SAS & THR from Brian

[Budman]

It's sure good to hear Colgate has volunteered to reopen Longhorn. That would be a very astute move on his part.

 

Colgate, you going to run it? You going to rebuild the stands? What's your car count going to be like? Gonna have big crowds there are ya? Hope you got a sh#t load of cash to flush down the toilet. Oh, and don't forget the insurance and worst of all the PROPERTY TAXES.

[ProTree]

kiss to answer the ?-they are alot more people that can drag race than can circle track race-you want to circle track race you have to have a car built for it and something to haul it to the track-you want to drag race you can drive in off the street in your street car and race-

[racerx]

I did edit to add that just for you Owen...

 

but this whole thread is making me say hmmmm...maybe Brian will come back tonight after midnight tonight and share some more...

[REBELRACER]

kiss to answer the ?-they are alot more people that can drag race than can circle track race-you want to circle track race you have to have a car built for it and something to haul it to the track-you want to drag race you can drive in off the street in your street car and race-

 

thats a good point.........plus to go out to the circle track and tear the car up costs more money to fix it back up again, where as the drag strip you just build it to go straight fast...........of coarse you tear one up on occation, but not as often as the circle track........plus they allow spectators to race their street cars at the drag strip, you cant really do that at the circle track...........

[arts22]

Racerx - good clarification in most markets weekly shows lose money, the good clarification is "most" not all, I am happy with my profit / loss average on a weekly show. Here is the thing though would the weekly show improve and be more profitable if there were more cars? If the answer is yes then would there be more local cars if there were less or no touring series?

 

 

What did all the guys running in touring series do with their local track cars when they decided to go race a touring series? Most drivers ran at a local track before they raced in a touring series correct? Not all, but I bet a majority of racers raced something on a local basis before stepping into a touring series car.

How many cars would it take to make up for the traveling series profit at your track? I only see 3 drivers from Corpus on the USRA drivers post, would they make that big of a difference?

 

There are alot of drivers around the Austin area that would probably race locally at THR but alot might go back to dirt as well. Alot of the drivers in the touring series dont live near an asphalt track, but theres always a dirt track nearby. That is where alot of them came from. By not letting a touring series come to your track, would not help your profit in todays world.

 

Why isnt the tracks themselves trying to get local drivers, instead of blaming the touring series? Could you go to the local dirt track and hand out flyers to drivers or just talk to them about racing asphalt, or making a class where the dirt trackers could race the same car on asphalt.

[ccmotorspeedway]

Arts22 - Steve Grantz, Clare Randall, Joey Heinaman, James Myers, Bruce Beddoe, Larry Smith are a few of the USRA modified drivers that CC has lost or loses each time they run, plus some of Joey and James's crew members and Cody Beddoe the son of Bruce Beddoe have cars so there is at least 9 cars that we lose with USRA Modifieds. There are many local drivers that go with the Pro sedans and some of the local drivers go help certian pro sedan cars when they run so that list is as long or longer than the modifieds. Trucks and Super Late Models do not really effect me that much I agree.

 

Now when you lose that driver that is one person and your car count suffers but what about someone like Steve Grantz who brings 5 or 6 crew members and 20 fans in the seats each week, that is a revenue loss do you agree or no?

 

Thanks hope this helps you.

[Guest HMPFlagman]

Here at Houston the USRA Sanctions our HMS LM's when there. Its a purse and is desgined to bring more LMs to the track when USRA is there to up the thrills. Much like running a bush race so to speak. You guys are talking about SAS and THR and CC, but theres two more asphalt tracks - Red River and HMP. HMP we're hosting the legends regional qualifer saturday. We're expecting a high car count but will i spectator count reflect that? Maybe maybe not. The only touring series I've seen at HMP pack the stands is NASCAR Elite, TSRS did a pretty good job last year. USRA so far this year has been a little more thin. TAMS - granted that was on the same weekend as NHRA in Baytown....

 

Much like San Antonio, and Alamo...

 

The Bakers knew they had Sealy, Baytown, what else in Houston area... mainly baytown's 1/4 mile, but they built an 1/8th mile, and it stays thick and full year round

[arts22]

I didnt realize you had that many. I dont know any of the TAMS teams. I dont understand why the tracks dont like(it sounds like they dont) the touring series. When we came to CCMS there was a total of 16 of us and two trucks. Several of us went out Friday night and told everyone insight about CCMS and asked everyone of them to come out to the race. Thats alot of revenue not only for the track but for the city itself(if you add up all the drivers-rooms, meals, etc.). Do you think the weekly classes in one weekend will bring in as much as the SLM, MODS, and TRUCKS. With my business, I'm greedy, I want every dollar I can get and then some.... I just dont understand how the touring series arent welcomed with open arms, I dont get it........Oh, I only know of 2 people that we talked to that came out to the track, we talked to atleast 100, LL can testify....

