What is the Value of a Race team to the Track

[NickHolt]

I think Aaron is asking a valid question, no matter what folks think answer to that question might be.

 

Frankly, there are so many different reasons why people go to a race event that it would be very difficult to tease out the primary reason any one person might have for attending a particular race event from all the possible reasons for attendance.

 

For instance, Fan A knows Billy Bob and he's running at Podunck Raceway tonight. And he heard an ad on the radio for the track earlier in the week and thought he just might attend, and he knows the kids love the playground slide at the track and the hot dogs and cotton candy, but the wife doesn't want to go and sit on those hard bleachers all night watching cars go round and round but is going only because Fan A made a fuss, and Fan A used to drive and he's been fighting off the "urge" for a couple of years but his will power is getting too weak to resist and now's a good chance to size up the possible competition.

 

So, what is the real reason Fan A is at the track that night? Yep, your guess is as good as mine.

 

And to find out, you can't use a simply number count of fans in the stands versus the number of cars on the track.

 

Track A might have 1000 people in the stands and 100 cars in the pits. That's 10 fans per car. Track B might have 3000 fans in the stands and 100 cars in the pits. That's 30 fans per car. Which is the right number to use... And how does that number tell you how many came to see the Pro Stocks and how many came to see the Trucks?

 

Even professionally managed marketing surveys that attempt to figure out why people buy or don't buy a certain product or service or chose to attend this event rather than that event have a huge margin of error even when conducted by statistically-savvy survey companies.

 

It all boils down to what the track believes is the answer to Aaron's question. We can speculate all we want but in the end it all boils down to what works for that track and what doesn't work.

 

For the last part of my professional career, I worked at an Institute that designed, administered and analyzed surveys that answered similar questions for the military (training evaluation, resource allocation, etc). I think it would be interesting to design and administer

a survey and run it over a period of time at various race Texas asphalt short tracks. Wonder what I'd discover.... Hmmm.

 

Nick

[MikeReininger]

Abrungot, I don't see your post as negative or hurting racing at all. I see where you're going with it, it's just that it only works if the "premier" classes act like it and show up and put on a show. From a fan's standpoint, I would much rather watch 20-25 bombers than 6-7 late models, especially if those 6-7 get spread out. You can't control who shows up and who doesn't and I know there's a cost for the racers to come but there's also a cost to get them here and it's real disappointing as a fan to be advertised for a show and the show didn't show up. When that happens, the track needs to depend on their locals to save the day and provide the entertainment the big boys dropped the ball on.

First off, I don't think you know what happened with the late model race in Corpus. While I applaud Abel for the first attempt, there was way too much waffling on which class of late models would run. I originally committed as a TSRS car. Then it went to a mix with pro lates, then pro lates only, then back to mix. I think if it starts one way and ends that way the count will be better.

 

Second...bombers? I appreciate everyone that races something. Every class has the ability to be exciting. Hell, put 100 lawn mowers out there and I'll watch. But that's like saying you would rather watch street cars at the drag strip rather than funny cars. I'm not exactly sure why this thread was actually started, but it definitely morphed into self serving. The answer to the thread is...what the owners of the track want the answer to be. It's their call. If they can fill the stands with bombers headlining, then bombers will be the premier class.

[NickHolt]

How hard would it be to collect this data? It is already being collected at the pit gate when you sign in, or at least can be. Why can't it be applied to the front gate? I'm not saying make people sign in but poll them quickly as they come in. Sweet and to the point. "How many people are with you and what car number are you here supporting?"

 

I'm sure you won't get 100% participation but you may get enough data to start crunching numbers.

 

There are numerous issues that have to be considered when designing a usable, valid customer survey. It can be done, but will require planning and resources.

 

The trick will be coming up a set of possible reasons for being in attendance that makes sense to both the survey respondent and the track management. The rest is simply finding a way to obtain sufficient numbers of respondents and making sure the survey pool is unbiased (we can't have all the Pro Mods rounding up their buddies to take the survey for instance). I'm sure an informal interview type survey could help in identifying the possible reasons for attendance as well as soliciting input here on LSSZ.

