SAS & THR from Brian

[Guest Brian L Callaway]

The problem with asphalt racing across the country is not the competitiveness between tracks, it's not the cooperation between tracks, and it's not a Friday versus Saturday show. Less than 10 years ago, as I was building Thunder Hill, Bruce Stark and myself were standing on the top of the hill and he was discussing starting a new truck series. The year before that the Dwarf series was started, and noone had ever even heard of the Legends. Now, we have Mini Cups, Legacys, Baby Grands, Asphalt Modifieds, and I am sure many more that I would not be able to think of while writing this. My question to everyone out there is if none of these series had ever started, would these racers be in a street stock, super stock, late model, limited late model or any other class that THR or SAS currently runs? The only ones I can remember are the TIDA Late Models and the TIDA Pro Sedans...as far as racing on asphalt went 10 years ago. I am certain there were others and that someone will surely remind me about them. All of my racing at that time was not entirely in Texas, but those are the only two that I remember before the Dwarfs. So, there again, where would the rest of the racers we have today in all of these series be racing if these series had never started? As someone who attempts to make a living in this industry, it is really hard when I see 20 % of other short track owners losing there business in the last 2 years - not because of the compitition from other tracks - not that many tracks have opened, but because racers now have so many other options. It is great that the racers have options, but if the trend continues as it has been, there will only be one or two tracks to choose from. The rest will no doubt go under, forcing the average racer who has been supporting his home track to find a new hobby.

 

Brian Callaway

[racingnut]

mr callaway

 

are you suggesting that the tracks squeeze out the touring series or stop hosting them all together

I think that some of the touring series have allowed drivers to get into racing that otherwise could not have afforded it I think that if some tracks forced a hand alot of those drivers would seek out the track that apprieciated having them to add variety to a otherwise normal schedule or just quit racing period

 

here is a wild idea what if the 4 cyl cars (legacy-tx thunder-tps ) came together and had a big race

[colgate]

thank you brian for saying what you think is right.

 

you are right on the money.

 

i think alot of people will see it the way a track owner sees it now.

[Budman]

Excellent point Bryan. For many, many years the asphalt tracks around here had only two classes. Hobby Stocks and modifieds or supermodifieds or super stocks, depending on which years. You started in hobby stocks and some drivers eventually "graduated" to the next class up. They did so only after they had "mastered" the Hobby Stocks, after a good number of years experience in them. Some chose never to move up to the next class. A few drivers would run both classes.

 

To fill the show each night, each class ran a lot more races than they do now. They would run a helmet (trophy) dash, heat races, australian pursuit, consolation or B-main and the feature for each of the two classes. A good night was when you had 36 cars. Eighteen in each class.

[racingnut]

of the series mentioned above (minicups legacy baby grands mods) how many drivers total have these series taken out of the loop. how many drivers have left the local classes to run one of these series. two series come to mind that have directly affected the local driver pool. they are tsrs and the arts trucks. now mr dickerson has bought the mod series I think his dream would be to run the slm, trucks and tams at the same track during a race weekend. how is this going to affect the other track owners on those nights that they will be racing at another track. some tracks are closing down when this big show is racing at another track. tsrs has even changed dates to accommodate sas ( for a big show) probably because they feel obligated to do so for whatever reason. maybe for a date at tms

 

it all sounds like sas & usra is the big winner

 

your points are well taken, but since this is an open forum I wanted to express my thoughts

[ccmotorspeedway]

100% total agreeance with Brian.

 

 

Enough said.

 

Thanks

[The Shrimp]

Sounds like this is or could be a real big problem looming on the horizon. Maybe there needs to be a big meeting to get this all fixxed. TTOPA to the rescue.

As I sit and think about Brians comments and Owens concurrence, this is what comes to mind. There are 4 big traveling series, USRA SLM, MODS, TRUCKS and TSRS. Now the SLM always seem to put on the best show and are most competitive at SAS and TSRS derived from THR Late Models, 40-50% of the TAMS class at each race, is made up of Corpus Christi area drivers and the trucks seem to have the biggest turn out at THR.

I'm not saying that this would be the best fix but it might be away to help the local tracks to stay open.

Just my opinion.

[jracer98]

No business owner thinks having increased competion is swell. As the consumer gets more choices, the business owners task is to be the consumers "best" option. If people are choosing McDonalds instead of your pre existing cafe, your choices are to meekly accept the reduced business or win it back in the marketplace. Thinking back to a time before franchising won't change the competition for today's dollar.

