Economic times affect the Texas Super Racing Series

[Blue Moon Motorsports]

No dog in this fight, but I would like to see TSRS and THR grow and prosper. I'm going throw my two cents in on the tire issue.....If TSRS stays with 8" tires, the Goodyear grooved tires that the trucks run get 3-4 GOOD races on a set, and actually get better the 2nd and 3rd races. There doesn't seem to be alot if any fall off over the first 3-4 races. That would definately cut down on tire costs.

[TGural]

Don't believe the TSRS car needs to be changed that much to accomplish the reduced cost objective and make the whole field of cars more competitive.

1) I believe as already mentioned, the tires and weight should be the biggest limiting factors. (As Smokey Yunick always said). Prefer the harder Goodyear tire, because they offer cost savings by lasting longer. They'll also help prevent the over spending for horse power and makes people have to drive the car.

2) On the shock issue, 1 inch sway bar only allowed. Or I've heard of some tracks collecting money from every driver to buy shocks. When you show up you get 4 shocks randomally assigned. To get paid and be able to leave, you turn them back in. Kinda extreme but some tracks are tired of hearing about it. Otherwise get used to high dollar shocks...

3) Getting rid of qualifing saves money too.

 

Tommy

[Blue Moon Motorsports]

Don't believe the TSRS car needs to be changed that much to accomplish the reduced cost objective and make the whole field of cars more competitive.

1) I believe as already mentioned, the tires and weight should be the biggest limiting factors. (As Smokey Yunick always said). Prefer the harder Goodyear tire, because they offer cost savings by lasting longer. They'll also help prevent the over spending for horse power and makes people have to drive the car.

2) On the shock issue, 1 inch sway bar only allowed. Or I've heard of some tracks collecting money from every driver to buy shocks. When you show up you get 4 shocks randomally assigned. To get paid and be able to leave, you turn them back in. Kinda extreme but some tracks are tired of hearing about it. Otherwise get used to high dollar shocks...

3) Getting rid of qualifing saves money too.

 

Tommy

 

If you do a green white checker qualifying in race trim it shouldn't add to the cost....

[Truck99]

Don't believe the TSRS car needs to be changed that much to accomplish the reduced cost objective and make the whole field of cars more competitive.

1) I believe as already mentioned, the tires and weight should be the biggest limiting factors. (As Smokey Yunick always said). Prefer the harder Goodyear tire, because they offer cost savings by lasting longer. They'll also help prevent the over spending for horse power and makes people have to drive the car.

2) On the shock issue, 1 inch sway bar only allowed. Or I've heard of some tracks collecting money from every driver to buy shocks. When you show up you get 4 shocks randomally assigned. To get paid and be able to leave, you turn them back in. Kinda extreme but some tracks are tired of hearing about it. Otherwise get used to high dollar shocks...

3) Getting rid of qualifing saves money too.

 

Tommy

 

If you do a green white checker qualifying in race trim it shouldn't add to the cost....

 

It's not the actual qualifying that leads to increased costs but rather the preparation for qualifying.

[turbotoddie]

Okay Nick, you asked for it.

 

From the back of the pack, the only thing that is going to increase car count in this class is a better purse. Before tires, fuel, entry fees, these cars are expensive to own and maintain.

 

 

TSRS is done so travel isn't as much an issue but it is hard to start a race with a $500 set of tires, $150 entry fee and $100 in pit passes and know the winner spent way more than that so no one is gonna come close to breaking even. Forget crash damage costs. A wheel is $100, steering center link $150 and so on.

 

You want to make the class more competitive, here is my .02!

 

-Min spring rate/remove bump stop technology

 

-A shock rule that allows a spec adjustable shock(maybe cut a deal with a shock company as a sponsor?)

 

-2 tire a night rule-Goodyear

 

-All involved when it comes to accidents. Like it or not, it will help reduce accidents

 

-DSQ anyone pulling a brake check on a restart(it's chicken#@$% like this that causes unnecessary damage)

 

-Don't open the track Fri night before every race. It may make money for the track but it costs out of towners a night in a motel, eating out, time off from work, etc More wear and tear on cars.

(How many cars blew up Fri night the last couple of years?)

 

-Quit trying to open the class to every car gathering dust. The best driver should win, not the most advantageous chassis. Don't make people spend money trying to find a loophole in the rules

 

-50 lap feature (yellows don't count)

 

-Tougher tech enforcement (No disrespect to Jack but one man can't do it all)

 

Not a cost saver but don't open the track until 2pm or 3pm and at least three practice sessions might be more enticing to people who own cars growing dust. Give the drivers supporting the track some seat time.