[ccmotorspeedway]

ARTS22- I think you are taking what I am saying wrong, liking the touring series has nothing to do with it, it is all about the money, the people that come with the touring series are great, I had a blast when USRA comes to town. I am just saying in the 2 years I have run this facility I have seen the touring series have a direct effect on car count and people count. We have 26 racing weekends USRA modifieds, trucks and SLM's visit a total of 7 time so I really need to worry more about the other 19 weeks of racing, if USRA came 13 times well things might be a little different, see what I mean, it has to do with making money for the track not liking or disliking the touring series. I used to be half owner of the TAMS series, Wayne and myself were the originators of that series. So partly my fault.

[racerx]

Steve Grantz who brings...20 fans in the seats each week

 

I didn't know Steve had that many kids!!!

 

By the way, I called Callaway and asked him about his post...he told me he posted it in response to the other thread that said something about SAS and THR being in competition. His post was to say he has no problem with SAS and he welcomed coopitating with them. He said he is happy with SAS, Dickerson, etc. Reiterated Mary Ann was happy working with SAS as well.

 

Brian has long thought touring series are killing the local tracks, not competition from other tracks.

 

SLM & TPS existed

 

New Touring Series:

 

TSRS

Trucks

TAMS

Legends

Dwarfs

Legacy

 

Maybe 125-175 cars depending on how you count it? If you look at cars, drivers, teams, and fans it adds up, like Owen and Brian are pointing out. If there were no touring series besides SLM & TPS, I would have started circle track in SS or LM at THR instead of trucks.

[Guest The_Greek]

i have to agree with Brian and Owen, and this is something ive been saying for along time, there are far too many touring series, the car counts and crowds suffer at your local tracks without a doubt, with a touring series running that night or not, whats even worse about all these touring series is there car counts arent anything to brag about either!!! not to mention the racing hasnt been that exciting, its usually follow the leader, and if we're lucky maybe one lead change and as we all saw last year....CCMS put a huge purse and the car count was by far the worst ive ever seen in any touring series event, so it isnt the money or the purse.

 

of course its easy to complain about things, but to really accomplish anything, its best served if people voiced some opinions or ideas on how to help the local tracks stay open and improve car counts, i would say that the track owners take a better look at their racing programs and see what would benefit the core of drivers they have and see what they have to offer or suggest, and possibly as Owen suggested host a couple of special events a month for either Mods, SLM, or Trucks. (Owen you know ive been bugging you about that for along time too LOL)

 

PS: no racefan is gonna want to drive 2-3 every saturday night to see some good racing, that gets old fast, and expensive. its best if the local track puts on a good weekly show, and to CCMS credit its been good here in the past couple of years, but improvements can always be made.

[Hartracn19]

For what its worth, I believe there are two types of drivers. One who will run every day if they could, and the other who drives with that same passion, but prefers a weekend or two off in between races.

 

I fall in the second category for a couple of reasons. I love racing, but I also want to (need to) give my family time to enjoy doing the other stuff that they enjoy. (I know, what else is there other than racing???) I also need the time in between races to make repairs. I do not have many of the resources and knowledge to fix a lot in just one week between races.

 

Running with a touring series (TPS in my case,) allows me the weekends off to make those repairs or spend time doing something that the family wants to do.

 

I also love the touring series because I get to see, race with, and support multiple tracks. It is a challenge to set the car up for CCMS, then figure out how to get the same speed from SAS, then make the car go fast at THR. (HMPFlagman, TPS currently doesn't run at your track or Red River, but the same would be true for the series that do run those tracks.)

 

As I mentioned above, guys that stop racing at the local track weekly may do so not because they do not want to support their local track, but need to get time off between races, and still be able to compete for a championship. They support the track by building the car count in the touring series for when it appears at their local tracks. It also allows them the opportunity to learn how to tune a car for different tracks. This is important if they have a desire to move up beyond our local racing scene here in Texas someday.

 

The closest track to me is SAS, but it is still about an hour away. TRH is over an hour to get to. CCMS is really far away for me in comparison. I enjoy watching the races (and competing) at all three. Each gives a different experience for both driver and spectator. I believe that fans (the hardcore dedicated ones) will be out regardless of the car counts, who's there, the weather, the time, etc. The touring series are a tool that the tracks can use to pull in the occasional fan. That fan is the one who worries about car counts, who's there, the weather, the time, etc. It also brings to the track folks who may never get the chance to see the other tracks. That benefits the tracks, drivers, and spectators from my perspective.

