abrungot Posted September 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 So reb.. why don't you fix it all then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 Surely you gest Aaron...... First off I don't own any of the tracks. I can't do anything to control why the drivers won't race. No one likes my ideas(as seen on TXSZ). Many people think throwing more money at the problem is the panacea. Well that's been disproven in fact, as well as theory. ~~~~~throws up hands, waves white flag~~~~~ I give up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrungot Posted September 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 Ok... since Reb gives up... everyone is free to put their .02 cents in on if NASCAR sanction is worth it.. maybe Deb or Rick can give us a little more encite on what it does for the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hartracn19 Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 Sure it can be a great thing. Let's face it, SAS is the only NA$CAR sanctioned short track in Texas. That does carry a lot of weight. Look, every maker of every conceivable product has one that has paid to be the OFFICIAL "widget" of NA$CAR. There is a real (read as dollars) reason for associating with NA$CAR. The real questions are: 1.) Does it benefit the drivers... and 2.) Can the track/admin take full advantage of the NA$CAR brand… If the answers to both of these is yes, then keep it. If no to both, drop it. If it is yes to one and no to another, then it needs to be analyzed, and not just a “knee-jerk” response given… JMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kn1ghtblade Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 I kinda agree with Hart on this... If it benifits the track and the drivers then yes... If its just there to have the Nascar name on it and thats the only benifit why even bother... I do like the previous ideas of a Texas Association but I am sure logistics of getting the asphalt tracks to work together and agree on some rules and other things would probably be a really big chore and would take some very good people in high places to make that a reality.... Thanks Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Texas Speedway Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 Why are common rules so hard? In the previous stock car championship events at CC and the previous Oktoberfast at SAS the street stock events were fairly equal, the event in CC was won by a SAS car and in qualifying the top 10 was pretty equal between SAS, CCMS, and Kyle cars if the owners want to make this work it is not hard to do. The Latemodels are already a mixture that could be run together if the tracks would allow it. I do not have any dog in the asphalt fight anymore but seems like things could get done if everyone wants to better the asphalt racing situation. As for what this topic is supposed to be about, to me the owners of the track are going to do what they feel is right to be successful, as for a race car owner / driver it all comes down to do you want to race or not, if you want to race it does not matter if the track is sanctioned by Nascar or Billy Bob's racing association the bottom line is if you want to race you will, if you don't because your life has become to busy with other things then you don't. No owner or sanctioning body can control the drivers and owners if they could my dirt track would have millions of cars and race 7 days a week. Oh yeah Reb green flag now get you some, this makes for some interesting reading! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbotoddie Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 Howdy guys I think some of you are not seeing the big picture. Some of you are assuming if the license was dropped and even the rules being the same that a Kyle car is going to load up and go to SAS or a Houston car is going to load up and go to Kyle. Take it from a guy on the trailer, as soon as you start making these trips, your costs for a night of racing double or more and only one car can win the big purse. If you don't finish in the top 5, the purse is weak. Also, for some of the non late model classes, the purse is pretty thin so breaking even becomes significantly tougher. I would hope to break even is a goal and anymore is a blessing. To throw another wrench into the equation, for a guy to up and run another track, he has to have the parts to change on his car to make it legal and/or competitive to justify the trip. Once again, here is an investment that makes breaking even tougher. FWIW, I don't think requiring a Nascar license to run SAS is keeping anyone away. It is an excuse. Let's face the facts, if you want to race, you are there to win(most guys). To win at SAS, you are up against tough competition and a lot of experience behind them. Look at the frontrunners, they have good equipment and good people. Each year, they raise the bar by getting faster so everyone either has to step up or give up. As well, crashing a car there is not cheap either. The cost to be competitive, anywhere,would appear to be the most daunting deterrent. my .02, add yours What are your opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 No Aaron, you missed the point(s). It's about reasons NOT to race. Owen's show was an 'open' local late model show paying good money, lots of excuses, no cars. Now do I think it's cheap to race....Hell no, I'm not that