SAS & THR from Brian

[abrungot]

This article was written in the off season for my "Home" Track in NH....

http://www.racewaymedia.com/article5292.html

 

This is about not managing the racing economy in Texas…

 

Break it down with Supply and Demand…

If you race every weekend… for say 25 weeks… one can say.. I can catch up on what I missed next week.. got to do the kids baseball game…

 

If you raced every other weekend… 13 weeks… one would say if I don’t go tonight.. I won’t see racing for a month!!! I best go see racing..

 

You are better off having more fans come every other week then less fans come every week.. Why…

 

Cost… Purses.. Electricity.. Staff…Insurance.. Many others…

 

 

Now from a driver’s perspective:

Cost to run 4 races 1 each week of the month.. *(Example don’t hang me)

Two Tires per week… $225

Fuel per week 10 gal @ $5.25 $52.50

Tow.. 70 miles 1 way… 12mpg.. $2.15 fuel = $25

Admission 5 people $115

Total for one week.. $417.50

Total for one month.. $1670.00

Street stock purse to win all 4 races.. $1400.00

Loss $270 per month.. *(remember Example)

 

Now Run Every Other week..

Cost $834.. *(Better for my wallet)

Purse.. Better attendance.. = higher Purse.. $800 Winnings… won both..

 

Loss for month $34…

 

Which is easier to Swallow.. not to mention you don’t miss your kids stuff.. wife is happy you don’t live in the garage quite as much…

 

I think this is one reason right now that the Trucks/TSRS are doing so well on car count...

 

Sorry for the Novel..

[NickHolt]

The issues that Brian has raised -

 

1) what should the relationship of the local tracks to the regional touring series look like?

 

2) what should the relationship of the local tracks to the other tracks look like?

 

3) and a related subject - what is a legitimate touring series?

 

- are just too important to drift off into other, less pertinent subjects.

 

Let's stay on track (pun intended) here and not let this thread become a series of well-intentioned posts on how to run a race track.

 

Nick Holt

[fishracer]

Brian,

 

I can sure do see how you could be frustrated as a business owner trying to make a living. The dynamics of racing in this part of the country sure has changed in this part of the country in the last 20 years. One of the observations I have made is that unlike yourself, most of the track management or track owners seemed to have had a part time mentality. What I mean is that, from the outside looking in it seemed like most of them had a regular job and did not devote a whole lot of time to the business part of running a successful venue. Usually preparation started on thursday or friday and sponsorship came from either the beer distributors, soda distributors,oil distributors or someone related to a particular race team. Again I am talking in past.

 

Now that everyone has awakened to the fact that the overhead of a facility and classes must be kept in check, now the employees (the racers) have scattered. Kind of like the oil patch right now, they just have plenty of business but no employees. You ask what is the simularity. The simularity is that both the racers and the oil patch workers got burned or burned out. Now before you promoters want to hang me, hold on a minute. Let me explain:

 

As the cost of racing has excellerated the pay outs have not kept pace, yet whose responsibilty is it to control the cost of racing. The racers (LOL). Most of the track promoters/owners have in my experience not been very technical people, therefore they rely on somenone else who maybe has been a racer or involved with a race team, or better yet still involved with a race team to write a set of rules. Most of the time in years past the rules for several classes at multiple tracks mirrored each other. You say why, maybe because other tracks raced on different nights. Maybe because there used to be some big races that brought all the cars together for some nice money and fellowship. Maybe because parts and cars were able to be sold to other tracks drivers, also back then the track owners usually saw the benefit to not try and canabalize each others teams. But you know what, if you ask someone why,the normal response was" because the other guys do it." Most rules are MONKEY SEE, MONKEY DO. and usually not because they are good.

 

Its the long term responsibilty of the rules governing body to control the cost. Make the rules for the economy not for the few that scream the loudest or want to spend their money on the latest parts they see in circle track magazine.

 

The number one thing that needs to be controlled is the engine, what is the number one thing that keeps a racer from the track, parts in the machine shop not in the car. Why are they in the shop, blown motor. Why is the motor blown, too much hp for the parts that the majority of the people can afford. How do you control this, restrict the rpms and you help the racers make the show more often. Now first thing out of a promoters mouth is crate motor. Wrong. Most racers do not buy or assemble a motor all at once. Its like the old song, one piece at a time.

 

Hey lift rules are ok, but restricting the air flow is the key. Get rid of the the 500 carbs or if they run them put a restrictor plate on them. Example, Irwindale speedway one of the most successful and hardest working short tracks in the country, their top class super latemodels(weekly) they are basically the same as a USRA latemodel but with one exception, their cars have 500 2bbls with restrictor plates. Now I can here the racers already I already have these parts" and now I have to go out and buy a new one." Its for their own long term good.

