COMMON RULES

[CommonSenseRacing]

The purpose of this tread is to exchange ideas about common rules ( pure stock, hobby stock and street stock) to benefit the asphalt racing community in Texas. One of the main ideas is to build up the car counts over the next 5 - 7 years by establishing common rules that would be implemented and stuck to for 5 - 7 years. Also, allowing someone who is interested in building a pure stock to eventually move up into either a hobby stock or street stock division without having to sell their current car and start from scratch. There would be a lot more involved in writing a set of common rules. These were just some of the ideas that came to mind, in addition to the existing rules.

 

Basic ideas for common rules;

All four asphalt tracks accept common rules.

The rules grandfather the existing rules for these divisions phasing out the old rules by the end of 2009. Weight penalties or weight breaks would have to be applied to even out the field until the 2010 season.

The rules stay fixed after 2009 for the following 3-5 years.

Have claimer parts like IMCA in the lower classes, but with realistic dollar amounts (not $525.00 for an engine).

Allow for inflation for cost on claimer parts, shocks, engines, etc.

Make the rules progressive from pure stock, hobby stock, street stock and the trucks.

Pure stock, hobby stock and street stock all have a minimum wheelbase of 108.

Pure stock and hobby stock divisions do not allow mustangs, camaros and novas or any other type of sports car.

Pure stock and hobby stock use the same short block and cam,

Pure stocks use cast 2 bbl intake with 172 intake and 150 exhaust, 79 cc smog heads

Pure stock engine $1,000 claimer

Hobby stock use cast 4 bbl intake with 194 intake and 150 exhaust, 76 cc heads

Hobby stock engine $1,750 claimer

Pure stock and hobby stock use exhaust manifolds

Pure stock and hobby stock use stock mounted racing shocks, $65.00 claimer.

Pure stocks use factory springs and hobby stocks are allowed racing springs

Pure stocks have a roll cage, but no additional front or rear bracing

Hobby stocks are allowed additional front or rear bracing

Pure stock and hobby stock engine and transmission mounts are in the stock location

Street stock and trucks have the same engine rules, allowing drivers who want to move up into the truck division, the first level of a touring class in Texas, to do so without having to start from scratch.

Street stock and truck engines $3,500 claimer

Ford and Mopar street stock and trucks are allowed Ford 351 and Mopar 360 and stroker engines up to 350 cubic inches.

Street stock and trucks that run chevy’s are allowed 2.02 intake and 1.72 exhaust, 64cc heads with an aluminum intake.

Street stock and truck headers $150 claimer

Street stock and truck engines #1 spark plug with the ball joint for chevy’s and the front of the head for the Fords and Mopars.

Street stock and trucks are allowed one jacking bolt per wheel

Street stock and trucks are allowed to relocate the shocks, claimer $85

 

Please feel free to add to them, agree with them, disagree with them or make your own up. If you have constructive comments please post them, your fellow racer might agree with you and unite to help improve TEXAS ASPHALT RACING.

 

BASHERS WELCOME , JUST DO IT CONSTRUCTIVELY SO YOUR OPNION GETS READ NOT DELETED.

[poorboy]

That is a good start. Some of the stuff you mentioned for SS is what we do at CC.

[PAPA]

Just curious...why a min of 108"WB?

[CommonSenseRacing]

Just curious...why a min of 108"WB?

Papa,

 

Most street stock rules that I have seen use a minimum wheelbase of 108”, the reason I picked 108’ is so a racer could built a pure stock and use the same car as he moved up to a higher division. Many tracks use 112” wheel base cars for their pure stock and hobby stock division and as we all know the re-sale value on a stock car s#cks. This allows racers to built a car and grow without having to start from scratch with each division.

 

Hope that answered your question.

[thrss1]

i like all but the claimer part

[CommonSenseRacing]

i like all but the claimer part

Would you mind sharing what you don't like about the claimer parts. Is it the amount? I really would value your imput.

 

I used $3,500, because a in my opinion a street stock and truck engine shouldn't cost as much as a late model crate engine.

[thrss1]

lets say that cary stapp or bobby teer the two fastest in the street stocks the last couple of years get claimed by someone that only runs a few races a year and is not all that competitive to begin with. you would be punishing them(stapp or teer). i have never liked the claim rule. i know it is meant to keep competition close. but the slower guys should do their homework and get faster like the fast guys.

