2022 Almost In The Rear View

[Flagman]

I grew up racing with parts I could find in the Junk yard. I was racing a car that had less money in the entire car including the trailer than the money guys had in just the Engine. I miss those days. Now you are lucky if you can find anything in the junk yard that fits the car you are running. Then if money is not enough of a problem, neighbor hood improvement comes by to tell you everything has to go because its an eye sore. 

[HiTech]

3 hours ago, arob said:

Well if the demise of the internal combustion engine and the fuel that powers it comes to pass by 2030 that would be the end of it anyway.

 

 

nah we would have to go solar power .. nick i believe  youwere part of the go faster group .and u never drove a racar or owned  one i suppose ..  u just made them working on the on  moving part that fit under the motor . i remember the racars sitting around the  gas staions ..

[MikePeters95]

23 hours ago, NickHolt said:

When was the last time you saw a stock car parked next to a neighborhood gas station?  Back in the day, almost every gas station had a beat-up stock car, or two, that ended up in the service bay weeknights and mysteriously vanished every weekend during racing season. 

The guys who used to pump gas, perform oil changes and turn brake drums during work hours at the corner filing station lived to race on the weekends, saving up for some potent "high test" and perhaps a used tire or two. 

I remain hopeful that stock car racing will find a way to save itself from extinction. At this point the best bet would be for the current generation of street racers to stop killing each other on the streets and start killing each other on racetracks.

 

I am extremely open to trying to figure out how to rekindle the imagination and interest of the average American and especially those I have access too.  Enclosed trailers (I'm guilty, I have one) hide a lot of the allure and lust of seeing a race car, but just putting them outside helps a lot too.  I need to start doing what I say here, but other than doing Raising Cane's store openings and Pit Crew Challenges with schools and companies, I'm trying to find ways to get people the opportunity to touch/see/feel a racecar, as I feel that is the biggest thing society is missing, as you touched on, back in the day they were just more visible.  I can't even imagine how cool it was back in your younger days, I was just a 90's kid.

Also @ron.brown11 thanks for sharing your posts, cool reads and knowledge of some of the older tracks I've only seen on Google Maps and Youtube and through people I know so far.

Edited December 5, 2022 by MikePeters95

[24nomo]

After making the rounds at the Snowball derby, found out about 95% of these SLM guys do not build their own cars any more.  Most of them buy them Turnkey from Hamke, Fury or Port City for $120,000 on up.   Not many normal guys racing there.  But that is where the action is at.  People were spending money hand over fist on everything there.  Price was no object.   Hotels were about $300 day, Rental Cars $200, food was over the top and well, you know the boooze was high, and lots of it

Edited December 5, 2022 by 24nomo

[Flagman]

We took our cars to the Boyscouts Pine Wood Derby and other meetings we could find to let everyone see the cars.

We had some R/C cars that were rapped just like the big cars to help garner interest as well.

[ron.brown11]

 When I lived in Tucson, every year the track would host a day for schools, and an auto tech school at the track. I always took time out from my business, and took the car to the track. I did it, because seeing a race car up close when I was 11 changed my life. I had fun talking to the kids, and some seemed pretty interested. But the best part was when I'd fire it up. That's when you'd see who was really hooked. There's nothing like 650hp engine, open headers, up close and running on alcohol to grab your attention! It was not uncommon to see some of those kids roaming the pits soon after. Some were still under 18, and would be dragging a parent or two along into the pits after the races. Others were already 18, and some of them were now helping a race team. Over the years I had a couple that hung around for awhile. Both ended up helping other teams that happened to live closer to where they did. I was happy that they were still involved.

I started out with an open trailer too. It was basic to say the least. It was an old mobile home frame & 2 axles. Just enough wood to hold the tires. Hey, had I ever needed to change a clutch or trans, I had plenty of ground clearance!! Then I bought an enclosed trailer. I couldn't afford to wrap the whole trailer, so I got some 5'x8' images of the car and put them on both sides and the drop ramp. Not quite the same as actually seeing the car, but I left no doubt as to what was in there. I also put another decal on the drop ramp. It said "Follow me to Great Racing at Tucson Raceway Park". I also ran a few times at I-10 Speedway in Blyth, CA. The track GM wasn't amused when he saw that.