 

Hey if they do not like that put them on even skinnier tires. Hell 20 years ago we ran 750cfm q-jets but on 78 series tires and had 35 car mains. Then they went to 70 series and the next year their were 25 cars and so on and so on. The problem is that the engines have not changed that much the quality of the tires have and therefore they have more traction and transmit it to the drivetrain. Hell stock rearends held up nicely back when the tire did not bite. So did cast cranks etc. Although I am not saying run these parts again, just showing how the tires have changed.

 

Help the racer save as much as you can on their investment, and you will have consistent car count. Hell why do you think dirt tracks have so many cars, NO TRACTION=LESS BLOWN MOTORS=MORE CARS.

 

The fans in the stands are not sensitive to the motor under the hood, if all the cars run farely equal and there are alot of them, thats a show. The racers are the sensitive ones, usually not for their own good. Overheard one of the long time super latemodel racers asked why they did not come race as SAS for the Nascar points fund, I kid you not, their response was "its too limited, I can't use the money and knowledge I have to win".

 

Build your upper classes from your lower classes, let them take their most expensive parts with them to next class.

 

Lets say your lowest class weighs 3400lb has stock suspension, no weight jacks, open rear end, lift rule cam, ride height rule and performer intake and 350cfm, carb 8"tire.

 

Your next class has stock suspension, weight jacks, external shocks(WELDED BEARING STEEL BODY) locked rear end, and same motor and weighs 3200lb, same wheels.

 

Your next class weighs 3100lb stock type clip fab frame aftermarket body 10" tires same motor.

 

Your super latemodel class all tube chassis 10" tires mini clutch 58% left side weight 2800lb- same motor. Each class will have about a good second or better between each and the racers will be going faster with power to weight, not more power. The plus is ease of teching for officials and the racers can spend their money on making their rides look better and making the show more often.

 

 

Quality time. A lot of racers just do not have much. Touring is a way to run for points and still have some time for moma and the kids, maybe a weekend at the coast or lake,etc.

 

Make your race teams your marketing arm, hey if they feel good about what they are doing and their costs are in check. They will be your biggest cheerleaders. MB

[jracer98]

tsrs started basically because a whole class of competitive cars at one track were dropped.

was the same thing basically true with the pavement modifieds?

Jay

[racerx]

Now Aaron, that was a novel...yours was just cliff notes...but what fish says makes sense...

[abrungot]

Nick.. i don't think i was off track... nor did i hit a wall...

 

1) Didn't touch..

2) Can't have one series all the time.. Example.. (USRA 3 times in 1 season Good)..

( Pro Sedans 8 times in 1 season bad) Might as well call them a local class..

3) Must have resonable car count.. and fan base.. and low cost

Whats reasonable.. 16 - 28 cars...

 

 

It is hard to get demigraphics on who attends a race for a touring series or regular classes.. but that is the only way to tell what is the right decision..

 

Let the #'s do the talking..

[tqj3]

Aaron-

The only reason it's bad to have the TPS there eight times is that nobody knows what they are or when they are coming. It's really a pretty neat series.

[turbotoddie]

Howdy guys

 

Just wanted to add a little more opinion to fishracer's post. First, I agree with what he is saying for the most part except the motor needs some allowance to differentiate the classes. I think allowing the shortblocks, maybe longblocks, to ascend through the ranks is best. Carbs, intakes, distributors and rocker arms are easy to sell.

 

But, as for fan appeal. The nonweekly attendee is looking for the Nascar connection. Step out of the box and think about someone you brought to the track for the first time. They expect Texas Motor Speedway. Huge crowds, fancy bleachers and manicured lawns. They are looking for the shiny cars, the big wrecks, the big sponsor names. Not a bunch of cars that look like they have been through the ringer. Unfortunately, this is extremely difficult to make happen with a weekly program. It takes time, money and help. Everyone says the drivers need to garner sponsorship, but most drivers are working on their cars or are not confident in soliciting for this. I would suggest the tracks help(not do the work) drivers to find sponsor leads, prepare for sponsor solicitation and share the track's plans to allow the driver to speak more confidently in what the future has to offer for their money. I wouldn't think it would be a conflict of interest to solicit sponsors as a team, the track and the car. Worst case, sell a race and include a car for a night.

 

I know this places much of the burden on the track but, I believe if the cars are sponsored, the count increases resulting in more fan participation which results in the track more able to garner sponsorship as well.

 

my .02, because that is all I have

 

turbotoddie

Todd Farris

[Definitive]

Brian,

 

The touring series do hurt the individual tracks ...if they don't find a way to work together...mostly in marketing.That is why most tracks try to attract the big shows...i.e...your October 1st show.

