krusty_rusty Posted June 22, 2003 Report Share Posted June 22, 2003 I want to know what the deal is with the TSRS judgement calls. #11 and #5 bring out the caution they go to the back thats the rule I understand. The #50 spins by himself brings out the caution and returns to his original position? Question #1. Then the #50 has a tire rub and his crew is able to run out on the track and fix the damage, and his penalty is to the back of the field? Question #2. Then multiple cars are able to work on there cars under the red flag, this is ridiculous, and these problems need to somehow be addressed between management, because scoring was screwed for half of the field due to these judgement calls. I'm not even mentioning the 8 laps run under caution due to the fact they couldn't get the right running order under caution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSTONLM04 Posted June 22, 2003 Report Share Posted June 22, 2003 We were working on our car under red but I can honestly say we didn't know it was red. My spotter had come back into the pits and a TSRS official did not come to tell us to stop working on the car because it was red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Racegirl15 Posted June 22, 2003 Report Share Posted June 22, 2003 I agree 100% krusty rusty, #50 should have been black flagged. That was pretty inappropriate for his crew to run out on the track like that. He should have been sent to his trailer. I'm not sure if they counted his points for the night or not. TSRS needs to learn to make the same calls for all of the drivers. Whether or not they like it, #50 caused that caution, so he should have been sent to the back just like #5 & #11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krusty_rusty Posted June 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2003 For me I would like to see some kind of penalty for that if ya'll would have still been running really strong. I can't comment specifically on your problem, but you probably had something fairly significant wrong with your car, because it appeared that you were just riding around trying to stay out of trouble. Even when the #50 car was told to go to the back he still restarted in front of you and you tried to get back around him but he wouldn't let you, but they still allowed for the restart to happen. Their were alot of unhappy people thinking they got a raw deal at the end of that race. I'm looking forward to Houston with transponders, so we take some of these judgement calls out. Here's another question, how about spending a little extra money and making them a permanent fixture with the series. I know it costs extra money and you want to keep the series cheap, but why as a racer would you want to spend you entry fee and get screwed on scoring, to me it seems like a worth while investment. Our thoughts and prayers are with that photographer what a horrible accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSTONLM04 Posted June 22, 2003 Report Share Posted June 22, 2003 Even when the #50 car was told to go to the back he still restarted in front of you and you tried to get back around him but he wouldn't let you, but they still allowed for the restart to happen. When the 50 was sent to the back I never had any intention of starting in front of him. We were so down on power it would only have been a matter of dropping the green for him to get by. I did the same with the 5 and 11 when they were sent back. I only pulled up on the 50 to mess with him a little bit. The scorers knew (via my spotter) that I was always going to restart dead last to stay out of the way. I really like the idea of transponders but I think it's a bit late in the season now to institute them, maybe next year. Transponders and racing back to the line on a yellow, what a concept! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CR85 Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 1.) It would be nice to have a TSRS official define what is deemed "dirty driving". Are these cars just suppose to follow the leader and never touch another car? If so, let them qualify, roll the dice to establish the starting order, then put them on the trailer. These cars are racing on short tracks. My opinion is that TSRS should allow a certain amount of "rubbin". The fans sure seem to like it. There is a difference between taking someone out and getting them a little loose. The flagman could always point the black flag at an offender and thereby warn the driver. After a number of warnings, the car could then be black flagged for the race. 2.) TSRS needs to state the conditions that will send a car to the back. If a car A clearly initiates contact with car B and causes car B to spin, shouldn't car A go the the back? I would think so. If both cars were fighting for position, I could see both cars going to the back if the situation in not conclusive as to who initiated the contact. If a car spins on its own, it definately should go to the back. There have been numerous instances where some cars go to the back due to a spin, yet other times, they get their position back. It seems very inconsitent to me. I think that most teams just want an equal opportunity to compete for the win. Can someone with TSRS please clarify this for us? CR85 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racergirl12 Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 I AGREE THAT EVERYBODY IS VERY UPSET WITH THE JUDGEMENT CALLS THE TSRS OFFICIALS HAVE MADE THE PAST COUPLE OF RACES. THE