt Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 I've seen the usac and west cars come here year after year and run a second groove .I've seen Bobby Joe run the outsise one year and won a bunch of races . So is it the experince that let these guys do it or is it that they work on there cars more? I know I am going to get killed over this, but the second groove at THR can actually be faster than the low groove if your engine and suspension are set up for it and if the track conditions are right. Even with the engine set up for the low groove, a good THR driver occasionally will find that fast line up top (about 1 lap in 10) and be quicker on the clock than on the lower groove. But it requires a skilled driver and it requires much more suspension development and it requires that others using the same tire make also run up top to put some good, fresh rubber down. If three or four guys in TSRS wanted to make a pact to run the high groove and stick to it, you would see some double-wide racing at THR. For starters, the cam and gear combination is easier for the top groove since you don't have to go through such a large RPM range. However, if TSRS is running Hoosiers and the rest of the cars running that night at THR are running Goodyears, this will not work. The two different compounds just plain do not work well together for whatever hydrocarbon-based reason. It would take too long to "erase" the bad rubber up high and you would see just what you see now - cars trying the outside getting freight-trained. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Nick What about putting "Rosin" or "Coke" down? I dont know about the expense but tracks did it years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Ricci Ware used to do it at Pan American... txtom can tell you all about that since he was one of the guys actually putting it down on the track. It does help and adds a great new smell to a race car that is cooling down on the front straight while the driver gets his pic taken... LOL Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97car Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Question, Nick does the various hardness of the compounds work with each other any different(softer Hoosier versus harder compound Hoosier). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Question, Nick does the various hardness of the compounds work with each other any different(softer Hoosier versus harder compound Hoosier). It didn't seem to make any difference at San Antonio when we ran the two different Hoosiers. But when Goodyears or McCrearys (now Am Racer) left their rubber it always was greasy for a few laps until the Hoosier rubber got laid down again. The problem is even worse at THR than it was at SAS IMHO. I have been advocating for the 8 inch Goodyears for the TSRS cars and the THR SSs for the past few years. These tires last like forever and don't drop off after a race or two. In fact, they actually can get quicker over time if they were not abused in an earlier heat cycle. With all THR classes - including TSRS - on the 8-inch Goodyears, the potential for developing a second groove would greatly enhanced. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProTree Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 like i said earlier papa,some vht sp165 compound for circle track application and i could fix it right up.could even call hank thomas performance and grab a bucket of gold dust to work in with the process.one of the jobs i do is travel around the country,troubleshoot tracks and make racing surface's work and grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Question, Nick does the various hardness of the compounds work with each other any different(softer Hoosier versus harder compound Hoosier). you race tps on hoosiers you havent noticed how slick they are after other classes run before tps ..it does take a few more laps to get those tires to stick like they should .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97car Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 Heck my 2005 antiques, I cannot afford new rubber every year like some of you HT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasghamilton Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Is there a chassis dyno near the track? You could run a lb/hp rule. Require a dyno pull, log timing and temps, and determine weight from that. @ 8lbs/hp 400hp = 3200lbs. @ 7lbs/hp 450hp = 3150lbs. Then you would have people with throttle stops like the wonderful Toyota teams had to hide there horsepower. How about leaving the engine rules like thay have seemed to work fine for many years in NASCAR late model and TSRS. Most people all ready have engines and parts. Just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poorboy Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 I think it's better racing when there is to much motor for the tires. I think thats why IMCA racing is so good on the dirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodneyRodriguez Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 oh no!! don't talk about changing tires on the SS, good way to lose the Sizzlin 7!!! Startin over too costly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast18 Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 my 2 cents...Leave the tires alone or put everyone on 970"s (or all the racers could vote on one tire...yeah a tire election ...that's the ticket)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundogC3 Posted December 12, 2009 Report Share Posted December 12, 2009 Simple. Everybody has F-53's, do a two tire rule... shock's....there are a couple of Coil over car's so leave them alone, or atleast make it a 300.00 max on cost. Just want to say, the shock's that Chase bought for the truck shouldn't be outlaw'ed. They arent anything special. They are avalible to anyone that want's to buy them...they are in a catalog, and anybody that want's to be fast can buy em(allway's has been in racing). That's the only thing that's got me $%%$% off about next year. I understand what the powers to be want to do...BUT.... ALLREADY spent the money, and now get to buy MORE shock's (mo money), and give these away(loose money). Just don't add up......JMO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-Crew Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 In the end, it really doesn't matter what rules you have in place if they can't be enforced. Fuel, have to be a specified supplier with a unique and identifiable dye package. Shocks, have to be serial numbered and issued to the team at each race. Or the sanctioning body has to invest in an expensive shock dyno.. Tires, serial numbered and tracked per team. From what I have seen, the Goodyear grooved tires seem to hold up better longer and come in quicker on re-starts. Durometer tested at qualifying and heat race finish. Tires do fall off but having run several tests over the last year with TPS cars, you can tell real quickly how many laps are on a tire.. You can also tell if a tire is abnormally soft for the age and number of laps it should have.... Particular to TSRS or other "late model" classes, use the 8" tire. If you have more power than tire, it makes it more of a drivers race. It also helps the lower funded teams that can't afford the better engine package. Jack former TPS inspector.