Here's the best example of the "having too much money teams". There was a guy that started running the mod class, the second season I was running it. He had run 2 seasons in a street stock, and won 3 or 4 races there. Mom & dad had a towing company, and was doing pretty good, with contracts with both the city & county. They bought him a used mod, it wasn't a successful car with the experienced driver that had raced it for several years. About 10 races into his modified rookie season, he destroyed it. I mean that there was nothing usable left on that car, nothing!. He didn't run anymore that season. I'm guessing that he was able to convince mom & dad that it was the car's fault. Two weeks before opening day, the track had open practice. He shows up with a brand new Lefthander chassis, and an engine built by one of the best machine shops in Tucson. When the mods got our first time on the track that day, we got 4-5 warm up laps to get some heat in the tires. I was about a half straightaway behind him when the green came out on the front stretch. He looked a little loose in 1&2, so I backed off a little. Now I'm about a full straight behind him, and that was a good thing. He drove it straight into the turn 3 wall. Hey no worries. A guy named Paul Banghart, owner of GAT Racing, clipped the front and got it ready for opening night. Through the draw, this guy gets the pole for the main, that had 26 cars starting. Twenty one of those cars never made it to turn 1. That wreck tore up 14 cars that didn't continue the race. His car now needed both clips replaced. Thankfully he missed the next 3 races. When he did return, he had another brand new Lefthander chassis. It took 2 races for this one to need a front clip. When the season was over, I had gone to Paul's shop to pick up a couple of new bumpers & and a shock. I asked Paul if he had a guesstimate on how much this guy spent that season. He opened a file cabinet and pulled his folder out. He spent a few minutes totaling his bill. They spent over a $104,000 dollars for 2 complete rollers, 1 engine, and have this cars clipped 6 times (4 on 1, 2 on the second). This lasted going not quite that badly for 2 season more. Then mom & dad filed for bankruptcy. Racers are their own worst enemy most times. I liked the mom & dad, but couldn't feel sorry for them. 

Flagman, when I started going to races, all cars were predominantly from junkyards. A lot of NASCAR haters despise the new Next Gen car, because it's like watching IROC or spec cars (their words, not mine). In some ways that's valid. But the reality is for me is that I've been seeing that the majority of my life. Ed Howe of Beaverton, MI was the first mass produced late model chassis. They're still making chassis' today. If you crashed 1 of their cars, and it needed a front clip, you called them with the chassis VIN number, they pulled it off the shelf and had it shipped or you could go pick it up. In 2 seasons, usually half the asphalt late model chassis' running in the Midwest were Howe's. The second company to do it was Petty Engineering in Level Cross, NC. Yeah, that Petty. That was the start of the decline in junkyard chassis' being run. It was more expensive, but so much faster than getting a frame, prepping it, and then mounting it to the wrecked chassis. That's what got us to where we are today. You buy, not build a chassis. You buy, not scavenge for parts. The bad thing about these store bought chassis' is the cost. But the good thing is the speed at which you can fix a car. Plus, you usually can get a baseline setup from the company that built your chassis. A whole lot less trial & error than a junkyard setup. That really helps teams (new or old), get up to speed.

[24nomo]

yes, there are lots of other things to do that are way more fun than hanging out in junkyards to support your hobby.  I would rather be like that guy that is the arrive and drive type.  Give them their $120,000 grand and show up with a clean crisp driving suit, clean fingernails and hot chicks and lets go racing boys

[Flagman]

I enjoy running my home built junk nowadays. Anyone I pass is enjoyable knowing I have lees in my whole operation than they have in their chassis. It has made me learn how to work on the set up on my own. But that adds to the fun for me.

Hitech to tell you about some of the junk I ran on asphalt back then.