 

At the end of the data collection phase, the statistical analysis would have to be carefully done in order to correctly rank order or otherwise identify the primary reasons for attendance.

 

I believe if track operators had valid data to base their allocation of resources, it would be beneficial.

 

Nick

[Bigdogracing777]

I just added how much we spend to get to the race 7 pit passes car entry go kart entry gas for big car fuel for hauler wow food drinks its killing me!! Also have at least 5 to 10 on genral addmissions that come I dont even know what the pay out is if we would win! Aint in it to make money Seeing all my family happy and in one place priceless!!! Having unhappy people complain on spacebook now that hurts every track Watch the stands at any track that someone bad mouths and the fans slowly disapear Good ole space book !!! Think before you drink!!!

[NickHolt]

Some of you with sharp eyes may have noticed that I have deleted a few comments. Let's all try to keep this a general discussion rather than comparing what you like or don't like about this track or that track. We are all armchair promoters at heart, but please refrain from comparing promoters and tracks.

 

Thanks.

 

Nick

[top_shelf_12]

3Car then that goes to another issue that's just as important, a specific set of rules for any race. I was trying not to name any series or track or any name involved and I am just speaking from the fan's point of view. If there were 100 lawn mowers racing it still would be interesting. Those 100 guys will bring revenue for the track, like 100 cars would. That's what I see was the point of the post, the more cars, the more revenue yet that may not be true with some of the touring series since they are generally more expensive to run and concessions are made to get them in the gate. I don't think anyone can expect 20-25 late models to show up for a $500 to win race. Most of you guys probably can't get to the track for $500, especially if you have to travel. I'm not trying to bash anyone, drivers/promoters/tracks at all. I have noticed a trend that asphalt racing is slowly dwindling and it's unfortunate. I grew up going to CC, SAS, Longhorn and to this day, SAS has a mystique to me. I enjoyed my limited trips to HMP and hope to get back up there soon. As time as gone by, I've noticed generally speaking there are a lot more dirt cars than asphalt these days and yes, I'm lucky that I get to go to one of the best every weekend but I don't want to see any track close and I hope there is a fix to their problems. When I do get a car it will more than likely be primarily dirt but when I'm comfortable would love to run Octoberfast because being on SAS would be a dream come true. I will also drive both tracks in my hometown and support all tracks that I can. Til then, I'll put my butt in a seat and watch every race driver I can but as a fan, I go to where the cars are.

[fastmontgomery15]

I think you are close to correct in what your saying, I'm not sure if your numbers are right on but close enough for discussion. I think the pro late models modifiers and trucks bring not only fans but also bring new racers to the track. The new racers are dreaming of one day running in the higher class , they are not usually wanting to run the lower classes forever.

Your right there is some who will move up and then theres some that will stay in the lower classes because they know they can win week in and week out. Ive seen it since we came into the sport.

[fastmontgomery15]

Bottom line its a HOBBY! If you cant afford to Play sell your car and find a new Hobby!!!!! To me where can you go race a Charger car and when $500 plus two Hoosier tires and now a halfway bonus of a 100 bucks!!!

[fastman]

Bottom line its a HOBBY! If you cant afford to Play sell your car and find a new Hobby!!!!! To me where can you go race a Charger car and when $500 plus two Hoosier tires and now a halfway bonus of a 100 bucks!!!

 

You got it fast 5, if you can't afford it then don't do it and don't bitch about it too.

[abrungot]

Donnie... how long have you been trying to sell your car? Only thing you can do really is part it out.

[Alloutpc17]

This sport is a hobby 100%. If tracks dont pay enough, should it matter? Your not supposed to make money doing it and you never will in hometown, short track racing.