 

Work with the USRA please...and see what the future holds.Most of the racers are traveling because of some conflict they had with their home track.

 

The touring series can help the individual tracks by doing things like USRA is doing with the HMP latemodels.This would also work with bringing new kids to the track by incorporating things aimed towards them in their upcoming advertisements they are planning for next year.(I do get it Aaron).

 

Could USRA come up with a farm program through the four tracks they run at?Maybe you need certification from those tracks showing the experience you have earned towards running with those series.

 

I guess what I am saying and what I am thinking is ...there has to be a way for Brian and Owen to channel their frustrations for the betterment of their tracks.They just need to keep thinking and communicating.

 

I have watched racing in South Texas since 1981.I have seen it prosper and struggle.Most of the time it has been a struggle.If the track promotors keep doing what they always have,then that's all they will ever get.If the touring series don't help them out,they will not have a place to race.

 

Keep on racin!!

[Budman]

Colgate,

 

Wasn't picking on you personally. It's just that you are the last in a long line of guys I've seen on here who say "somebody" needs to reopen Longhorn for this reason or that.

Ya'll make it sound like it's as simple as finding the key to the lock on the front gate, and "bang", your in business. Well, it's not quite that simple. Truth is, if there was money to be made there, it WOULD be open this Saturday night, and "Somebody" would be running it.

 

The facts are, it's a losing proposition. One of the last races they held there in '98, the promoter offered a $1000 to win Late Model night. Four cars showed up. As much as many of us "loved it in its day", its dead. Let's go ahead and bury it right here and now.

[NickHolt]

Nick.. i don't think i was off track... nor did i hit a wall...

 

Aaron,

 

I was not refering to your post. In fact, while I was writing mine you were posting yours, so I didn't even read yours before I posted mine...

 

Nick

[tqj3]

Ahhh, sounds like an Aaron and Costello routine: who's posting first?

[marc200mph]

After reading all the different opinons I guess I will give mine.

 

Back in the late 70's early 80's most tracks only had a couple of classes maybe 3 at the most. (example: Top class: Sprints, late models or Modifieds, then 2 support classes, street stocks, mini stocks)

 

Now when you go to a track there could be 6 to 8 different classes running: Late models, Super late models, sprints, super sprints, limited sprints, modifieds, limited modifeds, mini stock, modified mini stock, legacy, legends, it goes on forever.

 

I will use dirt track racing as example, just because I have proof, I was there. Dirt Modifieds used to run at all local tracks, same rules at every track, each track had 20-30 cars a night on a regular show. Then put on a big show one week end! over 100 modifieds show up, why? Uniform rules at all tracks.

 

Take the WoO, a Sprint car was a sprint car, the touring series, WoO would have maybe 12-15 drivers that toured, showed up at a track that run sprint cars all ready, you add 15 cars on the touring series plus the regular track cars..30-40 car count.

 

My point is now we have to many options for drivers, to many classes. we have cut the car count down by having to many classes, then not only that, one tracks late model rules is not the same as another tracks late model rules.

 

A Touring series is great, WoO used to do great with car counts, when they run tracks with the same type cars. Now tracks have different rules, which mean when the touring series comes to town, no car count support for the series.

 

To many classes, less car count for each class. No unform rules for tracks or touring series, no support from local weekly racers.

 

Sorry so long, just another opinon from an old racer.

[rebelracewriter]

Hasn't some untrained, no talent, less than an intern reporter, posed this scenerio once before........and got his head torn off for his thoughts?

[97car]

The promoters should take lessoons from Bo Rawdon,120 plus cars and over by 11 with 20 to 30 cars in most of the classes. Starting at 7,heats over by 8.SAS has tried the engine proposition and hasn't gained that many cars from it.98 the same track did the same to the asphalt modifieds and did not do anything to encourage their growth after the first 2 Octoberfast races.On top of this the touring series do help with the tracks by giving them something diferent instead of the same old show every week with only 30 to 40 cars max.The shows need the variety,being honest ther are and have been several good shows at the tracks down here and there are several good drivers,but south Texas racing is missing the excitement that I saw weekly in the DFW area especially in the 80s.The shows need to be in a timely manner,when one class takes the checkered at Cowtown the next race is rolling to come out on the track.Put the latee models and the limited latemodels on the hard old EC82 tires again that should limit traction.

[jracer98]

98 the same track did the same to the asphalt modifieds and did not do anything to encourage their growth after the first 2 Octoberfast races.

Thanks 97 and to rookie49 .

 

So the answer to my original question of how did the "recent" touring series get started is (at least for tsrs and tams) that they were asked to leave the weekly show.

 

I would guess that some of the displaced "orphans" got together to try and create a situation where their cars could continue to be raced instead of just parked/junked.