[ron.brown11]

Yeah, I would have loved to be able to show up and drive frontline stuff. But those drivers are usually the ones gone when to money runs out. I was pretty much self funded, and raced the same chassis (a used one), every year I raced. Did I have the best equipment out there? Hell no, but after year 2 I was consistently running in the top 8. Before the track introduced a tire limit rule, several teams' tire bills for the year were higher than what I spent for my whole season for everything. Another driving force for how I raced was this. My family never had to worry about groceries, gas, or food to eat, or a roof over their heads. I've seen that too. I never shorted them or my business. When I bought that used roller, before 1 single part was bought to complete the car, I bought all of my safety gear. No shortcuts there, as I've seen enough drivers' families have to pay for that mistake. A lot of drivers get into racing thinking that they are the next Jeff Gordon. But the reality is that 98% of Saturday night racers have reached their high-water mark. That may sound cruel, but that's accurate. Whether it lack of funds, or talent, that's about it. I got into racing to have fun. Gee, I never worked so hard to have that much fun. For us that are in the 98%, if racing isn't fun, it's time to do something else. I ran my first race at age 42, and did it because I always wanted to. If I wasn't having fun, and made some good friends, then I was doing the wrong thing with my time & money. Did I have enough talent to race at a higher level? I don't know, but my guess is no I didn't. Did I have enough money to race at a higher level, no I am absolutely certain that I didn't, without cheating my family or business. Plus, at the age that I started, not many car owners are going to hire me to drive their stuff. I raced because I loved it, had fun, and made some good friends. That's all anybody should want with their hobby.

[MikePeters95]

12 hours ago, Flagman said:

We took our cars to the Boyscouts Pine Wood Derby and other meetings we could find to let everyone see the cars.

We had some R/C cars that were rapped just like the big cars to help garner interest as well.

This is a great idea.  I'll add that on my radar and try to see if anyone dirt, asphalt, road race, whatever, are doing these things and figure out how we can take a few out there.

[MikePeters95]

4 hours ago, ron.brown11 said:

I raced because I loved it, had fun, and made some good friends. That's all anybody should want with their hobby.

This right here, 100% where the community needs to be to sustain again in my opinion.

[24nomo]

The best way to get outsiders involved is to give away about 200 to 300 tickets per race to people that have never been.   It is important not to give them away to people who have been, or are already paying customers.    Pick different groups, like the Chamber of Commerce, High School Bands, Little League Teams, etc.  People who will come as a group.  You will get some hooked on it.   

[texasprd]

22 hours ago, Flagman said:

We took our cars to the Boyscouts Pine Wood Derby and other meetings we could find to let everyone see the cars.

We had some R/C cars that were rapped just like the big cars to help garner interest as well.

 

10 hours ago, MikePeters95 said:

This is a great idea.  I'll add that on my radar and try to see if anyone dirt, asphalt, road race, whatever, are doing these things and figure out how we can take a few out there.

Cub Scouts do Pinewood Derbies - Cub Scouts are younger Scouts, before they are old enough to become Boy Scouts.  In my experience, most Cub Scout "packs" do a Derby at least annually.   I'm sure every Boy Scout council has a website with a "unit locator" page on it (google "boy scout council" and the name of the nearest, biggest city/town) - if you search the unit locator page for Cub Scout packs, you should find contact info for packs near you.

I was about six years old when I saw my first race car up close - a family up the street and their brother and cousin ran a car in the top class at the old Pan American Speedway in San Antonio, and my brother (about age 14 or 15) was on the crew.  I would walk up the street with him and watch them work on the car, and pretty soon I had to go see what racing was!

As a former Pine Wood Derby race leader, I will say that the time before the Derby starts can be hectic, with kids getting their cars checked and maybe having to modify them a bit (or more) to fit the rules (especially regarding weight!) - but once a kid has his car through inspection, I think it would be great to have real race cars to look at!

 

Re. 24nomo ticket-giveaway idea - give some to radio stations (for contest winnings?), or give them to local businesses that advertise on the stations and have the stations announce that tickets can be picked up at the business (or announce it as part of a commercial).  When I was in Montgomery, AL, the asphalt track there used to do that.  