 

 

Todd Farris

TSRS 96

[mgr61]

Todd

 

I want to say that I agree with your shock idea more so than some of the others I have seen. I dont really know about the cost of adjustable shocks vs what is being spent now but it would seem a set of four spec adjustable shocks would be more economical than having every shock imaginable on the trailer. A spec shock with a supplier willing to put up some contingency money ( not purse money) would be good for business.

 

I also wanted to comment on your suggestion of 3 practice sessions. I know with all the classes it would be hard to start later and get more practice time.

I think it would be better to combine classes like TSRS and the mod's for longer sessions where we have a little time to try things.By the time we get one class off another on and get a green flag I would be surprisesd if we get 8 minutes per session and if some goes wrong ( like running out of gas)then you loose a whole session. When the Nascar series was here the year before last we got 30 minutes in one session. I think we were able to go out about 5-6 times and make minor adjustments and acomplished much more than possible in 2,3,or even 4 sessions. Your right this has little to do with cost savings but is a more efficient use of time.

[racer61]

you had to bring up the running out of gas thing didnt ya?

[j.j.&s.racing]

8'' goodyears are a good hard tire just check for shaving,and softing of the tires.

[krusty_rusty]

still have yet to hear from tsrs drivers

[LM-RACER-20]

You did. TGural. He isnt racing right now but does have a horse in this. He crew chiefs one that cant afford to keep racing and has 2 cars himself he cant afford to race. He has been a pusher for economical changes for years. But it usually goes the other way and thats why the cars were first parked.

[PAPA]

I know this was answered before but I dont remember. What is the Normal race budget per year? I know thats a hard question because every team is different but what kind of $ does it take to run these cars? And what does it cost to build one?

[turbotoddie]

Howdy Papa

 

Here are some of the costs I can remember

$536/night for tires

$25/pit pass per person

$50/cooler

$70/fuel for truck/trailer

$150/entry fee

$40?/Fri night prac to try and get some seat time

 

Professional engine build will run you $10k and up

TSRS cars can be bought from $7k and up depending on how old and pedigree

Couldn't tell you what a new turn key package would cost

Brake pads $120+ per axle

Fuel$7 gal

Shocks sky is the limit

Nose ~$150

Fender ~125 (Fiberglass repair kit $10)

Hood ~$100

Spindle~$150

 

FWIW, I am not the most up to date on tech guy out there and I don't run up front. So, these are only costs I am acquainted with. I don't have a shock dyno, expensive shocks or 'part of the week' type stuff.

 

 

Todd Farris

Thunderhill? #96

[PAPA]

WOW!!! Over a Grand just to show up for a race. I knew it was expensive but I didnt realize it was that much. I can see now why there arent to many cars on any given night. I guess it all adds up. Sponsorship is the key I guess. This is really an expensive hobbie. So, as I see it...Tires, motor and shocks are the main cost items. I dont know how to control the cost of the motors but as mentioned above the tires and shocks can be controlled somewhat. I think someone needs to look real good at Todds ideas. Like I said before I dont have a dog in this fight and what I know about owning and operating a team is enough to be dangerous but common sence tells me his ideas are a good place to start.

[TGural]

Look, agree that it would be good to get more input from other TSRS drivers. Feel it would help the track and drivers, to try making racing more affordable for everyone.

Speaking for ourselves (LM-Racer-20)...there are many reasons we took a break from racing and could afford to continue, if that's what we choose to do. We made the decision to prioritize our business and personal obligations ahead of racing for a while. Especially after racing every year in the past, Teresa 16 and Tommy 22 years. We raced TSRS probably longer than any other drivers in the series. We do plan to race again this next season.

And yes PAPA, we easily spent $1500 to show up a the track with 2 cars. We hardly ever bought more than 2 tires per car. That's where most of the money is consumed, in tires, fuel, and entry/pit fees. Most are spending more than that, to qualify well.

[PAPA]

Is there anything we as FANS can do to help out? I dont have anymore money than most but maybe there is something we can do. I know we need to bring or have more people at the track to support it so we can continue to have a race to go to. I was just wondering if there is anything we FANS can do?

[rebelracewriter]

With passing already at a "premium" wouldn't going to a harder 8" tire make it even more difficult? Or would it put more emphathis on set up therefore making laps times less comparative and passing easier?

 

Another technical question here.....IF they went to a 10" tire what are the initial costs vs tire life cycle and would a 10" tire make passing easier so less equipment got torn up.(If passing where easier, in theory, it could eliminate the bump-n-run, brake checking, chopping/blocking)

[PAPA]

Earlier in this post there was mention of "Treaded Tires". Can these cars race on them? Has it ever been tried? Just curious.

[racer61]

Treaded tires such as the goodyear would work fine. The 10" tire will help in overall grip but with an increase in grip, there will be an increase in speed and again it will be cubic dollar to the front. Passing would really not change so I dont think the 10's will help. As far as PAPA's question "What can fans do?". Keep coming back! Bring friends, word of mouth. The biggest help tracks get are from the extra booty's in the stands. Oh, and please provide PAPA with flashy cars, he seems to be visually stimulated.