foolish. (Marc, be quiet) Neither is it to run a race track. I've seen both sides of the fence now. There are benefits to being sanctioned(see above). Rules...it's my understanding that NA$CAR tracks can pretty much make their own rules within parameters, submit them to NA$CAR for approval. They aren't set in stone. Everyone wants rules between tracks to be close, yet when Sarge or I bring up IMCA rules, everyone whines about IMCA's claim rules. Funny thing, look at how many cars showed up for the Supernationals($3000 to win modifieds) plus the top four ALL lost their motor to promoters claim and then were auctioned off. It's my understanding two of them even came back to Texas. From what I saw, ALL pavement track had similar problems with car counts, except for maybe one class. (see reference to four legged racing above) Look at the counts between the Houston dirt and paved tracks, Corpus' dirt and paved tracks, also. I hear more dirt guys trying to come up with excuses to MAKE the next race. Talk to some of them yourself. Their top class(modifieds) race for far less than the pavement late models and are probably close in costs(will vary with engines) Do they whine....sure...but they show up and race too. I really don't think at this point ANYONE cares who sanctions....does it really matter? You don't need IMCA, NASCAR, etc. Owen is right. What you do need is rules and we've seen its not that hard for everyone to run together. Just go with whatever rules will allow the most cars to compete. Instead of getting IMCA sanction a track could have IMCA similar rules. Some of you asphalt guys need to open your eyes up. Heres an idea. Thanksgiving weekend drive down to Corpus and check out some great racing and great car counts for a similar purse where 12 late models would show up in the asphalt world. Actually better not since it could damage some fragile egos when they see where they really stand in the racing world. Oh and reb running a asphalt late model competitively and a dirt mod are way different. You dont need a set of new tires EVERY race in a dirt mod. In fact you can go SEVERAL races. You also dont need to clip the car nearly as often since wrecks arent USUALLY as severe. Asphalt costs a whole lot more and really your not getting much more if any more recognition Sanction and license costs are not keeping people away. They have their reasons....$$$$$$, time, or just dont like the track or promoter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kn1ghtblade Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 The heart of the issue of people staying away that I can see is the $$$$ factor which ties into rules differences... Do NASCAR tracks have to have certain rules for the classes or can they modify their rules to be more common with surrounding tracks? If NASCAR doesnt state the rules that have to be run in all or any of the classes then so be it stay sanctioned and keep the name recognition of NASCAR... If they do require certain rules packages for different classes then maybe the matter needs to be trully looked into if its the prohibiting factor on a set of common rules for the area tracks..... Atleast thats my opponion on that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Owen said it good. The guys that show up every week aren't just there because of the NASCAR sanction. If that was the case...I would like to hear what makes it special?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 when we race at sas it is becuz its a big track to us we get to go fast .it does not even enter our mind it has nascar series on it .it does not matter to us .we would run there anyway .we would love to have more races there but we take what we can get . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford27 Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 we race when we can afford it...bigger purse is important...I would like to think if you could make a top10 you would make your money back and maybe enough to buy your guys a beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyT66 Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 its not like you cant say,heres what we had before nascar,and here is our count now.it was much higher before.a racer looks at the cost from week to week.when he or she goes on that first night,how much will it cost them?sure that points fund is used to brighten it up.but getting in for less is the first bright spot for the local racer.how many would leave sas for dropping nascar?probably none...how many would come back?i would say an easy ten.is that going in a positive direction?.ITS A POSITIVE START.frank t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poorboy Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 Does everyone that races in a Nascar sanctioned series get points money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kn1ghtblade Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 You know this point about being in it for the money is rediculas... Unless your in a late model and are really good, your not going to make money at this... And I am someone just starting to get into it in the Road Runner class... For me its all about fun and competition, and if your in it for the money your barking up the wrong tree becuase what I can see its very very rare someone is going to make alot money at this without a full sponsored ride.... Now I am like Ford though where