 

other than that i am glad you started this thread.

[tqj3]

I have no opinion on what the rules should be, but it strikes me that this thread or one like it would allow the racers to argue back and forth over the rules until they come to some sort of concensus.

At worst, it can get some ideas aired. At best, it could almost hand the track owners and managers a complete set of rules already agreed upon by the drivers and potential drivers.

[CommonSenseRacing]

lets say that cary stapp or bobby teer the two fastest in the street stocks the last couple of years get claimed by someone that only runs a few races a year and is not all that competitive to begin with. you would be punishing them(stapp or teer). i have never liked the claim rule. i know it is meant to keep competition close. but the slower guys should do their homework and get faster like the fast guys.

 

other than that i am glad you started this thread.

I’m also not a big fan of the claimer rule, that’s why I tried to use $$ amounts that are realistic. This way if someone claims the part, you could go buy a new one and it eliminates the one off specialty parts in the lower divisions. That’s also why I didn’t list a claim for a whole car, this way the fast guys could keep their secrets.

 

As far as the engines, maybe I didn’t ask the right question, let me ask you this, what do you think is a fair dollar figure for a street stock and truck engine?

 

I don't know if $3,500 is fair or realistic that's why I'm looking for other opinions.

 

Thank you about the comment about the tread

[thrss1]

i dont know how to say this with out sounding rude. any kind of claim rule is for the birds (jmo). if the fast guys have parts that the slow guys cant afford then maybe the part should be illegal. if driver A wants to get as fast as driver B maybe they should get to know the other and maybe they will help them with set up or driving tips. i just dont like any part being claimed. i dont care if it is a lug nut, motor or a entire car. the only exception that i can see to a claim rule would be a spec class where all parts are supposed to be equal like allison legacy or if a class like houston late models where they all run a gm crate engine then a claim/ swap i would not have a problem with.

[thrss1]

maybe instead of a claim they could protest the part and you have to let them know exactly what you are running. as far as dollar amounts on engines i honestly cant say what it cost to build one. i am fortunate enough to have that sponsored.

[Crazyhorse]

4,000 ...............the last street stock engine we had build was around that figure. BUT i do not feel we are competitive with it now..BUT like thrss1 said , how could i blame them for doing their homework.

if your not getting beat by motor your getting beat by shocks.etc etc.. or whose to say it's not just sheer driving ability? you put some guys in anything and they are fast , on the same token put the other guy in 1st class stuff............well you can't polish a piece - and so on - you get the point.

3700 for a gm crate ( in the truck)..........the truck series , with TECH is this most equal , competitive class going (right now)- with TECH........because of allowed affordable options. JMO

[Truck99]

OK, I'll say it...I'm not convinced that common rules are the answer to the survival of our tracks. For the most part, cars aren't trying to go from one track to another, they are just being parked. Common rules will allow a guy who is pissed off at one track to race easily at another track, but that's not a new car to anyone, just a retread. What we need is for the cars that are currently sitting in garages on jackstands to be brought to the track. I don't think common rules is what it's going to take to fix this. The idea of common rules has its benefits, but I don't think it's the pill to cure our current ills.

 

As far as the claim goes, I don't care for it. A good tech man will negate the need for claim rules. But I'll say this, we'll take $3500 to claim our SS motor any day. We've NEVER spent that much on a SS motor. Now if you're talking $3500 for the entire motor, carb to pan, that's a different story, but most claims don't work that way.

[CommonSenseRacing]

i dont know how to say this with out sounding rude. any kind of claim rule is for the birds (jmo). if the fast guys have parts that the slow guys cant afford then maybe the part should be illegal. if driver A wants to get as fast as driver B maybe they should get to know the other and maybe they will help them with set up or driving tips. i just dont like any part being claimed. i dont care if it is a lug nut, motor or a entire car. the only exception that i can see to a claim rule would be a spec class where all parts are supposed to be equal like allison legacy or if a class like houston late models where they all run a gm crate engine then a claim/ swap i would not have a problem with.

Don’t worry about sounding rude, I don’t take it that way. The point I’m trying to make is that if that fast guys are fast because they’re outspending the competition, buying parts that are unreasonably expensive for an entry level class, then they should be racing in a higher class. The whole purpose about this tread is to examine different ideas for the entry level classes. That’s the reason I didn’t include any ideas for the mods and late models.