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Walker Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 I've been reading these posts and thinking. I don't have a dog in this hunt but the same problems are affecting all of the local racing scene. Here are a couple of my thoughts. A) sitck with a brand of tires for more than 2 seasons. B)If the races start at 8:00, don't open the pits untill 6:00. Cars that run at the same track weekly do not need hours of practice. Ten to twelve hours at race track is too long for a weekly show. Rememeber the Longhorn days? C) Eliminate qualifing and run 10 lap heats. Use the finishing order to set the line up for the feature. Only run 20-30 features. D) If there isn't a full field of cars, only run them once or twice a month. The costs of the TSRS cars was opened up a long time ago. The ideas presented by people on here would help but they are all long term deals. Up front they cost a great deal of money, diffenert shocks, crate motors , harder tires, etc. Look at what the teams are spending before the races just to show up. That is the stuff that can be addressed for a quick fix. There will always be teams with deep pockets out spending lower funded teams. The trick is to make fair for both groups. Good luck to all of the teams and to the Nauman's for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbotoddie Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Wayne I agree with your points except for crates. The current crate program is buy a motor then send it out and have it gone through. This is no cheaper than a TSRS motor up front. Maybe it is cheaper in the long run but I attended PRI a couple of years ago and sat in on a lecture about crates. The speaker started with a hello and pulled out a 5lb bag of engine seals and said they were readily available to anyone. I would just assume to be out spent with a real motor instead of a crate. Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debwill Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Todd, I normally don't address technical issues, but I know you weren't at the meeting to hear the details on the possible addition of a crate motor for the TSRS Late Models. If the crate motor is added to the rules, it will be an option, not a requirement. No rebuilding will be allowed, and the specifications on the crate will include a track claim rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerjim2 Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 was reading the snowflake rules you can run a built motor with a and a 500 cfm carb and a 7000 RPM chip in the rev limitier right along with the craits with the 600 CFM 4 barrels coud they be worng? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Moon Motorsports Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 When we switched to a crate from a 10.5:1 305 in the #3 Truck, we forgot to take out a 6800 chip....The 602 was floating the valves before it hit the rev limiter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Walker Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 TurboToddie, I am not a fan of crate rules in any shape, form or fashion. I race IMCA and have three motors that have less than $13,000 total. How much would three crate motors be. Also, each of these motors will turn over 7600 rpm's easily and make WAY more power than those other things(crates). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txtom Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 was reading the snowflake rules you can run a built motor with a and a 500 cfm carb and a 7000 RPM chip in the rev limitier right along with the craits with the 600 CFM 4 barrels coud they be worng? That's right, Jim, flat top pistons, no roller cam , 23 degree heads, 2.05/160 valves. Was just discussing these rules with Tommy Grimes about an hour ago. If you have a dry-sump, you can keep it. And several front-runners run the 2 BBL option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jracer98 Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 "was reading the snowflake rules" Where are the snowflake and modified engine rules? Thanks Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xzgqh6 Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 "was reading the snowflake rules" Where are the snowflake and modified engine rules? Thanks Jay the modified rules are on 1 1/2 pages and are pretty simple. no dry sump no aluminum blocks and 50 pound penalty for aluminum heads that must be in front of the cross member......1 carburator allowed and claimer on the ignition box. pretty simple.........we out qualified several cars with over 650 horsepower.... we had a 4 barrel and were out qualified by 3 cars with 2 barrels..........best rules around for modifieds...........we plan to run all mobile and pensacola mod races in 2010 and will run hmp and kyle with our crate eng...........and by the way Mark C. won the mod race with a 2 barrel steel head motor..........these rules are controlled by the tire.........it will hold so much for so long and then the lower horsepower cars come to the front.........go to 5flagsspeeway and go to the 2010 gulf coast modified rules............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jracer98 Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 thank you. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbotoddie Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Thanks Debbie I read the notes from the meeting and saw the talk about the crates. I just don't see the track buying anyone's engine for fear of making someone mad. And again, opening the class up to more cars is not going to change it significantly. There are other issues that need to be addressed to get the unused TSRS cars back out. thanks Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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