 

I am not in the racetrack business but it would seem to me that it has a big difference from the above example. There are only 5 paved track in all of Texas. If the situation was that there were only five buildings in Texas that were "zoned" to run a burger joint out of and anyone that wanted to get into the burger business had to bring their customers to one of those 5 spots and cut a deal with you...

 

One guy wants touring series to go away. One guys wants to own multiple touring series. Only in America.

 

Jay

[Mike Riley]

I agree that the touring series are hurting the local tracks. Here is another spin that will also hurt tracks....running all the series together in one night at each track. I know at CCMS that TAMS would draw a large crowd and so would ROMCO. So there were 6 - 8 real good crowd nights. If the shows are combined, now there are only 3 - 4 good crowd nights. Combining the shows would take money right out of the pockets of the local tracks. And now we have tracks shutting down one night because of the touring series. One week you have NO revenue and the next week you have GREAT revenue....to me if you average that out between the two weeks you have GOOD revenue. Just my thoughts.

[fast18]

Mike , I know that some people have looked at it that way...if you have a bad night then a great night it does average out. If you know a big show elsewhere that will cause you to have a bad night it would be better to close that night than to lose money staying open.

[racerx]

In most markets, weekly shows lose money...one big show pays for 6 weeks of local shows...I suppose the track owners could cancel the touring series, but what would we do with our cars...is the genie out of the bottle?

 

The only solution is to put all the tracks and all the touring series together under one company and take it public...I have that presentation from last year around here somewhere...The track owners should get together with USRA and do it...the IPO could raise money to pay off debt and for marketing and promotion.

 

PS - Who would have thought Brian Callaway and Eddy Wallace would have been the ones getting everyone stirred up this week! I damn sure would have lost money on that one. I have heard Brian talk about the evils of the touring series' many times before, but what got into him to post about it now? I guess I can hold off on that RTA car.

[fast18]

Also I would like to say I have always supported my local track but as we all know racing is expensive. I like the classes that are inexpensive...they seem to be the bread and butter for local tracks. From a spectators viewpoint the late models, mods and trucks are exciting to watch and definitly bring something different to the fans. I hope the tracks and series keep working together so we all have a place to enjoy our sport.

[ProTree]

all the tracks and series under one roof?- if somebody at the top sneezes,everybody else would catch a cold-then what?

[racerx]

Catch a cold, hell we already got walking pnuemonia!

[gundogC3]

..

[ccmotorspeedway]

Racerx - good clarification in most markets weekly shows lose money, the good clarification is "most" not all, I am happy with my profit / loss average on a weekly show. Here is the thing though would the weekly show improve and be more profitable if there were more cars? If the answer is yes then would there be more local cars if there were less or no touring series?

 

Quote "I suppose the track owners could cancel the touring series, but what would we do with our cars"..

 

What did all the guys running in touring series do with their local track cars when they decided to go race a touring series? Most drivers ran at a local track before they raced in a touring series correct? Not all, but I bet a majority of racers raced something on a local basis before stepping into a touring series car.

 

Just my thoughts and opinions.

Thanks

Owen

Good thread Brian!

 

If the big show was at SAS every week, guess what it would not be a touring series show it would be a local SAS show every week. Good point GUNDOG33.

[colgate]

[edited out by Nick Holt, 6/15/05] open LONGHORN the big show would be there.

 

try that one on for size

[RodneyRodriguez]

I think Brian has a great point, but the touring series do really well so what is the answer. Over the last 3 to 4 years I have thought in the back of my mind that before too long the tracks would end up being special event tracks only and running every other weekend or once monthly and resorting the weekly guys to bowling. Although I am racing weekly, many guys do and not having that option would really disappoint these folks.

I think one of the toughest tasks facing the track operator is getting new folks involved on the track. It seems the entry-level class always ends up getting to the point where it gets expensive or you have racers out there dominating that class so badly who wants to learn how to race that way ????

While it seems the "middle" classes (Street, Sportsman etc) seem to be thriving and the classes with the better car counts, they (we) apparently don't have the flare drawn by the LM's, which is understandable.

This weekend for example, how will the stands look @ SAS & THR ? (full I hope) but in reality, they will not be. Next week you will have to get to San Antone early to pick your seat but who's not to say you won't see better racing this weekend at either place ?