 

Ironic...going from being cast offs to being the greatest threat to Texas pavement racing in just a few short seasons.

 

jay

[jp17]

Heaven knows without Brian and those like him racers would be in a heck of a bind. What I don’t understand is why all the mystery about the source of touring series. Track owner/operators themselves (past and present) are directly responsible for the proliferation of virtually all Texas touring series. Cases in point:

 

USRA aka ROMCO aka TIDA started when local tracks eliminated the class and was then bolstered when Houston Speedway eliminated it’s Late Model class

TSRS: filled the void left when SAS eliminated Super Street Stocks.

TAMS: filled the void when SAS and Houston Speedway eliminated the class

ARTS: started largely when HS and THR eliminated their planned truck classes

Allison Legacies: started when Houston Speedway eliminated purse structure

Legends: started when Houston Speedway eliminated purse structure

 

It would seem that when a track eliminates a class of car, racers are expected to fall in line and obtain a new car that the track does run. Racers are angered that the car they have and like isn’t welcome at that track they have supported anymore and further aggravated by the fact that their pride and joy is now virtually worthless. A core group of racers gets together, picks an acronym and a touring series is born. Before long they are booking dates with the same track owners that told them they couldn't bring their cars back which is all they really wanted to do in the first place. No disrespect intended Brian but from where I'm sitting knucklehead track promoters (yourself excluded of course) are primarily responsible for virtually all Texas touring series.

 

Now then, are series a bad thing? Obviously from my limited perspective the answer is no. TSRS allows me the opportunity to race frequently but it is not all consuming. More importantly I am part of an organization not just a participant in an event. I like that. If the number of registered cars for all series combined were compared to the number registered for the weekly classes I think we’d find I am not in the minority.

 

I applaud the dialog and cooperation between series and promoters and tracks. I think we’re all headed in the right direction. jp

[Guest HMPFlagman]

Who owned Houston Speedway when all of those changes took place?

[Budman]

Bryan,

 

I want to thank you for coming on here and sharing your views from your unique perspective with all of us. It has led to an informative and spirited discussion on all these matters from many different points of view, which after all is what this forum is supposted to be all about. I don't know that any definitive conclusions have been reached, but at least we all have seen a lot of different view points and opinions. This promotes mutual understanding of the various issues facing short track asphalt racing now and in the future. This is a good thing. Again, thanks.

[ProTree]

it's 1:10 in the morning and i just got in from the race track and all i got to say is-" this S#*% is getting good"

[jp17]

HMPFlagman: "D.B." [edited out by Nick Holt, 6/16/05]

[SVCMNGR1]

On second thought, let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place.

[KISS_Racing]

Tommy33, I'd have to agree to a point. Back when I helped out Murillo we used to take his car or Anna Marie's car out to Alamo. After a while or should I say when Mike's Black Coupe went into the 10's Mike bought a trailer. Ok back to the point, I have to agree that from the stand point of a drag car to a asphalt/dirt oval car there is a difference when it comes to budget. Maybe as much as $3,000 to $20,000 dollars in difference, but not everyone starts off in a Super Late Model. Again, I agree with your point and I can see where drag racing is more appealing.

 

ART22, Your bringing up some good points. I think it's up to the track owners/management to cover their local guys as far as priority when it comes to race dates. But when the touring series' come into town, don't get upset when the crowd attendance goes up; then down the next week because (TAMS,USRA SLM & TRUCKS, TPS and Others) have gone down the highway... I have gone to CCMS, HMS, Thunderhill, SAS and even Irwindale California to watch the trucks race. My point is that many people follow the series they are involved with. Your crowds will go up & down.

 

I wanted to commend SAS for opening up the track to practice today, I know that Bryan has opened Thunderhill this year. I dont know about Owen? You guys keep up the good work and THANKS FOR LISTENING!

[Rookie49]

GOOD POINT IN YOUR LAST POST JRACER IT IS IRONIC. YOU TOO JP17 AS FOR YOU MR. REBELRACEWRITER, UNLESS YOU HAVE HAD MORE TRAINING AND ARE BEING PAID FOR THIS INPUT, YOU NEED TO KEEP IT TO YOURSELF. WE DON'T NEED ANYMORE UNTRAINED, UNEDUCATED, LESS THAN INTERN, UNEXPERIENCED PEOPLE'S OPINIONS OR INPUT. YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT BY NOW. BY THE WAY I HEAR THAT TQ IS ON A BLIND OR DRUNK MULE MAPPING OUT THE PLAN THAT WILL SOLVE ALL OF RACER'S PROBLEMS. OF COURSE THERE WILL BE A NOMINAL FEE.

[REBELRACER]

and a press release to follow...............lol