HiTech Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 oldtimer why is it i cant understand a damn thing you post? you have 1866 posts and none of them make since! maybe after you read them 4 or 5 times they do. lol jason maybe your not smart enough .to read between the lines .you got to step up to my level .which you.ll have to have a very very tall latter and may take you a very long time to climb .now if you cant climb maybe you could rent a manlift .even thow they still maynot be abel to reach but aleast you could get closer .if that dont work .dont read my post thats a simple solution for you . now i wonder if this responce is still to high for you to comprehend. also if it takes you 4 or 5 times of reading my post .well then i must be purty darn good at holding your interest . so is this a good enough reply for you .did you only have to read it once . : oh shoot i almost forgot .you must be reading all this upside down you stated 1866 post that my friend is menbership number . 1716 post is the correct number now i see why you have trouble ..and now i have to say im sorry for you and i for hijacking this thread .over and out . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie49 Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Posted: Oct 22 2006, 05:52 I think that 10.00 adult ticket prices are more than enough. According to mike sepichs earlier post that would mean you need a minimum of 1500 fans. Sounds doable. SSCHUCK, I was trying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hartracn19 Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Ok - 5 pages on this thread so far and I keep seeing the same things... Lower prices.... (ticket and concession...) Higher prices for touring series... Kill the touring series... (Side Note on the Touring series... TPS had 31 registered cars for a $1000 to win at OktoberFast, AND have 30 registered cars for a $1000 to win at the Spectacular, AND has consistently run for 31 years... HMMM, maybe a model to follow????) OK back to the discussion at hand. The other consistent theme I keep seeing is: “How do we get the same butts in the stands for every race...???” Bottom line, that flawed logic, and why the tracks keep having empty seats. Sure Mike S. lowered prices and didn’t see an increase, and then raised them again. WHY WAS THERE NO INCREASE IN ATTENDANCE? Because the same flawed business model was followed. You cannot get the stands full consistently with the same folks. It simply will not happen. (Yes, the exception is the die hard who would be out there if you put pet chimps in pedal cars.) But if you want to increase the stands to maximum capacity, you have to market to the potential seat fillers on their terms... DO NOT EXPECT THEM BACK EXCEPT A COUPLE OF TIMES A YEAR!!! Why were the stands pretty full at the Crash o Rama...? Because SAS tapped a market that doesn’t care who is in what car, they just wanted to see destruction. But do not expect those same fans to be out at the weekly shows. Lower the prices on ticket and concessions? Absolutely Yes. But the key is to reach new fans. How, actually quite simple. This last ASA race had the first clue, and possibly a huge missed opportunity. It was sponsored by AT&T. One exec came out and drove a car. Cool for him, but AT&T has their HQ right here in San Antonio. Did company memo's go out to all of there employees in town? Was the race even made known to their employees? Did their employees receive a discount coupon since they worked for the company? SAS apparently worked with this exec, but could more have been done? I do not know how many employees that company has here in San Antonio alone, but I do know that number is huge. It could have been coordinated as AT&T employee appreciation night. How about UTSA, HEB, etc. Then there are Hospital worker nights, Fire and Police appreciation nights and so on. How about teaming up with the local movie houses, where if someone who went to the track brings in their SAS or THR ticket stubs, they get a discount on their movie ticket, or a free popcorn. Do not for get the reverse. If someone brings in that theaters ticket stub, they get a discount into the track, or a free hot dog and soda. The local tracks need to cross market if they want to be successful in today's market. The fact is, you are NOT going to get full stands week in and week out with the same folks attending every race. You have to reach out and usher new fans in. What if that HEB employee just attends just the one race that was titled HEB Employee appreciation night? So what! Lets hope he and his family had fun. Next year on HEB appreciation night, maybe he will be back. Even better, he may tell a neighbor or a co worker that didn’t go who may go out once or twice. Next week though, needs to focus on a whole new group. If that HEB employee does come back, or sends new folks out, that’s even better. How can you increase your odds that he may be back at least one or two more times or at all: 1.) When he and his family are there, they better feel welcome. 2.) It better be affordable (tickets and concessions) 3.) Facilities like the restrooms and concessions better be clean, or the wife will say they are not returning. 4.) Give them a better value than they expected. They need the chance to get something. Giveaways (like shirts, free passes for another race, free hot dog, etc...) When a business (any business) stops focusing on the bottom line ($$$) and puts running the business right (putting the customer first, and being the best at what they do,) the profits will follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 hart my mind hurt on that one but very well said . 31 years .you forgot 31 laps . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 This last ASA race had the first clue, and possibly a huge missed opportunity. It was sponsored by AT&T. One exec came out and drove a car. Cool for him, but AT&T has their HQ right here in San Antonio. Did company memo's go out to all of there employees in town? Was the race even made known to their employees? Did their employees receive a discount coupon since they worked for the company? SAS apparently worked with this exec, but could more have been done? I do not know how many employees that company has here in San Antonio alone, but I do know that number is huge. It could have been coordinated as AT&T employee appreciation night. There has been a tremendous amount of work that Terry and Tammy Dickerson, Debbie, Rick and Erin have put in behind the scenes with AT&T and other local, regional, national and even international companies. What you saw Saturday is the first little plant pushing up through the ground from a lot of seeds and watering that has taken place. Will AT&T become a major contributor to local motorsports? That depends on a lot of things, but the entire SAS management team has been working very effectively behind the scenes to do what they can to make SAS - and stock car racing in general - an attractive investment for businesses, both large and small. Hopefully all this effort and expense will pay off for the track and for stock car racing in South/Central Texas. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debwill Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Hartracn19, What Nick said is true. We are just beginning to build a relationship with AT&T. Can more be done? Absolutely. We hope to meet with AT&T representatives later this week to take our business relationship to a new level for next year's racing season. And we've already discussed an AT&T night, etc. With the help of Dan VanderLey (dad of ASA driver Daren VanderLey), we were able to establish some good contacts within AT&T - but that only started a couple of weeks ago. They are very interested in a bigger presence in the southwest side of town, especially with our close proximity to Toyota. You make some very good points, and we hope to move forward with our marketing efforts during the off-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REBELRACER Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 great job debbie and sas crew, i hope all of your hard work pays off for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hartracn19 Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Deb and Nick, I am certainly not belittling your efforts. Getting AT&T on board at all for something local is a fantastic accomplishment. I know they have really moved their advertising focus to the national and global levels, so to bring them in for this race was a huge success on your part. I know a few folks who work for AT&T and the largest majority of them didn't know that their employer was sponsoring this race. The ones who did know only found out through the commercials that you placed on TV. It is true, you cannot control directly what companies like AT&T share with their employees. But sometimes, little suggestions and probing questions will prompt a large company to share information down the chain, that otherwise would have gone unsaid. Could more have been done on your part for the ASA race, who knows? But if you now know that their employees had not been informed, that is something you can take to the table when you continue discussions with them. Again, you cannot control their actions, but what would it take for someone in the company to get a memo sent out to the employees via email? I do not have the answers, just pondering out loud. Seems the two biggest things I see on these forum threads are: - Lower prices - More advertising Both of these (and all of the other "suggestions") from us armchair track managers!! My opinion - advertising is great, and lower prices (affordable to more potential track visitors) are important. However, unless the other factors are addressed, you will not put more butts in the stands. I have several friends that make it out to the races one or two times a year. Make the admission price free, and give the food away, and give them the best show on earth and they probably still would not come out any more often. But there is a whole segment of folks in San Antonio who would come out more if the prices were more affordable. These folks do not make a large salary, and have large families. Make it affordable for them to come out, and your stands will be full, some of the time. My whole key point is the fans there this week probably will not be there next week. Your focus needs to be (again, just in my opinion) on different groups, to keep the stands full week after week. You are already doing this with the ASA races, Crash o Rama, etc. These will help fill the stands on certain weekends. You need to reach out to specific groups. Blanket advertising is great, but only for so far. My suggestion is to find specific markets. I use AT&T as the example, since they were the sponsor. If they could have been persuaded to inform their employees, you could have had a larger attendance from that specific target market....and the best part is the direct marketing to the employees would have been done though the very company that was sponsoring the race. Was AT&T shown the benefit to tell their employees? FWIW - I do think you are on the right track. But after reading 5 pages of the same threads I read during the last reincarnations of this topic, I thought I would finally put my thoughts out there for all the world to see. I do not recall seeing this line of thinking out here before, but perhaps it was and I just missed it due to my eyes glazing over from reading all the posts!