CommonSenseRacing Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 I just read the HMP press release and OMG, let’s start yet another LM class. They barely have enough cars for a heat race in that division on most nights. Wouldn’t make more sense to convert over to the 400 HP crate engines by 07 with a weight break for the cars with the 350 HP crate engines in 06. Instead of another LM class they should have started a street stock or hobby stock class. As for the modifieds they had a good class and ran them off, do you really think these guys are going to buy a new crater motor and take the chance of getting screwed again. The more things change the more they stay the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lidllarry Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 Now maybe they can break each of those classes down into two seperate classes, one with 8" and one with 10" tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishracer Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 Sounds like there are several people out there with the voice of reason tallking and the others trying to protect their investment in their slm. As I have voiced before, I believe the main reason for the lack of car count in Texas in general is that the economy in this part of the country can not afford a large base of slm cars. Its not to say that some day there might be a place for it, but for today's economic environment in this state, it just doesn't make dollars and cents. Ask yourself why alot of the pro's that were racing the old ASA series are now running ASA latemodels or Hooters procup. These guys are business people who look at the dollars and cents. The barrier of entry to the USRA today is not driving skill, its pure dollars and the number of people without it way out number those with it. It does not mean that the those without are any less a driver and would give any of the current slm teams a run for their money. A skilled driver and team with a equal engine setup will make themselves shine when they consisently win more than those who sink cubic dollars into their engines. What blows me away are the people talking about the follow the leader racing and yet also complain when someone consistently blows their doors off or when 3 or 4 well funded teams run off and hide form the rest of the pack. Its almost like 2 political parties that fight so much it gives the voters apathy and nothing gets done. If the sanctions in this part of the country( be it tracks or touring series) do not make a decision to make asphalt racing more attractive to both racers or fans, say goodbye to it. The problem is that the have's have always had the biggest voice and the tracks/series have always not wanted to take a chance and loose what they already have, and right now its not much. The formula is very simple, but yet it eludes most tracks and series here. More cars=better show=more fans=more income Only in this order Business is a gamble, if you never try, you never will succeed. But treat it like a full time business not a part time. This thought process goes for both racers and sanctions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonSenseRacing Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 Fishracer, I hope you don't mind if I adjust the equation, uniform crate motor rules for all the local tracks = higher car counts = more money for the tracks = better racing = larger fan base = more money for every aspect from purses to parts suppliers, except for the motor builders. Another alternative is to forget the motor rules and run on hard compound tires with chips in the MSD boxes. Horsepower today is cheap, it’s the motor rules that make it expensive. If you can’t put the horsepower to the ground it’s useless, at the end of the race check the tires with a tire durometer to keep guys from soaking the tires. HMP, THR and CC horsepower isn’t as much of an issue as it is at SS, there you can really see how strong sum of these motors are. Forget TMS, guys who have a separate motor or car just for that race really should go run either a Hooters or an ARCA car and get some exposure instead of wasting your money on one race that is not even televised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lendo38 Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 fishracer, I think that what you are saying is true and is what many others have said on this topic. I really don't care what the issues are, if we do not get united on our racing, people are going to stop coming. SAS is a great 1/2 mile track with great speeds that make racing exciting. HMP is a beautiful facility. It has all any fan could want in a local racing facility. What it is missing is good racing to give the fans something to do when they are there. I have been a spectator before and was bored; and I love racing! What makes good racing is high car counts. It doesn't matter if you are racing Bandolero's or Super Late Models. There seems to be a tremendous ego associated with big horsepower and it is somewhat understandable. It still must come down to economics for both the drivers and the facility owners. I have been on this site trying to get opinions from other late model drivers and fans and I have been passing this information on to some people I know that have the ability to do something about it. I think that we have a great opportunity right now to get this thing on the right track. Even if it takes a year or so to perfect the finer details. If everyone will be willing to give just a little, we might be able to put together something fun for people to watch, and fun for us to compete in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishracer Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Legends, you hit the nail on the head. Some of it's ego, some of it selfishness and some of it down right lack of respect for the sport. If you look at some of the veterans that are running in the slm, they started with nothing worked the low buck ranks, worked on their chassis when they had no motor and won races, yet some of them forget. It sometimes reminds me of my dogs around the food bowl, 1 of them not letting the other ones eat and biting at them if they get close. You know their is alot of knowledge and experience that goes with putting together a fast slm car and it costs alot to gain that knowledge and experience, and rightfully these teams are aprehensive about any change that will dilute these investments. But for the good of the future of asphalt racing they have to acknowledge that cost reductions in power plants is a positive thing and give it their blessing by supporting whatever cost reductions are implemented. The only reason I could see that they would not was they might feel that it is their only advantage on the track. I challenge them all to prove to the racing community this is not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lidllarry Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Hey fishracer, The problem with cars is in the Late Model Weekly series. Why dont you lay off the SLM's. Why do they need to lower their standards? The SLM are not a weekly show, they have