[top_shelf_12]

I don't think I've ever met a weekend warrior racer that has made money. Most of the guys I've known that have driven or drive now know they won't make money. Likewise, I don't know if track owners/promoters make money either with all the expenses they incur. I would hope to say that when the tracks do make money they give back to the racers, which the racers continue to go, which then keeps butts in the seats. This is definitely a sport of love, not profit. But tracks are businesses and do need to keep a bottom line otherwise they will fade away. I'm sure it's tricky to find that medium and there won't be one right or wrong way. What works in Houston may not work in Corpus or name any towns. Don't think any tracks operate the same, the cars aren't the same generally, and the cities aren't the same. One factor not mentioned was the crowd makeup, or what the drivers/teams do as their profession. A driver that say is a lawyer will have more disposable income possibly than say a driver that is a plumber maybe. So many factors that go into the financial side of it and I don't think anyone really makes money doing this on either side.

[fastmontgomery15]

Donnie... how long have you been trying to sell your car? Only thing you can do really is part it out.

AARON I HAVENT REALLY EVEN TRIED I HAVE TALKED ALOT ABOUT IT BUT NEVER TRIED I HAVE HAD MORE PEOPLE COME UP TO ME AND ASK ME IF I AM OR WHEN I DO TO LET THEM KNOW. THE 31 GOT A PRETTY PENNIE FOR HIS CAR LAST MONTH I GUESS ITS WHAT YOU WILL TAKE FOR IT.YOUVE BEEN IN THAT CLASS FOR YEARS MAYBE YOU MAY WANT TO THINK ABOUT UPGRADING TO ANOTHER CLASS.WHERE THE PURSE IS ALITTLE BIGGER.

[MikeReininger]

This sport is a hobby 100%. If tracks dont pay enough, should it matter? Your not supposed to make money doing it and you never will in hometown, short track racing.

Every track in the country is in someones hometown. Besides, it's not about making money. It's about getting a chance to make something back. It definitely helps the lower budget teams.

[Alloutpc17]

This sport is a hobby 100%. If tracks dont pay enough, should it matter? Your not supposed to make money doing it and you never will in hometown, short track racing.

Every track in the country is in someones hometown. Besides, it's not about making money. It's about getting a chance to make something back. It definitely helps the lower budget teams.

If racers are low budget, how are they gonna get a good purse? Maybe if you have a 3 car field.

[MikeReininger]

If racers are low budget, how are they gonna get a good purse? Maybe if you have a 3 car field.

umm what?

[ZIPPYHIPPY]

What is the Value of a Race team to the Track

 

1) An Ample amount of Frustration given to officials and track owners

2) Fans get to see a fight then a race breaks out

3) The return on Recycled Beer Cans alone should be enough

 

Well there's 3 and I wasn't even trying hard

 

Maybe I have an OBSCURED view of the Question....lol

[NickHolt]

What is the Value of a Race team to the Track

 

1) An Ample amount of Frustration given to officials and track owners

2) Fans get to see a fight then a race breaks out

3) The return on Recycled Beer Cans alone should be enough

 

Well there's 3 and I wasn't even trying hard

 

Maybe I have an OBSCURED view of the Question....lol

 

Ummm... Thanks for bringing us back "on topic" there Mr. Pollaro!

 

Nick

[fastmontgomery15]

I FIND IT KINDA ODD THAT ANYONE WOULD WANT TO OPEN A DECUSSION UP ABOUT WHAT KIND OF MONEY A TRACK IS MAKING OR WHAT THEY CHARGE OR THE COST IS. WHEN EVERY TRACK THAT YOU HAVE RACED WITH HAS SUPPORTED ANY AND EVERY FUND RAISER YOU HAVE EVER DONE AND THEY LET USE THEIR FANS AND RACERS TO HELP RAISE MONEY FOR IT TO. WERE IN IT FOR A HOBBY THEIR IN IT FOR BUSINESS. JMO!