LAST RACE WE HAD IN KYLE WE HAD THE SAME PROBLEMS. THE OFFICIALS NEED TO MAKE THE RULES AND GO BY THEM. THEY NEED TO STOP MAKING CERTAIN RULES FOR CERTAIN PEOPLE AND OTHER PEOPLE HAVE A DIFFERENT SET OF RULES TO GO BY. IT IS A BUNCH OF CRAP!!! I UNDERSTAND RUBBING IS RACING, AND IN EVERY TYPE OF RACING THERE WILL BE RUBBING. THAT IS NOT THE PROBLEM HERE. THE PROBLEM IS CERTAIN PEOPLE CAUSE A YELLOW AND THEY ARE SENT TO THE BACK, OTHERS CAUSE THE YELLOW AND GO BACK TO THEIR POSITION. IT IS NOT FAIR AND IS MAKING MANY PEOPLE VERY UPSET WITH THIS SERIES. I'M SORRY, BUT YOU CAN'T TRY TO MAKE EVERYBODY HAPPY ON THE TRACK. YOU HAVE TO MAKE RULES AND YOU HAVE TO GO BY THEM. THEN THERE'S THE WHOLE ISSUE ABOUT CARS GOING INTO THE PITS ON YELLOWS (THAT COUNT) AND REDS, AND COMING BACK AND EITHER NOT GOING LAP DOWN, OR EVEN WORSE GETTING THEIR POSITION BACK. THE #11 CAR WENT INTO THE PITS UNDER RED WHEN THE PHOTOGRAPHER WAS HIT. HE THEN CAME BACK ON THE TRACK AND REGAINED HIS POSITION. WHAT IS UP WITH THAT?? AT FIRST I THOUGHT THE LAST KYLE RACE WAS JUST A BAD NIGHT OF CALLS, BUT IT KEEPS HAPPENING AND ITS UNFAIR. WHY DO WE PAY ALL THIS MONEY TO RACE WHEN CERTAIN PEOPLE ALWAYS GET SPECIAL TREATMENT AND THE REST OF US GET TO "FIN FOR OURSELVES". IT IS A BUNCH OF CRAP AND ALOT OF US ARE TIRED OF IT. THEY NEED TO MAKE THE CALLS AND STICK WITH THEM AND KEEP THE SAMES RULES FOR EVERY RACE AND FOR EVERY DRIVER, NO MATTER WHAT TRACK HE CAME FROM. THERE SHOULD BE NO FAVORITES!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slash Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 I have to agree with brad on the call with us working on the car in the pits during the red flag. When brad came off the track the race was not under a red flag condition, It was not untill we returned to the track that we realized the race had been red flaged. From that point on we were just attempting to stay out of the way and limp our way around with a hurt motor. Brad made the call to stay at the rear on the restarts and allow everyone else to race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivicic Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 racergirl12, The reason the 11 car got his spot back was because the race had not started yet. They never took the green flag or completed a lap. As for smoe of the other calls I have to agree there were some bad judgement calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racegirl Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 As a TSRS Official, I feel the need to answer some of the questions that have been asked! As for some cars spinning and getting there positions back, when it is decided that the spin was caused by track conditions the driver is returned to their posistions. As for working on the car under red flag conditions it is my understanding we ALLOW drivers to work on their cars under red. But they will start in the rear when the green comes back out. In the case of the 11 car, IVICIC is correct the race had not yet started thus giving him his position, the 94 was also allowed to come in and repair his car and given his position back! There was a penatly for the 50 car coming onto the track to fix the car, he was sent to the rear. On whether there were bad calls made, who knows. Everyone sees things from different sides! So now we move on to our July Houston race!!! TSRS PIT STEWARD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debwill Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 I heard that THR charged $18 for Saturday night's race. Is that true? WOW . . . that's really steep even with ROMCO, TSRS, etc. I know TMS charged a lot for the ROMCO race, but it also included a professional series race (Indy cars) in the admission price. I'm almost glad I had other plans on Saturday night and didn't have to shell out that kind of money for a local racing program. I would have been unpleasantly surprised upon my arrival! Debbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewRacer Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 I agree that there were some bad calls, but man that was one great race to watch if you were a Fan. It was well worth the price I paid to get in. That was wild as heck. OH yea ... The ROMCO race was O.K. too . lol T.S.R.S. Drivers PUT ON A GOOD SHOW. Who said you can not run 3 wide At THR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVCMNGR1 Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 I would like to address some of Krusty's concerns if I may. (The #50 spins by himself brings out the caution and returns to his original position? ) Not really a question even though it is punctuated as one, but still needs addressed. #50 raced the # 27 clean and made a pass only to be repaid by being punted in turn 3 and spinning us out. Don't believe it? I'll bring the mangled rear bumper to Houston if you would like to stop by and have a look. If a car spins on his own, then I agree they should be sent to the back. We were hit hard enough to bend the bumper under the fuel cell. The correct call was made to give him his spot back and I have seen it done many times at different race tracks. (Question #1. Then the #50 has a tire rub and his crew is able to run out on the track and fix the damage, and his penalty is to the back of the field?) Actually question #2, sort of. Yep, it was a bad move on my part. The adrenaline was pumping and when he hit the pit exit I tore the fender off. I knew better but the old brain was on auto-pilot. As for