Edited December 6, 2022 by texasprd

[24nomo]

46 minutes ago, texasprd said:

 

Cub Scouts do Pinewood Derbies - Cub Scouts are younger Scouts, before they are old enough to become Boy Scouts.  In my experience, most Cub Scout "packs" do a Derby at least annually.   I'm sure every Boy Scout council has a website with a "unit locator" page on it (google "boy scout council" and the name of the nearest, biggest city/town) - if you search the unit locator page for Cub Scout packs, you should find contact info for packs near you.

I was about six years old when I saw my first race car up close - a family up the street and their brother and cousin ran a car in the top class at the old Pan American Speedway in San Antonio, and my brother (about age 14 or 15) was on the crew.  I would walk up the street with him and watch them work on the car, and pretty soon I had to go see what racing was!

As a former Pine Wood Derby race leader, I will say that the time before the Derby starts can be hectic, with kids getting their cars checked and maybe having to modify them a bit (or more) to fit the rules (especially regarding weight!) - but once a kid has his car through inspection, I think it would be great to have real race cars to look at!

 

Re. 24nomo ticket-giveaway idea - give some to radio stations (for contest winnings?), or give them to local businesses that advertise on the stations and have the stations announce that tickets can be picked up at the business (or announce it as part of a commercial).  When I was in Montgomery, AL, the asphalt track there used to do that.  

Does anyone have a Radio anymore?   LOL

[texasprd]

Yes.

[RodneyRodriguez]

Radio still very powerful most stations have apps for listeners to check in on, the sports station in Austin I work for has massive numbers from our station app. 

[rebelracewriter]

10 hours ago, 24nomo said:

The best way to get outsiders involved is to give away about 200 to 300 tickets per race to people that have never been.   It is important not to give them away to people who have been, or are already paying customers.    Pick different groups, like the Chamber of Commerce, High School Bands, Little League Teams, etc.  People who will come as a group.  You will get some hooked on it.   

Sonuva......We agree on something again.....I've made this comment to several, got shot down every time....If you give away, say, 100 tickets and get only 10% return, that's still ten new faces....Of course you have to provide a good, well run, timely show too.

[rebelracewriter]

7 hours ago, RodneyRodriguez said:

Radio still very powerful most stations have apps for listeners to check in on, the sports station in Austin I work for has massive numbers from our station app. 

I'd be curious if there was a way to track those numbers for specific times? IE; The Lakefest preview with Stacey from  MFCoC.

[top_shelf_12]

I hear South Texas Race Ranch ads all the time on the radio here in Corpus and yes we still have radios given I work out of a truck 90% of the time and my work truck doesn't have XM and I don't run any apps during work.

[24nomo]

20 hours ago, RodneyRodriguez said:

Radio still very powerful most stations have apps for listeners to check in on, the sports station in Austin I work for has massive numbers from our station app. 

Unfortunately, the radio market is aging and rapidly shrinking as digital social media takes over.  

[Josh42]

12 hours ago, rebelracewriter said:

Sonuva......We agree on something again.....I've made this comment to several, got shot down every time....If you give away, say, 100 tickets and get only 10% return, that's still ten new faces....Of course you have to provide a good, well run, timely show too.

I used to say it on this message board back when Thunderhill was blowing and going that they should get with the 94.7 morning show.  Their producer was a big nascar fan and would go to the races.  Give him tickets to give away and have him come be an honorary starter and he would plug the hell out of the racetrack but nothing ever happened with that.

When CTS put up the stage and had concerts in connection with the races they would have big shows. I remember the night that Randy Rogers played out there after the races there was a few people I knew that that was their first time there and i told them get there early see the races and told them to cheer for Casey as he was running his pro late that weekend.  After that weekend they went to the races when they could and would call me and tell me about what went on that night.

[RodneyRodriguez]

We had a great radio partnership with KOKE in the CTS days, when MA had THR she did great ads on KVET.