 

The issue I have with the allison legacy cars, is it’s a great spec class, but you are not getting in one for 3 - 4 thousand dollars. The Houston late models may have a spec engine, but they aren’t regulated to a spec chassis. I also believe that class will disappear with in two years, because of the pro late model series.

 

Again I understand no one likes having their parts claimed, but if is helpful to the overall sport, wouldn’t you at least consider it?

 

P.S. I saw you run your car at HMP, your engine sponsor is doing a good job.

[CommonSenseRacing]

4,000 ...............the last street stock engine we had build was around that figure. BUT i do not feel we are competitive with it now..BUT like thrss1 said , how could i blame them for doing their homework.

if your not getting beat by motor your getting beat by shocks.etc etc.. or whose to say it's not just sheer driving ability? you put some guys in anything and they are fast , on the same token put the other guy in 1st class stuff............well you can't polish a piece - and so on - you get the point.

3700 for a gm crate ( in the truck)..........the truck series , with TECH is this most equal , competitive class going (right now)- with TECH........because of allowed affordable options. JMO

That’s might point, last year the number was $4,000, this year it will be $4,500 next year $5,000. I believe regulating the $$ amount spent could only be a benefit to local racing.

 

I appreciate it if you would post any suggestions you may have and also I’m curiuos how much is a good truck engine going for this year?

[Lonesome Ford]

This thread is a good start to something that is going to help local racing here in Texas. As long as we as teams, owners, & drivers can discuss, compromise and then present our ideas to the powers that be; we stand a good chance of actually being heard. Individually we really don't have a voice, but together we cannnot be ignored. There are a bunch of great ideas in this thread already, lets keep 'em comming.

 

JMO - common rules are a good idea in the long run. They are something that will not be agreed upon over night or even before the start of next season. What we can make clear first and foremost is the constant "changing" or "tweaking" of the rules on a yearly basis is what is costing the racers money now. I for one ( and I've seen others mention it on other threads and other websites) would like to have a guarantee on the existing rules through at least 2008. A 3-5 year rules guarantee in these classes would encourage bringing existing cars back as well as building new cars. How do ya'll feel about a rule guarantee for your class..... no matter what class you're racing in?

 

Since this thread was started, I might as well throw this tidbit of info out. ** see link **

 

http://www.txracersunion.com - Now....... We're not getting together to bash owners, operators, etc. We're not going to strike, hold up picket signs, or air our dirty laundry in public. TxRacersUnion.com and the organization, Texas Racers Union (TRU) was formed to work with the promoters, owners, & operators of area tracks to increase car count, get more fans in the stands and thus... improve our sport of auto racing in our area. Membership is not neccessary and everyone's opinion will receive equal treatment and consideration for presentation to the particular track they support.

 

As I mentioned above, we are in the very early development stages and need these ideas to keep flowing. I hope to get an official meeting together sometime before the end of April. If anyone is interested feel free to email admin@txracersunion.com or PM me here or on TXR (the other site). I believe it is time for us; the ones who are truely making the show what it is, to have input on what we'll have to spend money on next.

[CommonSenseRacing]

OK, I'll say it...I'm not convinced that common rules are the answer to the survival of our tracks. For the most part, cars aren't trying to go from one track to another, they are just being parked. Common rules will allow a guy who is pissed off at one track to race easily at another track, but that's not a new car to anyone, just a retread. What we need is for the cars that are currently sitting in garages on jackstands to be brought to the track. I don't think common rules is what it's going to take to fix this. The idea of common rules has its benefits, but I don't think it's the pill to cure our current ills.

 

As far as the claim goes, I don't care for it. A good tech man will negate the need for claim rules. But I'll say this, we'll take $3500 to claim our SS motor any day. We've NEVER spent that much on a SS motor. Now if you're talking $3500 for the entire motor, carb to pan, that's a different story, but most claims don't work that way.

Never said they were the cure for all the problems and you’re right, guys in these classes aren’t traveling, but it would be nice if at the end of the year there were one or two big races that guys could run if they wanted to without having to spend money to make their cars legal. Also, it would make your car more marketable if you wanted to sell it, because you would have a bigger pool of people that could potentially buy it.