the penalty, we would have done what ever the TSRS officials told us to do. I think being sent to the back was appropriate. You can rest assured that mistake will not be repeated. I apologize to the staff and officials for my brain fart. (Question #2. Then multiple cars are able to work on there cars under the red flag, this is ridiculous, and these problems need to somehow be addressed between management, because scoring was screwed for half of the field due to these judgement calls.) Where is the question? Oh well, I would still like to comment. There are not enough officials or staff to watch every car. Obviously during the race they will be up at the track. When the teams come to the pits under green or yellow, the last thing on their minds is if the race went red. I'm sure that had the 04 team known it was red flagged they would have done the right thing. (I'm not even mentioning the 8 laps run under caution due to the fact they couldn't get the right running order under caution) Well Krusty, if you have a better way of getting them back into the correct order, I would sure like to hear it. Problem is most drivers will not give up a spot unless they know why and I don't blame them. So you get 2 cars riding beside each other for 4-5 laps until the officials can straighten it out. This is not a new problem to TSRS, THR or any other racing series. So just get over it. On the restart 04 waived us by. You shouldn't get so excited about things that don't concern you. Pinkracegirl. You are entitled to your opinion. I don't think that somebody serving in your capacity should be expressing them on this forum. Racergirl12. I don't think you should be allowed to have a user name so close to an officials name. Your post are inflamatory and with out merit for the most part. Don't bother answering back as I will not be reading ANYTHING ELSE YOU POST. LOL. Dave Szostek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJN Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 I won't pretend that I have no interest in defending our team....but I do want to defend the series. If you find a racing series that has no one complaining about rules/calls/expenses or any number of other things please forward me the info so we can start building a car to run in it. TSRS is not perfect!!!! This should not be a news flash to anyone. Come on folks, it is a brand new series trying to get off the ground and it seems to me that there is going to be some growing pains along the way. Would you rather go back to SA guys running in SA, Houston guys running in Houston and THR guys running in THR? I think the officials are doing there best to keep the show moving while being as fair as possible. Do you think that we should have instant replay? Stop the race every couple of laps and let them review the tape then we can start back up again? Judgement calls by their very definition are up to "someone's" judgement. They do the best they can with the information available at the time and that is all we can expect of them. Find a better system and I am sure they would be willing to discuss it. As far as the #50 team is concerned.......we made a huge mistake when we entered the track to work on the car.......no doubt about it........the only explanation is that under the circumstances we had a huge lack of communication....the driver thought they were going to meet him at the bottom of the pit entrace but he told them to come to the pit entrance, when he went to make the turn he saw the guys standing there and pulled to them....it was dangerous and shouldn't have happened....it won't happen again....we took the penalty given us by the officials and moved on. As for getting our position back before the repair I think the officials decided the whole incident that led to us being in the infield was a racing incident and not anyone's fault. If they had put us to the back then they would have had to put the #27 back there also since he had our rear wheels off the ground in the middle of 3 and 4. Not his fault though because we were slowing to avoid running over the #1 who was slowing to not run over the #22. So you see the dilemma that that can create. Who's fault was the caution? #22 for getting loose? #1 for not running him over? #50 for not slamming into the #1? #27 for being the first domino pushed? Hard to say. Now try to do it with anxious fans waiting for a green flag and 20 spotters saying why am I being picked on? Just my two sense worth!!! My best wishes to the Merideth family for a speedy recovery. I hope your wounds heal quickly and your spirits are lifted knowing your racing family is praying for you and your loved ones. God Bless!! Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckman Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 Joe I think you're right on the money with your comments. Right now is the time the drivers pull together and help make this series work.If not TSRS will not last.If anyone thinks they had a bad night,just think about Tom,I hope he has a speedy recovery.I hope all you Houston guys have alot better luck in the next race. White Knuckle Racing sould have the car put together by then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mary Ann Naumann Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 I want to know what the deal is with the TSRS judgement calls. #11 and #5 bring out the caution they go to the back thats the rule I understand. The #50 spins by himself brings out the caution and returns to his original