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie49 Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Hart you are providing the detail that I left out. But the gist of what you said is what I was referring to. The track has to appeal to more than the diehards and that takes a combination of tuning your product and developing your market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Hart you are providing the detail that I left out. But the gist of what you said is what I was referring to. The track has to appeal to more than the diehards and that takes a combination of tuning your product and developing your market. Wish there were a magic wand someone could wave and the stands would fill up. But, as we know, it doesn't work that way. What does work is a lot of hard work by a lot of people with positive attitudes and a real love of racing - and not just one particular car or driver or track. The results of all the effort are not always immediately evident, but as long as we keep at it and stay focused, I think things will come around for SAS and stock car racing in Texas in general. We know there will always be "boo-birds" who just can't wait to undermine anyone actually trying to do something constructive. And we also know that there are a lot of folks who post here who are trying their best to contribute by making suggestion, posting encouragement and pitching in whenever possible. On a related note, as the founder of TTOPA, I stand ready to get the "common rules" project restarted whenever the tracks let me know they're ready to start work on this again. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSCHUCK Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Nick maybe you'll have better luck if you leave the word start out of your post.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kn1ghtblade Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 I personally think something simular to the spurs family nights might be a good idea... I for one have a modest size family but for alot of the races this year we took not only my 2 kids but my wifes 4 younger cousins with us... For us especialy on the special events was 20 each for me and my wife, then the 3 dollars each for 6 kids... Doesnt really seem like much at the gate when you think about it, but then throw in concessions for this group... I think I dropped 120$ each time we all went... I can afford it most of the time easily but there is alot of folks in this town that can't... So if there was a package deal like for the spurs games where you get tickets + hotdog and drink for a set price each like they do for spurs that might draw some more folks out... And of course not for every weekend, but for certain weekly shows that are not special events just every day nights..... Just a small suggestion to hit the larger family target groups... Again and I think I stated this before, more advertising, more advertising, and more advertising.... Even if its small media types like an add in the paper, flyers to hand out, something... There is a bunch of us out here that I am sure wouldnt mind putting flyers out at there places of business, and also get the the auto parts stores about have flyers each week on there counters... I know oreilys always had drag strip flyers on their counters get a speedway flyer on there too... And this point goes for all the races too, me being a future one next year... We need to get the word out that the track is even there... I think half the people I work with thought the track closed down years ago... They now no better but still that was sad.... Most of my inlaws are from the north side of town and they didnt even know we had a track here... Something needs to be done to get the north side of town to atleast no we have a track, since I am sure there are NASCAR or Racing fans in general that probably if they knew we had a track they would come watch atleast 1 night out of the season... Well I must end my rant now and hopefully it makes some sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer26 Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 I raced two years ago at SAS and my family sat in the stands. I could not believe what it cost for my wife and three kids to go in the stands. They actually charged for kids. The concession was even worse. We have not been back because of that very fact. Go to both the CC tracks and all kids under 12 get in FREE. Mcallen kids get in the stands or the pits free. Parents and racers can afford to take them along. I have a very limited budget to work with and I consider myself average on the pay scale. If I'm not racing I like to go and watch but I'm not going to spend a fortune to watch some special touring series or just another weekly show. And always remember, If MOMMA ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kn1ghtblade Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Well kids under 7 are free at SAS, but with us only 1 of them fell into that age group... Personaly I think kids under 12 should all be free.... Start charging the reduced price for the teenagers only... And dont forget to make that affordable for them also like 4$ for 13-18 year olds or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcellracing Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 There are some very good marketing ideas in this thread, but you cant make crap out to be something it isnt and expect people to buy it, and by that i mean the price of admission really depends on us the racers.If the show sucks then who wants to pay for it. If every race were like octoberfast and like the spectacular is going to be people would be throwing 20's at you. Horse SSchuck if people are saying that it is too expensive, maybe it just cuz its not woth it to them.Example you go to a movie and pay a bunch of money you get out and the movie sucked and you usually turn to the person next to you and say that wasnt worth it. Now would you pay to see it again? I am sorry that some of you only feel like you are worth $8 - $10, but i for one think that i race super hard and put on a great show at least 15-18 dollars worth. All you have to do is get your cars outa the grass and go race and if you let little things like TD telling you he doesnt need your money or you or whatever it is that he says get to you well.........the truth is if all this racing went away TD MA and GB they would still make money in fact they would probably save money and go on nice vacations. So the price of admission is up to you!! I will be doing my part sat at THR. SEE-YA THERE!