[ron.brown11]

When I was still in high school, I got to be friends with a man named Woody Fisher.He and his brother owned Fisher Brothers Distruting, the local Stoh's beer distributor in Cincinnati. He was the first person that I saw run a Petty Kit car. One day he asked what I was doing on the coming Thursday, and said that they were renting the track, and was going to do some set up testing. I got the time to be there from him, and skipped school & work that day. He had formed a financial agreement with a hotshot driver, to help sort out the set up for Woody"s Duster. It was Rodney Combs, who at that time was winning a lot of races on dirt & asphalt in the Midwest. Rodney had a Howe chassis Camaro. Not long after I left Cincinnati, when I went into the AF, Rodney started racing the east cost Dirt Series in a late model. He won a lot there too. After that, he drove Richard Petty's Busch Series car for a couple of seasons. For many years after that, he was a driving instructor for the Richard Petty driving school. Rodney was a really good driver, and he didn't care what the surface was.

Woody was first on the track, running 10-12 laps. He came in complaint about something. So Rodney started wrenching on it, and Woody went out again for another handful of laps. While he was out on track, Rodney finished getting his car ready. Woody came back in, still complaining about the car. Rodney told him to basically have a seat, because Rodney wanted to shake down his Camaro. Plus, he wanted to run the track, to see what the track was giving him. Woody hadn't been racing that long, and didn't know how to feel what the track was giving him yet. Rodney's first 3 laps were quick, then he got serious. He turned the next 4 laps right at the track record. That was the last laps that car ran all day. So after getting to feel what the track had, he made 2 small adjustments to Woody's car. Woody went back out, ran 4 laps. He came in complaining that the car wasn't turning in the middle. Pretty much the same complaint as before. So Rodney got in Woody's car with no changes. In 2 laps, Rodney was running 1/10 second under the track record. He did that for 5 straight laps, then he came in. I was standing next to Woody as he was clocking Rodney. Embarrassed & pissed pretty much summed up the look on his face. Rodney offered to trade cars for the season, and Rodney's car was a brand new Howe with only a handful of races on it. When Woody said no, Rodney told him to grow a pair and drive the car then. Buy the end of the day, Woody was running right at the track record, and still on the same Goodyears that he started the day on. Woody went on to be a pretty good driver. He bought a Charger from the Petty's that Richard had campaigned for a season. Woody won some ARCA short track races, and it turns out, was pretty darn good at Daytona & Talladega. Unfortunately Woody's life was cut short by an illness. Before "Naming Rights' for a race became a big thing, the annual ARCA race at Daytona was called the Woody Fisher Memorial. Woody was a really great guy, and he really loved racing. I hate it that he didn't get to race that long. But I still remember the way he just lit up when he would talk about racing. He really loved it. Think about the racers that you know. How many just glow (not from anger),when talking racing? Those are the people that really enjoy what they are doing. I hope that others saw that in me when I raced, because that's what I felt.

[HiTech]

On 12/6/2022 at 8:00 PM, rebelracewriter said:

Sonuva......We agree on something again.....I've made this comment to several, got shot down every time....If you give away, say, 100 tickets and get only 10% return, that's still ten new faces....Of course you have to provide a good, well run, timely show too.

i agree with this also ..  .it cost nothing to give tickets to those who have never been .. u can only win in the end .. i can tell u frank gave me some tickets to give away  when he was alive and running cc speedway .and rank was a tight wald ... but talked him into 20 tickets ... i know two of them  turned into racers . 1 turned into a sponsor for me and robert .. i know three drivers gave up drinking  to race . two of them we built their cars .. nether one had ever been to a race ... heck my wife had never been to a race till i took her once in 1984 .. and  she helped me buy my first car   the next season  .. and we have never missed a season sense   after 92 i sold both my cars and have helped others sense ..  .. parking a racecar out where its seen is one the  best advertisment around out near major road ways   and such .. alot of poeple  have never been to a race and alot do not even know there is a racetrack around ..  justabout every racers buying gas has had someone come up  to them looking at the cars and asking where is the track .i have and some showed up ... .. another thing alot of folks wont come out when they do not know a racer .....i dont go to a ball game unless i know someone .......

