Houston Latemodels Sanctioned by ASA

[supertx]

Crate engines are the way of the future like it or not. Today racers doesn't car about going faster they care about putting on a better show more side by side racing, more WRECKS ,fan and promotors like crashes just like Daytona and a Talledagea.Just like common sense racing has in his post the back markers will still be back markers everybody that has been around this sport for anytime knows that it's in the handling. So I agree with crate engines if your going to build classes that bunches the cars up with inexperinced racers that can get into SLM now because of engine cost you might as well go slow where you don't kill anybody.

[lendo38]

In my opinion, stock car oval racing ought to be about the driver's with the better abilities and the crews with the knowledge of great set ups that win races. That is what makes it a "team sport". If it all comes down to who knows how to cheat better, or who has enough money to make more horsepower out of their engine so they can "drag race" away from the field in the straightaways, the racing is just not as good for anyone to watch. On an amateur or semi-pro level racing like most of us are doing here, the crate motors and parody parameters allows for more cars and better racing for all levels of skill of the "teams". I still think that the cream rises to the top, they just do it together with a miriad of variables better than the rest.

 

It remains to be seen exactly to what level, but the 400 crates are going to be pretty fast. The average fan will have a hard time telling the difference. Hopefully this will allow more people to get teams together.

[ups88john]

thanks for clearing that up speedracer.

 

big john

[rusty_krusty]

thats right supertx crate motors are the way to go these days whether you like it or not. [edited out by Nick Holt, 12/18/05]

[jp17]

Am I missing something? I haven't read where USRA is allowing much less mandating a crate motor in the slm series.

[SASPEEDRACER24]

J.P. at the last USRA race this year at SAS 'Fall Brawl' James Boucher ran with a crate motor with a weight break... I was under the assumption that it was a test to see how well it would work out for the 2006 season. Since the rules are not out other than Nick Wayne or Terry really know but I would assume next year it will be an option for those willing to run it.

[Budman]

>>>>>

[leland]

Crate engines are the way of the future like it or not. Today racers doesn't car about going faster they care about putting on a better show more side by side racing, more WRECKS ,fan and promotors like crashes just like Daytona and a Talledagea.Just like common sense racing has in his post the back markers will still be back markers everybody that has been around this sport for anytime knows that it's in the handling. So I agree with crate engines if your going to build classes that bunches the cars up with inexperinced racers that can get into SLM now because of engine cost you might as well go slow where you don't kill anybody.

If you give some of these [back markers ] the same horse power they will be in your face racing for the win instead of so called in the way,,,,,waddy

[supertx]

lendo38

 

Don't you believe that an engine builder is part of a team anybody can buy the same parts its how you rub on them to make them fast experience just like crew chiefs.

 

Leland

Some is the key word there Leland.Some you could give twice as much H.P. and there still going to be in the back.

[leland]

amen brother,,

[McCrum]

Wow, very nice. You can tell it's offseason when topic turns to bashing "backmarkers."

[NickHolt]

Actually, this thread has been one of the most interesting (and civil, so far anyway)threads about a very important topic facing the racing community.

 

Nearly all the points made in this thread have surfaced in one form or other during the research Wayne and his team completed in preparing to write the 2006 rules for all the touring series.

 

Keep up the good work, TXSZ members!

 

Nick Holt

[lendo38]

supertx,

 

I do agree that everyone involved in a team is important. I could not live without even one of my guys. I did not mean to imply that the engine builder is not a part of the team. That is a good point.....touche'

[CommonSenseRacing]

Don't you believe that an engine builder is part of a team anybody can buy the same parts its how you rub on them to make them fast experience just like crew chiefs.

A Cup Team’s engine builder is part of the team, since everyone on the team receives a paycheck and works for the same organization. Engine builder are important, but I doubt your crew chief receives a paycheck from you for the work he does. Over the years the cost of a good engine program has sky rocketed. The crate engine is a way to theoretically reduce cost and tighten up the competition. Taking the emphasis away from out spending the competition in the HP department to win.

 

There’s an old saying that says;

 

20% of my money is spent to get 80% of the HP, the other 80% is spent to get the extra 20%. That 20% is the difference between being a front-runner and a middle of the pack car. Or you could just say speed cost money how fast do you want to go!

 

1. 400 HP = $5,000

2. 585 HP = $25,000

 

My wallet, knows the answer!