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arts22 Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 WOW, you put a price on yourself...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcellracing Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Shane, not on myself but on my performance on the track.My sponsors want to see good shows so I perform so the track can make its bills plus some so they can get more fans to watch great shows to make the track lots more money so i can get bigger sponsors so i can race more competetivly so i can eventually win a bigger prize. thats kinda how it works nobody is going to increase the purse out of there pocket anymore than i am going to race outta mine period! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arts22 Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 What you might feel is a good show the fans might not.... The fans want lots of cars, side by side racing and lots of action. Your personal performance on the track changes race to race, so do you want them to judge you when you can run with the crates or when your truck isnt handling as good. Your personal performance really doesnt matter to the fans, I know it does to you, your crew, family and sponsors. The fans want the entire package not 1/10 of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrungot Posted October 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Fan involvement is really important.. i know in previous years they did every couple of weeks open the gate for out of car intros.. with the "Busy nights this year.. that seems to have been lost some" I did hear that from a few of the families.. Its not just about what you pay at concessions, or front gate, and its not just race race race.. its about the total package/experience.. One of the strongest form's of advertising is word of mouth... How can we improve that, to help the front gate? is it strong enough to provide the increase needed (About 20%) to see lowered gate prices.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcellracing Posted October 23, 2006 Report Share Posted October 23, 2006 Yeah your right i have only been 1/10 pretty much all year, but if 20 trucks show up i will be 1/20 of the package Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arts22 Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 It would be an awesome show if 20 trucks show up this weekend... Then the fans will definately get their moneys worth.... Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcellracing Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 See ya there right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SASPEEDRACER24 Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 Rusty is that price factored in when you were on fire and when you weren't.... jk... but in a sence the more exciting the race is for the fans the more likely they are going to come back. Unfortunately people want to come and see crashes pile ups and the occasional bump the leader to take the win on the last lap kind of stuff... I was talking to someone today that had never been to a race track and when I told them about SAS and what happened the last few weeks they wanted to know when things were getting started ect. To me the first thing is to get the occasional fan interested in the local product. Then its keeping them there... Though I dont think TD is going to crash a car through a burning RV each week little things like that keep it from just being another boring night at the races... I can tell you from personal experience that from about the time I was 13 or so my dad stopped taking myself and my mom to the track because the price went up to $10 from whatever it was. I wasn't able to get him to come back to the track for almost 6-7 years later and it wasnt untill I could afford to go again that I didnt go back till I was 17-18... Its not going to change overnight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arts22 Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 See ya there right? No, gonna be in North Carolina..... Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Definitive Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 If the Spurs fall to 20-62 for more than one season say goodbye to attendance(again)no matter how many tix they give away or how low the price is. If you don't have a consistantly good show,you won't have a consistantly full grandstand.It doesn't matter what the price is(within reason). You can advertise until you are blue in the face,but if the first time spectator is bored he or she won't return. SAS has left their rules alone for next year(could that be a first?).Of the four classes they had this summer,the only one that remained stagnant on car count were the late models(been that way since the inception of TSRS).We will have multiple weekends with 20-25 sportsman next year with the roadrunner count in hot pursuit.Give it a third year with the same rules and schedule and those figures will increase. None of these tracks will become successful overnight.A very small percentage of any buisnesses do. As far as the subject of the touring series goes.....some work some don't.But all draw racers from their home tracks.If it doesn't hurt the tracks then keep it going(TPS). Where do the touring series race if the tracks close? Why aren't the touring series or other big shows filling the stands like they used to? Maybe there isn't a large enough regular fan base left to fill the stands around the tour's fans? If the tracks raised the gate fees,and I saw track improvements and purse increases,I wouldn't even raise a brow. One last thing....don't compare the gates price of racing to the other forms of sports in the area because very few of them rely on the gate to stay in the black.Local racing is a rare breed when it comes to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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