rebelracewriter Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 My question is, Has anyone here been involved at a track where a claimer rule was used for a long period of time and if so how often was a claim actually made I've been around the IMCA/UMP dirt tracks for years. IMCA uses a motor, shock and carb claim. UMP uses a motor claim with swap option. Numbers? Can't tell you for sure in IMCA. But I can tell you that it works(when used properly). It keeps guys from running 7-10K motors in a modified. They can go to Blaines, or similar shop and pick up a good motor for about 3K. If everyone has the same amount in a motor, then all things are fairly equal and set up, drivers ability come more into play. In UMP you seldom see a claim because of the swap option. Everyone's afraid of getting a motor that's less than they are giving up. Motor costs their have skyrocketed to point of going from 40 cars per track, down to forty cars in the entire Houston area. You can look on the IMCA website for more specific details and prices on claim stuff www.imca.com or the UMP site, www.umpracing.com I've long been a supporter of claim rules---again when used properly. There are provision about some guy with a blown up motor trying to claim and the finishing position in regards to the fourth place car. You'll never totally eliminate grudge claims, so you never want to piss anyone off, which makes for cleaner racing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonSenseRacing Posted April 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 My question is, Has anyone here been involved at a track where a claimer rule was used for a long period of time and if so how often was a claim actually made I've been around the IMCA/UMP dirt tracks for years. IMCA uses a motor, shock and carb claim. UMP uses a motor claim with swap option. Numbers? Can't tell you for sure in IMCA. But I can tell you that it works(when used properly). It keeps guys from running 7-10K motors in a modified. They can go to Blaines, or similar shop and pick up a good motor for about 3K. If everyone has the same amount in a motor, then all things are fairly equal and set up, drivers ability come more into play. In UMP you seldom see a claim because of the swap option. Everyone's afraid of getting a motor that's less than they are giving up. Motor costs their have skyrocketed to point of going from 40 cars per track, down to forty cars in the entire Houston area. You can look on the IMCA website for more specific details and prices on claim stuff www.imca.com or the UMP site, www.umpracing.com I've long been a supporter of claim rules---again when used properly. There are provision about some guy with a blown up motor trying to claim and the finishing position in regards to the fourth place car. You'll never totally eliminate grudge claims, so you never want to piss anyone off, which makes for cleaner racing. The only problem I see with IMCA is in my opinion $525 to claim the engine or $50 plus yours in a swap is not realistic, but I definately agree if done properly it would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonesome Ford Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Aside from the claimer discussion which I personally haven't done enough research to form an educated opinion; what do you all think about common rules between tracks? This was CSR's original topic for this thread LOL. In your opinion, do you think it would be possible to get our area tracks agree to a "penalty agreement contract" which would allow cars of the same caliber race at other tracks? It would take negotiation on both sides but similar classes at different tracks can be made equal w/ just a few minor "tweaks" (ie add weight, change crossweight, or other minor penalties). I know this has been looked at before but disentegrated after 2004. What about trying this route and if teams start racing at more than one track, propose an eventual set of common rules like CSR described earlier. ----------------------------------- www.TxRacersUnion.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kn1ghtblade Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Common rules would be great in my opponion... I mean I am about to build a sportsman class car to run at SAS, but on nights when SAS is off and Thunder hill is running it would be great to take it up there and run, but then rules become an issue!! I am sure some of the thunder hill guys would do the same since SAS has been running earlier than there... eitherway I think it would increase the car counts on both tracks..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonesome Ford Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 <nod>kn1ghtblade : I would definately run at Kyle on SAS off nights w/ my roadrunner. I've even been invited to bring my RR down to South Texas Speedway & play in the dirt. It would definately put options on the table for racers on their regular "off weekends" and add car count to the tracks racing that weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 This is a no-brainer ........................ In the long run it's in everybody's best interest to have common rules ................. the tracks, the racers and the fans. But, right now, there are a lot of racers saying "quit changing the rules all the time!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonesome Ford Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Exactly! That's why an agreement or "penalty agreement contract" could be signed by the tracks to allow racers from other tracks race w/ their local show w/ certain penalties applied to equal them out some. Maybe years down the road eventually common rules can be agreed upon, but everything should be done with the racer's input. As a driver/owner I am tired of being out of the loop when rules are changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Consider this. What if every drag strip had its own set of rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonSenseRacing Posted April 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 This is a no-brainer ........................ In the long run it's in everybody's best interest to have common rules ................. the tracks, the racers and the fans. But, right now, there are a lot of racers saying "quit changing the rules all the time!" Budman, That's why I stated that there would be a two year phase in/out period, all cars currently racing would be legal and grandfathered in during that time . They would get/give weight penalties to help even out the field, then starting in 2009 the tracks would agree to have common rules locked in for 3-5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 For the good of everyone, I hope something can be worked out among the tracks that's agreeable to most of the racers. I feel like I have to walk on egg shells around this topic though. The last time I mentioned anything about it, it got deleted on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonSenseRacing Posted April 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 I feel like I have to walk on egg shells around this topic though. The last time I mentioned anything about it, it got deleted on here. If you have a question that you feel would be deleted PM me and I'll answer it to the best of my ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KISS_Racing Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 CSR and Jr. I've asked this before on SAS forum. I think that Rick has been busy and I believe at one point Nick said that there was a group who was trying to do this... I know that we would probably take the Sportsman to Kyle, we tried once; but it was rained out... Might even try Corpus again, I'll ask to see what the thoughts are. My whole feeling on this is I think that most tracks would entertain listening if someone drew it all out and presented it in a way where it would benefit ALL the tracks... Maybe I'm wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Kiss, That was the thread that got deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KISS_Racing Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Budman, Not sure which one you mean? I asked my question in the middle of the Grand Stock discussion. In all fairness to Rick he has answered all my other questions and in a very timely manner. He may not of even seen my post. Again, I think that the tracks and GM might be open; but it will have to be approached from the stand point of no one feels the their racers will go elsewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Kiss, It was the thread Nick started about .............. (Dare I type this?) .......... TTOPA ............. and working with the tracks in the upcoming year to reach some agreements on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonSenseRacing Posted April 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 My whole feeling on this is I think that most tracks would entertain listening if someone drew it all out and presented it in a way where it would benefit ALL the tracks... Maybe I'm wrong? I agree, I could put together a complete presentation for all the trackS, that’s not an issue. The thing I need from all the people in the racing community is input, the reason I started this discussion was to get other ideas besides mine. This isn’t about the way I think asphalt racing should be run, it’s about exchanging ideas. Looking at all of the ideas and trying to get rid of any loop holes and locking them in for XXX period of time. WE NEED EVERYONES SUPPORT AND IDEAS IF THIS IS GOING TO HAVE A CHANCE OF BEING A SUCCESS, IF YOU ARE UNCOMFORTABLE POSTING YOUR SUGGESTIONS PLEASE PM ME WITH THEM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerjim2 Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 You guys should try and pay for these(common) rule changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonesome Ford Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 KISS - You're exactly correct. It would have to be beneficial to all of the tracks. Guys have their favorite tracks & that's where they are going to race no matter what. If some guys want to race at a different track each weekend, why shouldn't they be able to? That's a huge PLUS for the racers BUT what about the TRACKS? The tracks would have to work together and maybe alternate a "big show" between them for all of the classes once a month. That would at least guarantee one huge crowd a month as fans follow their local favorites to "enemy territory". LOL - just throwin' up ideas...heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonSenseRacing Posted April 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 You guys should try and pay for these(common) rule changes. racerjim2, I'll say this one more time for those of you in the back of the bus, all the cars running this year would be grandfathered for two years. So, it wouldn't cost you any money for the changes for two years, by then I believe you would be buying new parts anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 I'll say this one more time for those of you in the back of the bus, I don't know any of you personally. I have no dog in this hunt. That being said... That statement was uncalled for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonSenseRacing Posted April 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 I'll say this one more time for those of you in the back of the bus, I don't know any of you personally. I have no dog in this hunt. That being said... That statement was uncalled for... Your right, I apologize RACERJIM2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REBELRACER Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 If some guys want to race at a different track each weekend, why shouldn't they be able to? if they want to race at different tracks they should join a touring series...........hahaha it would be cool if thr and sas could alternate weekends off, so a driver could race thr one weekend and then sas the following weekend.........both tracks would reap the benefits.........the only problem i guess would be that sas would have to run more often due to the nascar sanction......it would be cool though to see a driver be able to win a championship at both tracks in a season...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonSenseRacing Posted April 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 In the lower classes, I believe traveling on a regular basis is unrealistic. Common rules allow poeple more options, where they want to race, if they are selling a car someone who wants to race at another track can buy the car and not worry about if it's legal and at the end of the season maybe there could be one or two big races. Touring series have a lot of additional cost that other than the race car prep, but is an option that should be discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tps48 Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 After reading all these posts, It sounded a kinda familiar. Wasn't there a group called START trying the same line? Where is START now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 If some guys want to race at a different track each weekend, why shouldn't they be able to? if they want to race at different tracks they should join a touring series...........hahaha it would be cool if thr and sas could alternate weekends off, so a driver could race thr one weekend and then sas the following weekend.........both tracks would reap the benefits.........the only problem i guess would be that sas would have to run more often due to the nascar sanction......it would be cool though to see a driver be able to win a championship at both tracks in a season...... Danny, that's exactly what I said at the end of last year when we found out that THR was going to a limited schedule. I think the management at THR was hoping for it also, but it didn't happen. You can't blame SAS for staying open every weekend, but I think if the tracks could have found a way to alternate weekends AND agree upon a set of rules, the car counts would be much improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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