Budman Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Can't resist this one! .......... That's right Arts22. ONLY drivers, owners, team members or track owners/officials/promoters should be allowed to post on this forum, because they obviously are the only ones smart enough to do so. All the rest of us are just too damn stupid to post on here, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arts22 Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Can't resist this one! .......... That's right Arts22. ONLY drivers, owners, team members or track owners/officials/promoters should be allowed to post on this forum, because they obviously are the only ones smart enough to do so. All the rest of us are just too damn stupid to post on here, right? Did I mention anything about posting on this forum? Did I call anyone stupid? I asked if CSR had an investment in racing other than taking on the roll of being a track owner/promoter..... Why not WORK for a track owner/promoter and see what their dealing with before you take on their job. By you changing the rules, scheduling the races, it sounds like you are the track owner/promoter. Wasting time on this forum and not going and working with the ones that your acting like isnt doing anybody any good. Before becoming someone why not walk a mile in their shoes. Then you can tell us how stupid we are(racers/track owners/promoters) and how it needs to be done...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonSenseRacing Posted May 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Now your making schedules for the tracks...... Do you have a car/truck, work with a team, or a track? No, the only reason I posted a sample schedule is because I knew someone would ask the question about the possibility of running for two track championships. The sample schedule I posted makes it difficult for any one team to contend for more than one championship, incase of a slight tire advantage, that’s the only reason. I probably should have stated that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonSenseRacing Posted May 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Then you can tell us how stupid we are(racers/track owners/promoters) and how it needs to be done...... WOW, Is that what you think I’m stating, you are so far off base. I’m looking at it from outside the box, just giving an opinion from a different point of view. I don’t know where else you have raced, but I’m under the impression it’s only been in Texas (that’s not a bad thing). Texas seems to be more focused on dirt racing than asphalt, where as the east coast has more asphalt racing than dirt, not better, not worse, just different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 I've been around race tracks and racers off and on for 51 years now. I've picked up a little of it along the way. I want ALL racers and race tracks to succeed! With regard to CSR's post of his schedule, it obviously is a sample schedule. He's done a lot of hard work on this for FREE. I suggest you accept it as that, graciously. I have no idea who CSR is or what his background is, but his heart seems to be in the right place and he's got some good ideas, if you read what he has to say. I think he is as genuinely concerned about the well being of short-track asphalt racing in Texas as I am. Right now, that isn't looking too bright! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonSenseRacing Posted May 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Thank you BUDMAN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonSenseRacing Posted May 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Just read that the USRA SLM series adopts Five Flags Speedway and Mobile International Speedway Rules, common rules for the SLM, way to go Rick!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arts22 Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 CSR, budman, This past off-season they tried the "common rules" deal, they met at THR several times and tried to work together and for whatever reason they didnt agree on crap..... They are not going to work together and they have their own reasons.....why not work with what you have and try to build off that? Why not become an intern(working your ass off for FREE) for a track owner/promoter and then youll see not only outside the box but also inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonSenseRacing Posted May 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 CSR, budman, This past off-season they tried the "common rules" deal, they met at THR several times and tried to work together and for whatever reason they didnt agree on crap..... They are not going to work together and they have their own reasons.....why not work with what you have and try to build off that? Why not become an intern(working your ass off for FREE) for a track owner/promoter and then youll see not only outside the box but also inside. Your right, they tried common rules last year, your also right it failed! I don’t know why it failed, but it did. This tread has been viewed 2900 times, that tells me there is interest in it. Maybe the owners didn’t think people wanted it, this tread could be that little push the owners need to go back to the table to discuss common rules again. I’ve stated before, the reason I wrote a set of common rules was to have a starting point that’s independent, people have found oversights and mistakes that I’ve made in the rules. The rules are a work in progress and even if it helps only a little bit, how could that be a bad thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arts22 Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 "Maybe the owners didnt thinking the drivers wanted it".... Do you really believe that? It had nothing to do with the drivers. Horse told you and I said the samething. Go work for a track and then you might see whats inside the box. THEN youll get to know the drivers and what they want and know what is going on with the tracks themselves..... If you honestly want to help, ACTIONS speak louder then words... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonSenseRacing Posted May 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 If you honestly want to help, ACTIONS speak louder then words... I guess you've never heard the statement, the pen is mightier than the sword! So, these post don't count as action? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 "Maybe the owners didnt thinking the drivers wanted it".... Do you really believe that? It had nothing to do with the drivers. Horse told you and I said the samething. Go work for a track and then you might see whats inside the box. THEN youll get to know the drivers and what they want and know what is going on with the tracks themselves..... If you honestly want to help, ACTIONS speak louder then words... The negotiations went a long way toward unified rules, at least between SAS and THR. The following are examples of rules that "came together" between the two tracks in the SS/Sportsman classes after the meetings: Lowering blocks now allowed at SAS Adjustable shackes allowed at both tracks Adjustable spring shackles allowed at both tracks 2101 intake allowed at both tracks Motor changes at THR to allow the SAS cars to compete Ford rear end allowed at SAS Mini spool allowed at both tracks. I'm sure there are other examples. The fact is that the negotiations seem to have halted when the difficult (expensive) rules came up i.e. heads, cams, carburetors. The above items are relatively cheap. Somebody was going to have to give in and cost their drivers a lot of $$ when the motor rules were examined in order for the rules to be totally uniform. My theory is that the respective track officials stood their ground and tried to take up for their drivers when the tough topics came to the table. I may be completely wrong, but if I'm right, I bet the negotiations would have gone further if they knew the majority of the drivers were OK with it. If, on the other hand, the respective tech people were operating with the understanding that their drivers would not appreciate being force fed a new upper end on their motors, it makes sense that the negotiations would stop at those rules. Input from the teams/drivers IS important in these discussions, but only if given in the right way. cs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arts22 Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 If you honestly want to help, ACTIONS speak louder then words... I guess you've never heard the statement, the pen is mightier than the sword! So, these post don't count as action? Maybe you should take up politics.... Have the tracks started working together and are they using common rules? NO...... I dont think a Texan would carry a pen to a sword fight... My bets on a gun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonSenseRacing Posted May 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 I dont think a Texan would carry a pen to a sword fight... My bets on a gun... That's low, using the Texan card! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Nobody is beating anyone else over the head for the immediate adoption of this rules package. Just consider it a resource to be utilized or drawn upon at some future date if or when the promoters decide the concept is desirable. Until then it can simply be "banked" on here, totally free of charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProTree Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 race tracks want their own rules so they can have a product, plain and simple- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonSenseRacing Posted May 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 race tracks want their own rules so they can have a product, plain and simple- I guess I see it from a different point of view, in my opinion all race tracks have the same product, racing is the product, the cars are a byproduct. I’d love to use an analogy with drag racing, but I’m not that familiar with the classes. I do fell comfortable saying that the majority of people couldn’t tell the difference between a SAS street stock and THR street stock. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Racing is no different than any other business. You offer your customers a quality product and they will come, and be willing to pay a premium price for it. If you don't, they won't. It's that simple. Is this a quality product? Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 or this ................ Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arts22 Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Racing is no different than any other business. You offer your customers a quality product and they will come, and be willing to pay a premium price for it. If you don't, they won't. It's that simple. Is this a quality product? Link Its apparent that you and Mr East Coast can run a facility and series ALOT BETTER then the folks that are doing it. SO BUY A TRACK AND SHOW US HOW ITS DONE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted May 15, 2006 Report Share Posted May 15, 2006 No need to get defensive. Ultimately, we're all on the same side here. We all want what's best for everybody in asphalt racing.........................Good racing with decent car counts for the fans, good purses for the drivers, racing cars that are not too expensive to build, race and maintain, and a fair profit for the promoters/owners. I wish I had the secret formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonSenseRacing Posted May 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2006 Its apparent that you and Mr East Coast can run a facility and series ALOT BETTER then the folks that are doing it. SO BUY A TRACK AND SHOW US HOW ITS DONE. Again WOW, I never said I thought any of the promoters were doing a bad job. Have they made mistakes, yes, everyone does. Unfortunately, you seem to be one of those people who like to point those mistake out over and over and that nothing will ever work, because this or that didn’t work in the past. I think the promoters are doing the best they can with what they have to work with. That’s not an insult, car counts aren’t going to improve overnight, the shows aren’t going to improve until the car counts improve. Everything takes time, to me you are a big help, your negativity towards everything that has been written here has made more people interested in the subject. The more people that view this tread and become interested in it, the strong the voices say, COMMON RULES. For that I say THANK YOU ARTS22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arts22 Posted May 15, 2006 Report Share Posted May 15, 2006 Again, BUY A TRACK AND SHOW US HOW ITS DONE....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted May 15, 2006 Report Share Posted May 15, 2006 <<<<<<<<<<< One of these days, I'm going to figure out how to quote somebody on this thing! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Having said that ..................................... Chase, This is in response to you latest post where you describe the impasse reached by the tracks in their "common rules" negotiations. That certainly sounds like a plausable description. Let's assume for a moment it is essentially accurate. How can the parties overcome this seeming impasse? First, there must be a commitment on their part TO overcome it. Second, they must define their goals. They must agree among themselves precisely where they want to get to. They must do this from the outset. Third, they need to come up with a set of incremental "tweaks" to their rules. This needs to be set out in a schedule, with the changes taking place over several off-seasons in order to minimize the financial impact of the changes on the car owners. This will produce sets of rules that are increasingly closer together each season, until they become essentially identical. Fourth, they must reach firm agreements with each other (whether its two, three or four tracks involved) to implement the rule changes in accordance with the prescribed schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonSenseRacing Posted May 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2006 <<<<<<<<<<< One of these days, I'm going to figure out how to quote somebody on this thing! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Having said that ..................................... Budman, hit the quote button and then write your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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