it would be nice to break even every night and have alittle left over to buy the crew a beer though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Definitive Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 You guys have expensive TOYS,not work vehicles.Bring those toys out and play on Saturdays,and leave the work for Mon. thru Fri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyhorse Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 Does everyone that races in a Nascar sanctioned series get points money? yes. one year (i think 2002) i finished 24th in points (super streets) at sas. only ran one time but still got like 90$ points money. nascar sanction is a good thing , it's how a track uses it that alters the outlook and opinions on how well it works or was working. knightblade- sponsorship is not the save all , and i don't know one person racing L.M.s that could say they even break even let alone make money doing it. you guys seem to be confused when it comes to the phrase yall throw around "racing for money" .........nobody i know races for money , but nobody could race without it, so every little bit helps. everytime purse structure discussions come up you have a group of people that are more than to proud to tell others they don't race for money they race for the love of the sport...........i hope that love can buy fuel and right side tires , atleast a pit pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRACK ANNOUNCER Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 Someone wrote............."""Boyd Raceway dropped their sanction after the first year after the Plato family bought the track and saved 40K plus by doing so. Waco also dropped theirs as well as Cowtown,and we know about their car counts. """ Boyd Raceway is and never has dropped thier IMCA sanction. This is also the same for Waco. Both are still IMCA sanctioned and doing very well. Cowtown has no sanction. Thier car count has gone up close to two years ago. The closing of the track litterally next door helped Cowtown with some of the fan count and car counts. Sanctions are designed to create structure and more. But it is not the sole responsability of a sanction to insure car counts, fan counts and prosperity of a raceway. The responsability to put fans in the stands and drivers in the pits falls in LARGE PART to raceway promoters. Not sanctions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 Does everyone that races in a Nascar sanctioned series get points money? yes. one year (i think 2002) i finished 24th in points (super streets) at sas. only ran one time but still got like 90$ points money. nascar sanction is a good thing , it's how a track uses it that alters the outlook and opinions on how well it works or was working. knightblade- sponsorship is not the save all , and i don't know one person racing L.M.s that could say they even break even let alone make money doing it. you guys seem to be confused when it comes to the phrase yall throw around "racing for money" .........nobody i know races for money , but nobody could race without it, so every little bit helps. everytime purse structure discussions come up you have a group of people that are more than to proud to tell others they don't race for money they race for the love of the sport...........i hope that love can buy fuel and right side tires , atleast a pit pass. crazy now dont for one minute think i like you .lol but i cant believe you said so much that i 100 percent agree with . good job .and now my piont .everyone stands in line for thier pay after the races . and always the first thing that comes out of anyones mouth alot is how much did i make tonight .have to buy new tires .or what nots . we race for fun .we spend alot more than we will ever make . the cost of the car is something you.ll always have to eat .. but we are happy if we win enough to pay for our travels and and pit passes .that is the money that gets us out there the next time .in 1985 86 87 season we kept book s on winnings verses out of pocket .and for three years we spent on average 300 to 500 a year raceing .we thought that was a great investment for haveing a whole lot of fun .go to a bar for one month twice a week and see how much you spend .so it was cheaper to race .now if i figure the last three years the cost of raceing verses winnings verses yearly cost . it would just scare us out of raceing big gap and not in our favor . .so what do we do .we still race but very few times this year .i believ e three races all year .and next year dont know yet . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arts22 Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 You know this point about being in it for the money is rediculas... Unless your in a late model and are really good, your not going to make money at this..... You'll come alot closer to breaking even then any LM will..