[Jason]

3. 590 HP = $14,000....sealed motor

 

Then you can't forget about the way SUPR does their motor... I think Larry Bendele is correct in his opinion on adopting rules more similar to CRA. I bet 2006 USRA SLM rules are a big step in the right direction when it comes to options.

[Budman]

Seems to me something has to be done about the cost of racing super-lates. There has been a steady decline in car counts over the last few years. If the trend is allowed to continue, NOBODY is going to be racing super-lates before long.

[arts22]

lendo38

 

Don't you believe that an engine builder is part of a team anybody can buy the same parts its how you rub on them to make them fast experience just like crew chiefs.

I dont see how an engine builder is apart of a team, you pay him big bucks to build your motor, your team works on the car/truck because they love the sport not for money, atleast most teams...

 

Supertx, we all see and understand your views and points about slm's, but sometimes you have got to look at the bigger picture........ Was the Snowflake race a bad race? Someone came from 22nd up to the top five, thats passing a few cars.

[REBELRACER]

I dont see how an engine builder is apart of a team, you pay him big bucks to build your motor, your team works on the car/truck because they love the sport not for money, atleast most teams...

 

thats a good point.........most engine builders also do work for other teams (your competition).........a team member would be someone who has a common goal as you..........an engine builder's only goal is to give you the very best of what you paid him for..........jmo

[supertx]

If you look at the top of the page I agree with the crate motors to a point.We will see how many engine builders are going to be your best friends and team member when the crates come to the series.These motors all do NOT make the same HP ,there is as much as 40 HP different between the engines [ PRI mag.Sept.] So who do you guys think are going to get the best motors from the engine builders that are chosen to be the rebuild centers the ones you have bashed or the ones that are your friends.Now all of you that say its about the pay check for engine builders what about crew chiefs like Denny Burton,or set up and race cars services from guys like JC Upshied [sorry JC about the spelling] and theres a few more that I can't think of right off hand. You guys know that most engine shops have aleast a half million dollars in equipment and thats on the low side for a true race engine shop so ya there going to have to make alittle money.This doesn't make any difference if its crate engines or all out race engines.The reason most race engine builders are in this bussiness is because we like to compete aganist other racers and engine builders so go tell your engine builder how sorry he is and he or she is just out there for a check that will go over real well.

 

McCrum

I am not bashing backmarkers some of the people are just having fun and don't care where they run.But then there the folks that don't do anything to there cars tell they get to the race tracks thats the people you can give a fuel motor to and they still will be in back

[CommonSenseRacing]

If you look at the top of the page I agree with the crate motors to a point.We will see how many engine builders are going to be your best friends and team member when the crates come to the series.These motors all do NOT make the same HP ,there is as much as 40 HP different between the engines [ PRI mag.Sept.] So who do you guys think are going to get the best motors from the engine builders that are chosen to be the rebuild centers the ones you have bashed or the ones that are your friends.Now all of you that say its about the pay check for engine builders what about crew chiefs like Denny Burton,or set up and race cars services from guys like JC Upshied [sorry JC about the spelling] and theres a few more that I can't think of right off hand. You guys know that most engine shops have aleast a half million dollars in equipment and thats on the low side for a true race engine shop so ya there going to have to make alittle money.This doesn't make any difference if its crate engines or all out race engines.The reason most race engine builders are in this bussiness is because we like to compete aganist other racers and engine builders so go tell your engine builder how sorry he is and he or she is just out there for a check that will go over real well.

You’re absolutely right, crate engines won’t solve all the problems, it might not solve any of the problems. Although if you have the same problems and it saves thousands of dollars per team it is a step in the right direction.

 

Regarding the engine builders equipment cost, you act as if one builder builds all the engines for the SLMs and that’s all this builder does. Business is constantly changing, if you don’t change with it you go out of business. You can’t blame someone for building a better mousetrap and taking business away from you. Example, Block Buster and Hollywood Video put the mom and pop video store out of business, now internet video stores and video on demand is eating into their profits. That’s capitalism!

[97car]

Just a thought,what about just a spec distributer with the same rev-limiter chip set at 6300 just like the crates are required to run.Yes the distributer may cost a little,but it would beat having to send a engine in or buy a new one when you have problems.