plenty of time to fix their stuff between races if it is not up to your specs in durabiltiy TRY SOMETHING NEW FOR A CHANGE, DONT CHANGE ANYTHING. With 9 cars and 150 people in the stands, you might want to work on your own series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supertx Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 I ask the question again how many people do you know that have a race car that is sitting waiting for crate motors.You can race what you can afford or you can bitch about what other people spend.First off it's not all about what you spend look at Heath Stweart almost no budget but his team gets out in the shop and works there a-- off and won the slm championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lidllarry Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Supertx, you have got that right. Races are won in the shop, no the shopping center. There is a proven engine for $5,000 and proven cars for $20,000, it time to buy or quit bitching about the price. If that does not fit your budget, you dont need to be in s SLM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leland Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 my opinion on good racing for the fans is high points cars start in rear, lots of passing , lots of action, and lots of fun.. it don,t matter to me because i always start in the middle of the pack when we qualify,(tsrs) but i think it is better for the people that pay to get in, i know the slm,s are a different thing all togther, and they are running for a lot more money, but you have to admit its hair on the back of your neck to see a car busting thru the field to get to the front and i think we run enough laps to make it possible , happy holidays folks waddy not trying to advocate anything for me personally but just relating what i hear from people in the stands, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arts22 Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Supertx and Larry, how much money does an "almost no budget team" use throughout the season? lets say they have there $20k car and there $5k motor. How much money will it cost them to run a full 15 race season? Again I think the slm's should be left alone, I thought they had a good car count for 2005, you always want more but it was a good count compared to others...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lidllarry Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 If you have to worry about it, it is too much. Go have fun, take care of the equipment the best that you can, and that is all that you need to do. Someone else is in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arts22 Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 If you have to worry about it, it is too much. Go have fun, take care of the equipment the best that you can, and that is all that you need to do. Someone else is in charge. Good out!!!! You should run for governor....... I just thought you had all the answers to a low budget team, but I guess your not sharing your knowledge. Thanks anyway.....lol.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supertx Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 Arts 22 I will share with you a few things that will help keep your cost down.One start off with new good quailty parts you get what you a pay for in racing equipment.Maintence is the number 1 thing put your car up on stands after race and nut and bolt the car look for bent and used up parts remember its cheaper to buy a ball joint then it is to tear up a race car.Engine keep the oil changed look at the filter or oberg, see something in it fix what ever it is better than a blown motor, run the valves every week see alot of lash find out why you've got a problem. Don't believe the trick of the week it will break you trying to keep up buying parts get the most out of what you have.The last one is don't over run your parts yea there expensive but everything will wear out after to many cycles it cheaper to buy a set of rods than it is a new motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arts22 Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 Supertx, Amen..... We do all of that and some. We have our PM lists on the walls and we date everything after it is checked per race, we scale before and after the races, we always take all of our readings and keep notes on all of the our changes, etc. The cars/trucks are never setting on the wheels, always on stands. Preventive Maintance is the most important thing for a racer to do, atleast in my book..... What I was getting at about the expenses was that several people have stated that you can be competitive on a very low budget. Its just funny to me how they call some of the SLM teams low budget, there is nothing low budget about a slm. They might be low budget compared to other SLM teams but not other series around here..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lidllarry Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 arts, You are comparing apples to oranges. An average SLM team budget is small change against a NCT, Busch or Cup series average budget. Within each series there will be big budgets and low Budgets among the teams. It does not do any good to bad mouth the series you want to race in because of budget situations. Try applying good business practices to your race team. Your budget should be fixed around the amount of sales. The sales are the sponsorships on the car. Big sponsors, big budget. Small sponsors, small budget. No sponsors, no budget except for quality hours in the shop with your best friends. Like it or not, your budget is a reflection on someones SALES ABILTITY. The catalyst behind this hobby/business is sales. Nascar has just signed a Billion Dollar deal with TV, so obviously they believe in the value of the sport. There is a market for high-end racing, there would not be a Billion dollars being shelled out if there wasnt. Instead of complaining on here, try making sales call to a potential sponsor. The Rousch and Hendrick guys have full time Marketing (glorified salesmen) hammering every day. The sponsors do not just mail checks to them, someone is getting it from them. The next time you are feeling a little down, just look at the BILLION DOLLAR deal just completed, there is room for high end racing. The success or lack of it is in the regional racers/owners hands now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lendo38 Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 lidlarry, I agree with your arguement about the budgets being everyone's own personal responsibility. The issue I have with sponsors is simple, and I feel that a number of things contribute: I bring customers of my business to the track as our guests every race. It costs me about $1,000.00 per race just for the gate. Most of our customers have a great time. Especially the new ones to racing. When I meet with them afterwards, I try to get a feel of what they as fans liked and disliked. Most of the time it is the good racing (#'s of cars)that they enjoy. We have good racers in Texas, they just need to be on the track together to bring up the counts, them