What happens next ? Hopefully the weekly shows thrive and everyone has places to race. NASCAR on Sunday would help that as well !

[1-Crew]

In defense of touring series I'd like to pose the question: If the touring series didn't exist, would the drivers in those series now race in a local series?

 

Just thinking about the situation from one team's perspective, as a touring competitor, we have no "local" track. For us the closest track is always at least a two hour pull unless we want to run dirt.

 

For us, the touring series offers a less demanding schedule, we can run the full series without racing every week and that is a big plus for time and money.

 

Last but not least, we run the TPS series because it allows us the opportunity to run something other than a generic GM V8 product. That also restricts any potential local series to dirt or a 6 hour pull to race.

[ProTree]

maybe usra could subcontract a class to a track-put 1 usra class at each track to run twice a month-tams at cc/lm's at sas/trucks at thr-each track benefits-then have 3 races during the year with all 3 classes together(1 at each of the above tracks) called USRA Spring,Summer & Fall Championship Race or some name with a catchey title-

[gundogC3]

..

[NickHolt]

The only solution is to put all the tracks and all the touring series together under one company and take it public...I have that presentation from last year around here somewhere...The track owners should get together with USRA and do it...the IPO could raise money to pay off debt and for marketing and promotion.

Larry,

 

Your proposed corporation is really the best solution to the issues facing the Central/South Texas stock car racing community. Ricci Ware did essentially the same thing when he controlled stock car racing back in the 60's and most of the '70's.

 

I bet your proposal sounds more like an 800 pound TTOPA gorilla than a good idea to some folks though.

 

It is becoming more and more obvious that an unbrella organization - be it TTOPA or a public corporation or some organization in between - is our best bet to tackle the types of problems our local tracks (with the exception of CCMS, of course) have been facing over the past few years.

 

I formed TTOPA in late 2003 with that in mind, but it was simply an informal association of track owners and promoters. With the recent shakeup in ownership and in management at SAS (and to a lesser extent at THR), TTOPA has been on the back burner to wait for things to simmer down a bit.

 

Perhaps it's time to make a few TTOPA phone calls this week.

 

Nick Holt

[abrungot]

Its all about New Blood... Call it local short track development programs...

 

There are several tracks back in my home (New Hampshire) that have kind-of done this...

 

They have Enduro type cars.. that have different levels..

 

4 bangers *(JR. Trucks / Cars seperate

V-6

V - 8 *(Like Grandstock/Bomber)

 

These cars do not run every week.. they run 1 to 2 times per month.. The purse isn't large the cars are pretty cheap... Cost is well Cheap.. But it stirs the pot enought that they want to move up..

 

Eventually getting to the Hobbies/Street Stocks...

 

All of these classes were started after the success of one Enduro.. 250 laps.. race what you brought *(Street Legal) There was somewhere around 75 - 100 cars that started the race...

 

We they built these cars.. and wanted to have something else to do with them.. besides a once a year Enduro..

 

"Co Opetition" * Thanks DW.. Is what the tracks.. need.. Cooperation/in a Competitive market.. allowing everyone to do better.. and hopefully with the moon and start aligning... Everyone wins..

[KISS_Racing]

Please help me in my misunderstanding here...

 

When Todd decided to build San Antonio Racway, did he take into consideration that Alamo Dragway was already here in San Antonio. My guess is YES!!! Did he build it anyway? YES!!! He built and the racers came... Now here is my misunderstanding, why is it that Todd is doing such a great amount of business? Is it because he's open Weds., Fri. and Sat? Is it because he opens the Track/Pit parking lot for rental? I don't have the answers, I do know that they spend tons of money on advertising their events...

 

From what I understand Terry Dickerson, Brian and Owen are all spending money on advertising. Is it not in the right place? Is it not on the right radio station? Is it not bringing in the right series? Is it not in giving away enough free tickets? Again I don't have the answer for why things are the way they are... I can say that I have enjoyed watching the races at SAS, THR and CCMS... To all track management, keep pressing forward and keep up the good work...

[ccmotorspeedway]

? Why would USRA need to sub-contract? Why couldn't THR say we are going to pay the same purse for the trucks twice a month to run a THR local truck class or CCMS (and is being thought about) start their own Modified class paying the same amount as USRA and run twice a month. Why can't the tracks take care of themselves why does everyone need USRA??