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck38 Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 I wouldn't change anything regarding rules, points, purses. I think it is all on the right track. NASCAR sanction keep it for all I care. I do race for the fun and I do race for the money. I spend anywhere from 300 to 500 dollars on the race weekend that includes all my travel, dinner and at the track money. I have a sponsor that paid for my new body and that's it. I'm not winning but most nights we have a good time and thank God we get to have the opportunity and everyone is safe. The only thing I would suggest that gets changed is the ticket and pit pass price and too much on the schedule. $20 for adult and $30 for pit that's insane. A family with an 8 and 10 year old costs over $50 just to see the show. Any drinks or food from the concessions costs more. My team of 3 spends $90 dollars just in pit passes and we've started packing sandwiches because I can't afford the outrageous prices in the pit concessions. If you get more fans in the door you can drop the pit pass all together. That would make a lot of drivers happy, just pay the registration fee. More people in the door eat and drink more stuff from the concessions(which probably need to be priced lower also.) I can make a really really good argument just by numbers for this, it is not just my opinion. I personally know several by that I mean about 25 people who would come and watch USRA Trucks at THR & SAS EVERYTIME if they could afford the prices. Instead they watch the Busch race at home because even that is more cheaper for their family than going to a race just once a month. My best friend who probably will be spotting for me on the 7th has a 4 year old that can name every NASCAR driver even guys like Jeff Green but no matter how hard he tries if we race after 10 he's out. AND if you don't believe me look at the stands after about 10 they start emptying by 12 just hardcores that hate being home and families of the drivers who are stuck in the infield waiting to get out. (We've all been there) It is the whole thing of supply and demand. Tracks & Driver can meet the demand but the prices just don't generate enough demand and then everyone starts complaining about the cost, but in the end I've only been racing two years and it is not my money that runs the track so I'll just do what I can to keep the whole thing going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck38 Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 The only thing I would suggest that gets changed is the ticket and pit pass price and too much on the schedule. $20 for adult and $30 for pit that's insane. PS for those who will say, "If you know all the answers then start your own track..." I say give me a few years say 10 or 15, when I get all the money together. I'm going to build a 1/2mile asphalt, 1/2 mile dirt and a nice drag strip. Somewhere around Brownwood or Commanche or maybe down in the valley. Admission will be between $5-8, kids under 16 are free, old people and military will be free (hopefully I can afford to give them seat cousins) and you'll be able to buy a drink and hot dog for $2.50. Pit pass will be the same as admission except drivers admission is included in their $10 dollar registration fee. If your class doesn't finish in 45 minutes then whoever is leading wins, we'll be done by 10 even if there is a full moon. cause kids are afraid of the dark... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oatey220 Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 Dropping or not dropping the NASCAR sanction isn’t going to improve the current situation. Car and Track owners, drivers and promoters all know that poor / low car counts equal low fan attendance. Having a NASCAR sanction doesn’t automatically draw a crowd, but it does have some advantages. I have been around and involved in short track racing most of my life, and I can honestly say that the show put on at this time isn’t worth the price of admission. Call it NASCAR or not, it is still boring. It’s easy to sit back and point out what is wrong with something and much harder to fix it. If all parties got together and stopped butting heads it could be done. 1.Make it more affordable – its fun to watch fast expensive cars but its more fun to watch a bunch of less expensive cars 2.Trim the fat –limit the number of classes 3 classes with 25 or 30 cars put on a much better show than 6 classes with 10 or 15 cars. 3.Involve the family –There is a lot competition for the entertainment dollar, if you include the whole family you have a better chance of repeat business. That’s my $.02 worth you can agree or disagree that’s what so great about the country we live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyhorse Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 i agree with cameron- i tryed and tryed to get people out to watch us race the trucks................as soon as they asked and you mentioned the price of admission (and half the time i was under cutting 3 or 4 $ just to get them there) they said hell no. ps- and like cameron said ........ it doesn't do you any good to explain the circumstances to me or how relatively speaking it's economically sound in comparession to a movie (which it is not because 20th century fox out spent you in advertising by thousands of $ to get the people there in the 1st place) so what does it hurt / what does it gain.........? you'll never know without trying it. but that will never happen in a world of 'need a dollar today instead of two dollars tomorrow' thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poorboy Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 You are absolutely right Crazy. I would say 40% of the people say they can't afford it and the rest are mad that I won't get them in for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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