[MikeReininger]

I FIND IT KINDA ODD THAT ANYONE WOULD WANT TO OPEN A DECUSSION UP ABOUT WHAT KIND OF MONEY A TRACK IS MAKING OR WHAT THEY CHARGE OR THE COST IS. WHEN EVERY TRACK THAT YOU HAVE RACED WITH HAS SUPPORTED ANY AND EVERY FUND RAISER YOU HAVE EVER DONE AND THEY LET USE THEIR FANS AND RACERS TO HELP RAISE MONEY FOR IT TO. WERE IN IT FOR THEIR IN IT FOR BUSINESS. JMO!

I agree. The discussion was suspicious from the start.

[rebelracewriter]

As I explained to Aaron elsewhere yesterday.....We(as racers) sometimes aren't the smartest....

 

Take dirt guys for instance.....Many spend 10K+ on a Modified chassis, 10K+ on a Modified motor.....plus all the latest high-dollars goodies....and race for $400-500 to win every week at tracks from coast to coast....Now even the Limited Mod/Sportmods are approaching the same costs......and running for even less.....Granted there are those getting by with less....

 

If this were a profit-making hobby......everyone would own a racecar....Pits would be overflowing weekly and promoters would live in palatial mansions.....

 

Truth of the matter is the 'premier' classes will race for a bigger purse than the slower, entry level classes......Always have, always will....

 

Doesn't make it right or wrong.....Just a fact......

[HiTech]

THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE .I ALREADY TRIED IT ....BEER JOINTS ..I SPENT MONEY AND NEVER HAD A BAR TENDER GIVE ANY BACK .SO 100 . PERCENT LOSS ..NOW AT ONE TIME I USE TO SPEND ABOUT $60. a week to RACE THE PURSE WAS BETTER THAN TODAY . OR ITS THE SAME WITH MORE COST ADDED IN ...IT COST AVERAGE 120.00 A WEEK MIN FOR US TO RACE TODAY .. ..SO WHATS CHEAPER .....WHATS MORE FUN ....RACING ..STILL A BARGAIN ..

[abrungot]

I FIND IT KINDA ODD THAT ANYONE WOULD WANT TO OPEN A DECUSSION UP ABOUT WHAT KIND OF MONEY A TRACK IS MAKING OR WHAT THEY CHARGE OR THE COST IS. WHEN EVERY TRACK THAT YOU HAVE RACED WITH HAS SUPPORTED ANY AND EVERY FUND RAISER YOU HAVE EVER DONE AND THEY LET USE THEIR FANS AND RACERS TO HELP RAISE MONEY FOR IT TO. WERE IN IT FOR THEIR IN IT FOR BUSINESS. JMO!

I agree. The discussion was suspicious from the start.

Your right from the standpoint of tracks helping good causes.. don't think I would call it using either.. but if you see this conversation as talking bad about a track your not seeing the big picture.

[soaker]

Aaron, give it up dude. Seems you have been a non supporter of sas for years. Your 11 passes are WAAAAAAY over rated, dirt or asphault. Ive paid for both dirt and asphault. If all you do is race and not tear up anything the only cost diff. Is tires. BUT,,, a street stock at sas can win 1200 in one race by leading at half way and then wining. That is on 1 set of tires, pit passes and fuel for. Wade jones ( for example ONLY) would have to win FIVE races in a row at I 37 to win that much and you can bet your ass that it will take a minimum of two sets of tires and FIVE times the pit passes and fuel for car and hauler. So you do the math brother.

[fastmontgomery15]

BY THE WAY IF YOUR CAR IS ONLY WORTH PARTING OUT HOW MUCH CAN I BUY THOSE BRAND NEW HOOSIERS TIRES THAT TATOR PLUMPING AND SAN ANTONIO SPEEDWAY GAVE YOU FOR THE YOUR 3RD PLACE FINISH THERE.YOU KNOW I HAVE TO HAVE FUN WITH YOU.