 

The secret is to get the young people involved early, like JRA is doing. Getting the kids there in stands will get the car counts up. As the children get old enough to build/ buy and race their first cars, they will start out at the local tracks.

 

Have any of the tracks gone to the local high schools for career day? Have any talked with the schools and shop teachers about a co-op between the tracks and the shop classes? A co-op can have a project to build a hobby stock car or another local class car. It can be a year long process for the classroom, and they will be excited about it as well.

 

When the car is done, the students could share driving duties (over age 16 of course.) Or it could be raffled off. Tickets could be sold at the track all year, then raffled off at the big race the tracks put on at the end of the year. Half of the proceeds go to say JRA, half to the school to buy more tools for the shop class. (Just an idea...) I guarantee that will get those students to the track. They will proudly watch the race and point out to everyone that they built that car.

 

Anyway, I think touring series can be positive for the tracks, and I for one, am very glad we have them (at least TPS )

 

(Sorry this went on and on and on and on…… )

 

Lloyd

TPS #19

[jracer98]

What led to the formation of all the "recent" touring series(tsrs/trucks/tams).

Just curious.

Jay

[tqj3]

Suppose each track had three times the spectator base it has now, or more. Would anyone care if the crowd was a little off once in awhile because a touring series was at the next track down the line?

[Hartracn19]

There was a dirt track I used to go to before I moved here. That track had built or bought a couple of the entry level cars. (Their entry level was called American stock. Stock engines, 4 – point cages, etc.) They would rent these out to fans who wanted a taste of what racing was like, before they spent a small fortune buying or building their own.

 

It let them see if they liked it or not. When no-one rented the cars on a given week, the track managers would run them. It was cool to be out there racing the track owner, manger, etc. When someone really liked it, and offered to buy one of the cars, the track would sell it to them. They would then build/ buy another to rent out. It helped keep car counts up, and really did increase the spectator count as well.

 

They would also invite the track sponsors out (an other local companies,) who in turn would rent the cars and put their mangers in them. The sponsor’s employees would fill the stands (as paying customers) to get a chance to see if their bosses would win (or crash.) All renters had to sign the usual documents releasing liability, and I am not sure how the insurance works here vs. what they did, but again, just an idea…

[arts22]

CCMS, I see your point on the other 19 race weekends.... But from reading on here it seems like there is always something going on at CCMS, whether it be boat races, chain races, demo races, etc. Does that not bring in a crowd. What does a track have to do to bring in the fans on those nights? I would think even on the nights of USRA, the Monday before put out flyers about the big event, surely someone that races in Corpus could help where there is little or no expense. But if your track is making a profit, its not hurting you as much as the other tracks.......

 

Larry, how many of those 125-175(is that high) wouldnt be racing at any of the asphalt tracks? I think alot more than you realize. TMS is our closest asphalt track. How many drivers are from north and east Texas, a good bit. If the tracks think touring series takes away from there weekly earnings, then advertise the mess out of the touring series for those weekends they race at your track to help recooperate your lose from the weekly classes. One minute you hear how Dickerson is helping apshalt racin in Texas now I hear the opposite. Step outside of the box, you all know whats hurting your track, now find out how to work off of that to improve your revenue. If it was easy money even Larry would own a track. Alot of colleges have students that there courses require them to work as an intern(free employee) in their field of choice. Find the ones in advetisement, business management, etc and let there minds go to work. Work off the positives of the track not the negatives.

 

Greek, have you not seen the trucks? the truck count averages over 20 per race, is that low to you? I havent seen a truck race yet that was follow the leader.

[colgate]

hey BUDMAN i bet if somebody opened longhorn again there would be alot more of a car count then what there was at the TMS race this past weekend for the USRA series.

 

MY OPINION only

[Guest The_Greek]

Greek, have you not seen the trucks? the truck count averages over 20 per race, is that low to you? I havent seen a truck race yet that was follow the leader.

yes i have, i saw them at SAS and CCMS, i gotta admit the SAS race was pretty entertaining, the CC race was follow the leader pretty much, but let me say this i wasnt really singlely out the Truck series for whats that worth to you.

[racerx]

The touring series were around before TD ever showed up...no one should blame it on him...he is trying new stuff from a touring series event perspective that needed to be tried and working with the other tracks from a SAS perspective...I think it is a general observation about touring series in general, and was not intended to be directed at him. The stuff with THR and SAS working together to maximize the FRONT gate on these two events has been talked about before and needs to be tried. They should be applauded for trying.