more people will come to watch. The issue I have with getting good sponsors is the exposure that they get (or don't get) for their money. When there are 7-8 cars per class racing, and 150 people in the stands (1/2 of which are family of racers) there is not much to offer to someone who would be willing to sponsor. If you are wanting to build a SLM, you need money. Which comes first - the chicken or the egg? This is one reason that I was excited about the announcement about the ASA for Houston. It would have brought a level of recognition that could have "jump started" this interest for some sponsors. I still agree it is each individuals responsibility to get the sponsors for their teams if they need the financial help. Some guys just need the boost for the level of expense we are talking about. We are going to step up our sponsor program for next year and have some things planned to offer them outside the race track. We are in essence having to spend money to get financial help from sponsors. In the end, it will be worth the investment. Hopefully as we have all been discussing, the promoters will give us the facilities and opportunities to come together to make good shows which will start this ball rolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt15 Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 Hey fishracer, The problem with cars is in the Late Model Weekly series. Why dont you lay off the SLM's. Why do they need to lower their standards? The SLM are not a weekly show, they have plenty of time to fix their stuff between races if it is not up to your specs in durabiltiy TRY SOMETHING NEW FOR A CHANGE, DONT CHANGE ANYTHING. With 9 cars and 150 people in the stands, you might want to work on your own series. Maybe because there are several deserving drivers out there that should be in the slm but cant afford it lil larry. Keep raising the standards on slm and that will be the class you will be watching with 9 cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lidllarry Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 Colt, There are thousands of deserving drivers that could run with the best of them in Busch or Cup. It is infortunate that all deserving drivers cannot race where they deserve to race. It takes a complete package, skill, work ethic, marketing, luck, politics. If you have the skill, why not work on the other things. You never know, you may be the next lucky one. The ratio of people making as a driver are about 1 in a million. So who is raising the standards? To put it in simple shop/driver terms, it is the responsibility of the driver to secure the required financing to race at the level he wishes to race. It is not the obligation of the series to change rules to meet your budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyhorse Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 It is not the obligation of the series to change rules to meet your budget. if the car counts are suffering........then they would be smart to re - rethink their theories.... it is the obligation of the series to put on a good show if they're concerned about their budget...... i'm not saying by in means that understand the ends and outs of running a series or track , but i do know about building what you can afford to race.......and i know that when watching a race i would rather wacth a race with 25 cars than one with 9 cars........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arts22 Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Larry On all my replies I have asked YOU, since you obviously know everything there is to know about running on an "Almost no budget" SLM team, what the amount is. The only thing I have said about the SLM's and there series, is that they had good car counts and they shouldnt change because that is the ELITE series...... NOW, your not talking to Nextel Cup, Bucsh, or Craftsman truck series teams, your talking to your Average Joe racing teams in the Great State of Texas. Were not racing for million dollar contracts, were racing because we love the sport. Since you have the insight of how to run a SLM team on a very limited budget, PLEASE enlighten us..... WITH FIGURES......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lidllarry Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 For a consulting fee, I can do that. My fees start at $30,000. I can make the books look however you want, show a profit or hide losses. ENRON educated me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arts22 Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 For a consulting fee, I can do that. My fees start at $30,000. Is this a new consulting business? If so I might have an advertisement/sponsorship opportunity for you. I'll give you alil sales pitch. Here goes......... Have you ever wanted an inside look at how your company can use Motorsports to boost sales? A fact known throughtout the Motorsports industry is that the casual spectator, the ardent fan, as well as the participants themselves are extremely loyal to companies who buy advertising space on racecars. From the giant speedways of the Nextel Cup to the simple dirt sprint car ovals that dot the American countryside. Racing attracts people of all ages and income levels. It appeals to young and old alike and its almost universal appeal has made it the fastest growing spectator sport in the country. (Larry this is your part) The huge popularity of auto racing has created equally huge marketing opportunities for the many companies that have become associated with it. These companies were quick to realize that the huge crowds attracted to auto racing offers an unprecedented opportunity to increase brand awareness for there products. It would be impossible to sponsor some of todays more popular racing teams at any price, but there are still exciting opportunities to participate in the explosive growth of this popular sport. Harris Racing can put your company's name infront of thousands of people every week as a sponsor for one of Texas' most exciting racing series..... Larry I could keep going but I dont want to give away all my proposal..... So, the amount (almost nothing) for your company to advertise on my racecar is $55,000..... I'll take your consulting for $30k and the $25k in a cashiers check...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lidllarry Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Sounds intersting. Can you send your plane to get me so I can tour your shop facilities? Please stock the plane with pretzels and Diet Pepsi and someone cute to serve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arts22 Posted December 11, 2005 Report Share Posted December 11, 2005 Sounds intersting. Can you send your plane to get me so I can tour your shop facilities? Please stock the plane with pretzels and Diet Pepsi and someone cute to serve it. We are a VERY low budget team. We cant afford a plane. But we have been known to take the REALLY big potential clients out to HOOTERS..... BTW: "sounds interesting", I was really looking for "ENTICING"....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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