[lendo38]

After reading all of the rules announcements, I am sure it is obvious to most of us that the track promoters have been listening to us. How awesome is it that for the most part, and with a little change here and there, we can build one car that can compete at all of the tracks in a number of different series. I believe it can also be very competitive. I am sure a crate might even win a race this year (especially at HMP)

 

I am really appreciative of the commitment of the promoters to give us what we asked for. It is now our turn to show up in big numbers and see how it works.

[supertx]

commonsenseracing

 

I have no problem with changes in the engine bussiness it is a new opportuinty for engine builders.Theres a good chance there's going to be more PROFIT in crate motors for engine builders.Engine builders won't have to worry about making max power we won't have to spend hours up on hours and thousands upon thousands of dollars trying to find more power and trying to make engines live at 9000 rpm.Heck crate engines are nothing but a Mexican built production engine that will turn 6000 rpm if you have a good one.We don't have to worry about guys that have no clue how to tune or if they have fresh fuel.Dyno work ,just to check for leaks put them out the door.CAPITALISM damn right there's a new market ,fixed shop rates won't change just easier work and less stress for the engine builder If you think crate engines are going to level the playing it's not the fast guys are still going to be fast and the back markers are still going to be in the back.MERRY CHRISTMAS

[CommonSenseRacing]

commonsenseracing

 

I have no problem with changes in the engine bussiness it is a new opportuinty for engine builders.Theres a good chance there's going to be more PROFIT in crate motors for engine builders.Engine builders won't have to worry about making max power we won't have to spend hours up on hours and thousands upon thousands of dollars trying to find more power and trying to make engines live at 9000 rpm.Heck crate engines are nothing but a Mexican built production engine that will turn 6000 rpm if you have a good one.We don't have to worry about guys that have no clue how to tune or if they have fresh fuel.Dyno work ,just to check for leaks put them out the door.CAPITALISM damn right there's a new market ,fixed shop rates won't change just easier work and less stress for the engine builder If you think crate engines are going to level the playing it's not the fast guys are still going to be fast and the back markers are still going to be in the back.MERRY CHRISTMAS

SUPERTX,

 

So now you can take that extra time and money you will save and take a vacation to Mexico to visit the new GM factory they must have built to produce the crate engines. As far as tuning does, last time I checked it was oval track racing not drag racing. Isn‘t chassis set up the most important part?.

 

Regarding the slow and the fast guys, your right someone always has to win and someone always has to lose, maybe now the guy who comes in last in a 50 lap race won’t be 3 laps down. That in itself is a step in the right direction.

 

One last thing, crate engine racing has been growing in popularity throughout the country, I doubt that would be the case if the engine were junk.

 

Just for you felice navidad

[jp17]

I’m still a bit conflicted about this whole crate engine deal. It’s an idea that seems to be gaining momentum and attracting a lot of attention which I suppose in and of itself is a good thing. Personally I’m not jazzed about totally eliminating the gap between those who have done their engine homework and those that haven’t though. Granted I don’t compete in a series that rewards or even allows $25,000 motors but the partnership we have with our engine builder is a vital part of our program nonetheless. Over the years we’ve gained enough knowledge to have a top notch package but it certainly hasn’t come from throwing lots of money at it. Our motors are competitive as a result of lots of research and trial and error. If we do have an advantage I feel it’s something we’ve earned rather than bought. I really enjoy the whole process and something will definitely be lost when buying a new motor becomes as mundane as a trip to Wal-Mart. A crate motor will cost me about $6000.00 by the time I pay the governor his share and that will be far and away the largest check I’ve ever written for anything engine related. Crate motors aren’t of very good quality yet will still cost about the same to freshen as the motors we have now. I’m wondering when and where I’ll save any money.

 

On the other hand you just can’t say enough good things about the Bakers. Aside from being terrific folks they have the foresight to recognize and capitalize on a thriving trend. I now have an attractive opportunity to regularly race in the same city I live in, something I haven’t been able to do since 1999. HMP has guaranteed a purse structure that is second to none and it’s not a big leap to imagine the class will be a success. SAS has also made accommodations for these cars and I imagine that THR will make some arrangements as well Now ASA is making Texas appearances so it sure seems the “crate model” is here to stay.

 

When I parked my late model last November it was exactly the right kind of car to have, capable of running up front at any weekly show or TSRS event. Now suddenly it is exactly the wrong kind of car to have and I’m going to need to spend about $20k on a new car, accessories and motor in order to have that same flexibility in the future. I’m having a hard time affording all this affordability. Shame on me for not seeing it coming sooner. jp