 

There is no one magic bullet...getting rid of touring series, if even possible, won't guarantee more fans to ALL the tracks. Who knows, next year there may be more frequent big shows at all the tracks and then smaller one or two class touring nights at all the tracks in between big events. Balancing the schedule will help. But that by itself is not going to bring new fans.

 

Quote "I suppose the track owners could cancel the touring series, but what would we do with our cars"..

 

What did all the guys running in touring series do with their local track cars when they decided to go race a touring series? Most drivers ran at a local track before they raced in a touring series correct? Not all, but I bet a majority of racers raced something on a local basis before stepping into a touring series car.

 

Owen, we can't go back the other way...if a guy sells his ss to go truck racing, there is a place for the buyer to race it...if we quit running trucks, who will buy them?

 

I like Jracer's question about why did all these touring series start-up anyway...all that dot com money?

 

Greek, ARTS22 (aka T-bone, aka Speedy Wall Banger) is truck and wall centric, he can't help himself.

[arts22]

Greek, ARTS22 (aka T-bone, aka Speedy Wall Banger) is truck and wall centric, he can't help himself.

Larry does your wife know your out of your cage? I cant help myself, but you could have...

 

Greek, each time the trucks come to CCMS the racing will be better, first time on track for most of the drivers. Hell, the track scared LL(not so Latin Lover). He quit racin, keeps sayin he's got a LM, hummmmmmm.

[racerx]

Hell I quit and I'm still ahead of you in the points! LOL. Now back to the topic...

[KahneFan]

Sitting in the stands, it seems to me as though "cheap = good". And no, I'm not talking about ticket prices. I'm talking about the actual cars. One of the busiest "regular" nights I've seen at THR was the night of the demo derby.

 

I think it's kind of like Aaron was hinting to, give the 'average joe' a cheap class to get their feet wet in. Even if it's only 1, 2 or 3 Enduro races, or demo derbies, or chain races or... whatever, just something where the begining driver or even fan could think "for $500 - $1000 I could throw a car on the track". Then after they get the taste in their mouth, they may venture first into a local hobby stock or street stock and THEN go to a touring series. With the Grand Stock class, people can now claim a car for a grand and you can see the class has grown quiet a bit since it started last year. Aaron, correct me if I'm wrong, but up north don't they race just about anything that will roll... sometimes not even roll... around the track?

 

I would LOVE to see a crash-a-rama night...

 

New Fans Come for the Wrecks (even if they are well orchestrated wrecks) - True Fans Come for the Race... once you get the new fan, you can turn them into a true fan... which can then become a driver... in one of these cheap races... then into a local series... then into a touring series... then we're all pissed because he's only won one race in two years with NASCAR... oh wait...

 

Example

Semi-example

Example

Many Images from somewhere

 

 

[REBELRACER]

i think hart19 has a damn good point..............if the tracks could work with the local schools shop departments and get the school started in the entry level class we all win........the kids have something to do with their time other than video games, plus they learn a usefull skill......any money won by with the car could go back into the program to improve the car..........great idea...........and the other idea he had was also a good one........renting the cars is a good idea, the only the bad part is if someone got hurt in it, or the cost for fixing the car if someone wrecks it...........that would be a good idea though, maybe sell tickets and during intermission pick a few winners to race the cars......you make money from the tickets, and i am sure those people who won would be back for more and be telling all their friends and family all week how they got to race...........jmo

[Rookie49]

tsrs started basically because a whole class of competitive cars at one track were dropped.

[Crazyhorse]

I would have started circle track in SS or LM at THR instead of trucks.

i did........but how long was i suppose to keep on doing it? we want to run different tracks and get other expreriences , and try and get more knowledge of what it is we are doing instead of the repetative 'same track every weekend'....i'm a thr driver- no matter what series i run , im still considered that and that's cool by me....but if it would'nt of been for a travelng series i would have scaled back my racing or possibly quit all together...not because i don't wanna run thr, i just wanted new places to run....(if you eat tuna sandwich everyday pretty soon you atleast wanna taste of something else.)the trucks were in our budget so we're running them...building a car specifically for each track( sas , ccs, hms , and thr) was not in my budget.

i dont understand the business of operating a race track and i won't pretend like i do by putting in my opinion on the quick fix cure all, i just want to race...........and i appreciate owen and brian for giving us that oppurtunity....

 

USRA-28rt

THR-5ss