 

[NickHolt]

16 hours ago, ron.brown11 said:

When I was still in high school, I got to be friends with a man named Woody Fisher.He and his brother owned Fisher Brothers Distruting, the local Stoh's beer distributor in Cincinnati. He was the first person that I saw run a Petty Kit car. One day he asked what I was doing on the coming Thursday, and said that they were renting the track, and was going to do some set up testing. I got the time to be there from him, and skipped school & work that day. He had formed a financial agreement with a hotshot driver, to help sort out the set up for Woody"s Duster. It was Rodney Combs, who at that time was winning a lot of races on dirt & asphalt in the Midwest. Rodney had a Howe chassis Camaro. Not long after I left Cincinnati, when I went into the AF, Rodney started racing the east cost Dirt Series in a late model. He won a lot there too. After that, he drove Richard Petty's Busch Series car for a couple of seasons. For many years after that, he was a driving instructor for the Richard Petty driving school. Rodney was a really good driver, and he didn't care what the surface was.

Woody was first on the track, running 10-12 laps. He came in complaint about something. So Rodney started wrenching on it, and Woody went out again for another handful of laps. While he was out on track, Rodney finished getting his car ready. Woody came back in, still complaining about the car. Rodney told him to basically have a seat, because Rodney wanted to shake down his Camaro. Plus, he wanted to run the track, to see what the track was giving him. Woody hadn't been racing that long, and didn't know how to feel what the track was giving him yet. Rodney's first 3 laps were quick, then he got serious. He turned the next 4 laps right at the track record. That was the last laps that car ran all day. So after getting to feel what the track had, he made 2 small adjustments to Woody's car. Woody went back out, ran 4 laps. He came in complaining that the car wasn't turning in the middle. Pretty much the same complaint as before. So Rodney got in Woody's car with no changes. In 2 laps, Rodney was running 1/10 second under the track record. He did that for 5 straight laps, then he came in. I was standing next to Woody as he was clocking Rodney. Embarrassed & pissed pretty much summed up the look on his face. Rodney offered to trade cars for the season, and Rodney's car was a brand new Howe with only a handful of races on it. When Woody said no, Rodney told him to grow a pair and drive the car then. Buy the end of the day, Woody was running right at the track record, and still on the same Goodyears that he started the day on. Woody went on to be a pretty good driver. He bought a Charger from the Petty's that Richard had campaigned for a season. Woody won some ARCA short track races, and it turns out, was pretty darn good at Daytona & Talladega. Unfortunately Woody's life was cut short by an illness. Before "Naming Rights' for a race became a big thing, the annual ARCA race at Daytona was called the Woody Fisher Memorial. Woody was a really great guy, and he really loved racing. I hate it that he didn't get to race that long. But I still remember the way he just lit up when he would talk about racing. He really loved it. Think about the racers that you know. How many just glow (not from anger),when talking racing? Those are the people that really enjoy what they are doing. I hope that others saw that in me when I raced, because that's what I felt.

Ron,

Your story about Woody and Rodney Combs brought to mind a situation you and I found ourselves in at Thunderhill a while back. 

I am not a driver, but I have a pretty good understanding of how suspension systems work and have not been shy in sharing that knowledge with others.  I particularly enjoyed working directly with race teams at their racetracks who wanted to go faster without spending a ton of money.  

Although I worked with many such teams, four drivers stand out as getting the most out of their underfunded equipment by using my physics-based principles in their suspension set ups. 

On the other hand, there were a few drivers I tried to work with who just plain could not drive a race car and would blame their poor performance on anything or anybody.  I won't name any of them here, but I'm sure you recall the THR situation I mentioned in the 1st sentence above as a good example. You showed me a lot when you jumped in that modified and turned some laps that were much faster than those being turned by the regular driver. 

Nick