I still have a TSRS car in the back of the shop covered up if I thought I could be competitive. But on my budget, the class I am in now fits the bill. Now if anybody wanted to put 2 and 2 together, I still use my TSRS motor and Im spending ALOT less money and when we practice together i find myself running faster than most of the TSRS cars.

[lilmodified]

i got it! everyone just switch to a sport-mod!

[PAPA]

Cory

Being visually stimulated at my age is all I can ask for. But getting back on the subject at hand.....it seems to me (from what Ive been reading on here) that in order to get more TSRS cars (and others) on the track is going to take more money than it is making rule changes. That means "SPONSORS". Those are going to be hard to get in this economic time. How does one go about securing a sponsor? Is there a "PLAN" or "BLUEPRINT" to do this?

[mgr61]

PAPA

 

I know this may sound crazy but in my opinion sponsership to individual cars would be great for the individuals involved but it seems that most of the sponsership ends up going to the cars that already run up front, just like in the big leagues ,and the same cars can continue to run up front. Many of these sponsers are family or business relationships and naturally go to the people they know. What if some of that money was spent on the purse ( and I'm not talking about money for the fastest qualifier or winner of the race). If some of the car sponsers were to help with the purse, rather than a single car then more money could be paid deeper through the field, then more cars could meet expenses or at least have a chance. Right now if you don't win then you can't even pay the tires and gas much less all the other expeses. If (and this is a bif IF) If the purse could pay enough to buy tires and gas through 10 or 15 places then more teams would feel like they could race every race then the number of cars would improve followed by the number of fans and etc. If a title sponser could pay 1/2 of this increased purse for the top 15 places, the back gate should pay the rest or the positions 16-26. The purse provided now could pay the other 1/2.

As much as we would like a great sponser I think a great purse sponser would do more for making the racing better ( by spending less on the cars possibly making the compitition more even) and increasing the number of cars.

[Blue Moon Motorsports]

With passing already at a "premium" wouldn't going to a harder 8" tire make it even more difficult? Or would it put more emphathis on set up therefore making laps times less comparative and passing easier?

 

Another technical question here.....IF they went to a 10" tire what are the initial costs vs tire life cycle and would a 10" tire make passing easier so less equipment got torn up.(If passing where easier, in theory, it could eliminate the bump-n-run, brake checking, chopping/blocking)

 

No offense Reb, but the width of the tire doesn't have anything to with Brake checking. That's just a chicken fecal matter way to drive. NOW, on the other stuff, you may have a valid point.

[Blue Moon Motorsports]

Cory

Being visually stimulated at my age is all I can ask for. But getting back on the subject at hand.....it seems to me (from what Ive been reading on here) that in order to get more TSRS cars (and others) on the track is going to take more money than it is making rule changes. That means "SPONSORS". Those are going to be hard to get in this economic time. How does one go about securing a sponsor? Is there a "PLAN" or "BLUEPRINT" to do this?

 

I have found you need to have a Marketing FIRM to be able to speak with a human being at most large companies. The little guy can't even get into speak to someone. It's tough out there......

[hray]

Earlier in this post there was mention of "Treaded Tires". Can these cars race on them? Has it ever been tried? Just curious.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't TSRS run 970's in the beginning?

The reason I recommended the 970 is SS already run them and even though they are treaded and harder than the F53, they are also 1" wider than the F53 while being the same diameter. If you change to the 8" GY you have a narrower treaded tire that is a smaller diameter (read extra money for new gear ratios). Besides, Jerry is a Hoosier dealer. If I'm not mistaken, Graham Baker is the GY distributor for TX, which means Jerry would have to buy tires from him. I would be willing to bet the profit margin is not there.

 

From what has been suggested so far, the following would make the most difference in cost to the TSRS racer:

1. Change to a longer lasting tire

2. Institute a 2 tire per race rule

3. Control shock costs (price cap or spec shock or claim rule)

4. Pay higher purse further down the finish order (move existing purse further down or get title sponsor to pay increase)

5. And I still say allow E85 to lower race fuel cost

[turbotoddie]

Earlier in this post there was mention of "Treaded Tires". Can these cars race on them? Has it ever been tried? Just curious.

 

 

5. And I still say allow E85 to lower race fuel cost

 

 

I disagree with this suggestion because bringing experimentation into the mix is going to cost money not save it. The seven or eight gal a night of real fuel we burn isn't that much compared to tires, entry fee, pit pass, etc. $60 in race fuel is a cheap insurance policy on my motor. As well, E85 is a mass produced fuel that goes into bulk tanks underground and has no standard of consistency. Now, one can argue that some fuel distributors water their's down but I have never had a bad load of race fuel.

 

todd