 

As far as guys getting pissed off and going to another track, that gives the drivers leverage, they would have options instead of being stuck, options are always a good thing.

 

You’re also right about all the cars sitting on jack stands, from posts that I’ve read a lot of those cars are on jack stand because they keep changing the rules, hence the 5 -7 year lock in of the rules.

 

Regarding the claim, any and all suggestion are welcome. A good tech guy is important, but I remember reading a post a few month back by TOMMY33 “it's pretty cut and dry-spend what you want to build a grand stock, it's your $$$-doesn’t matter if you spend $500 or $5000,when it rolls of the trailer, it's worth $800. Have a few engine claimed and you’d be surprised how fast guys will stop over spending in these lower classes.

 

JMO

[CommonSenseRacing]

Also, if you post please add your thoughts on additional ideas that you feel need to be addressed.

 

 

[PAPA]

I like what Im reading here. As many of you know, Ive been trying to get the Fords and Mopars back on the track. This is a very good start to doing just that. Racing now days involve lots and lots of money. And its going to cost even more as the years go by. If we can all agree on a set of rules and lock them in for 3-5 years(or whatever) people will not be so afraid of building cars. CSR, if there is anything I can do to help you get this thing rolling please let me know. I am retired so I have alot of free time. Lets keep this going before we lose anymore cars and tracks.

[Lonesome Ford]

Ok, we have an active post concerning the 3-5 year guarantee or "lock" on the current rules. We have the poll running currently on TXRacing.com. I have contacted Nick for a poll to be started here and am waiting for a reply. I understand there are people who aren't happy w/ some of the rules the way they are now, but we have to look at it in a realistic way. The rules aren't changing just because some racers want them to; however, if we can get a 3-5 year guarantee on the current rules I believe cars & trucks will return and others possibly built. This would definately be a good move. If you have a different view on the matter & think something needs to be changed before proposing to "lock" the rules, post it in the forum w/ the poll. If you have other ideas about what could be changed for the better, please voice them there as well.

 

Maybe an agreement on penalties between tracks for drivers who want to race at more than one track will be more feasable than common rules <shrug> Just an idea.

 

We're not bashing anyone in these threads, we're trying to stimulate legitimate and intelligent conversation about the state of racing in our region. There is always room for improvement and who better to help improve than the racers/teams/owners of the teams competing. Those of us involved thus far are looking forward to working with everyone to improve & grow racing here in south texas.

 

So let the ideas flow ya'll, lets get some good serious discussion going. This thread's topic is Common Rules, I'll release custody of the thread now

[Neal Rogers]

Sure....... ill let you claim my 305 that had over $5500.00 put into it for 3500.00. Thats a good one!

 

If i wanted to run a class with a claimer rule, i would run a bomber car on the dirt, a grand stock or SOME OTHER ENTRY LEVEL CLASS. Bet you would like to see a claimer rule in nacscar too.

[PAPA]

Neal

Im not trying to be a smart a$$ by asking you this.....Do you have a better idea? Im not real sure about claimer rules either. But I can see that it might work. What is your suggestion? Im sure you will agree that something needs to be done with the rules. Thanks

[arts22]

Instead of a claimer rule.... Why not have rules for every aspect of the car and enforce them.... A good tech-man and good set of rules with stiff penalties....

[USRA23TRUCK]

GOOD POINT HELL LETS MANDATE THE SIZE SWAY BAR AND SIZE SPRINGS AND SCHOCKS YOU CAN RUN. STRAIGHT ACROSS THE BOARD. PROBABLY NOT A GOOD IDEA BUT IT WOULD MAKE FOR AN INTERESTING RACE. THERE IS A LOT SOMEONE CAN DO. I JUST DONT HAVE ANY ANSWERS. ILL JUST GO WITH THE FLOW.

[Neal Rogers]

Claimer rules should be for entry classes. Such as the ones I have mentioned before. I have no problems with the truck rules. The truck series is a fairly ecomonical series to get into. As far as the Hobby stocks to super stocks i dont know the rules. But if you cant afford to move up to the next level of racing, then dont do it. Just because some one knows a few tricks about how to get a few extra ponies out of thier bullet, doesnt mean that they are cheating and dumping thousands of dollars into thier motors. At the racing level of the trucks, mods, and superlates a claimer rule will never be an issue! JMO