position? Question #1. Then the #50 has a tire rub and his crew is able to run out on the track and fix the damage, and his penalty is to the back of the field? Question #2. Then multiple cars are able to work on there cars under the red flag, this is ridiculous, and these problems need to somehow be addressed between management, because scoring was screwed for half of the field due to these judgement calls. I'm not even mentioning the 8 laps run under caution due to the fact they couldn't get the right running order under caution. Hello everyone this is Mary Ann Naumann, TSRS Founder, let me first start off with an update on what should be our first concern of the entire evening @ THR for TSRS, that is TOM MEREDITH, the THR track photographer, a very well known, respected, longtime photographer who is still in the hospital. He is at Brackenridge hospital room 914. He had to have a rod & pins placed in his leg & ankle on his right leg and he tore all the major ligaments in his left knee and expects to be going through more surgery for that. Tom had two very large cuts on his forehead, CT and other scans say NO head or internal injuries, thank God. But he does have a lot of recovery time ahead of him. Our prayers are with him and his wife. I would like to thank a very special Angel, everyone that has anything to do with racing just loves this lady, that lady is Dean Sandefur. She is always right there. Dean spent most of that evening and way into the early morning hours right beside Tom's wife at the hospital. And we must not forget the driver that will most likely never get that image out of his mind, Larry Stein along with the Officials, racefans and children that saw it happen. I ask you to keep Tom in your Prayers, his wife and all those that were involved and that witnessed it. Tom's recovery will be long and hard and we are blessed he is here to be able to recover. God Bless you Tom, I have known and respected you and your wife for many years in the racing, I know you were where you were that night, because of your love for racing as with all of us. Now, there are a couple of negative comments from this website that I would like to address as MAN RACING Promotions... First one is, the fingerpointing, what unfair statements being made after what we all witnessed before this race even started! Maybe there are those that can put something like this behind them and move on into the show with no kinks! Even without a tragedy like this, there is never a race put on with no kinks, from the Officials to the Drivers, Crews, Clean up, every aspect that it takes to put a race on! You know life is way too short to say things about people that hurt them to their hearts. That is not why I started this series. We have some of the most incredible drivers, crews, families, Officials/Staff that make this series what it is. TSRS has 90% of its Officials/Staff that donate their time and efforts for expenses and the rest that do get paid, work for peanuts! It is not only a day of racing that they work, just like the drivers do not load their cars up on a Saturday night event and come back the next race and unload to race! Your life is devoted to the sport that you love. There needs to be no fingerpointing here, it needs to be prayers being sent to the Meredith family. Prayers to those that witnessed everything and for those blaming themselves for any participation in this unfortunate night of racing. I thought this website was for the good of racing, not for those to stand back and give points of view that are damaging to racers, Officials, racetracks, series and even the racefans! I am writing this email with a lot of hurt in my heart and a lot of sadness to where we all have forgotten humanity and what we are all about. A family of racers, there when we need one another, there when those we know and love need one another, from support of kind words and thoughts to financial help giving out of love for one another. Life is way too short to put this much effort into something you love and give of yourself, take time away from your loved ones when sometimes they are in need, to read negativity like this. You know the easy way to Officiate a race is to not have to make judgment calls, just send any and everyone that was involved, touches, gets touched or spins to avoid to the rear! Incidents do not always happen @ the time that the yellow is brought out, there are sometimes, laps that lead up to the end result that brings that yellow out. Then as Officials, we have only minutes, sometimes seconds to gather input and make a final call and we have to live with it. Not an easy task, I can assure you, then there are times, not one Official even sees the incident, now tell me, how do call that one? Think it does not happen. We as a series, travel from track to track, we are given time restraints that are sometimes, near impossible to accomplish, just the pressure from that is enough. We do not have the control of every situation that goes on, due to we are the guest of the track and track promoters/owners. Then you get such negative input from outsiders that force pressure onto the series and the track promoters/owners, that does not help the situation. Krusty Rusty, you seem to have an incredible set of eyes, maybe you should consider a night as an Official, I need people like you that can see all of this in one race and count laps too! We were working on our car under red but I can honestly say we didn't know it was red. My spotter had come back into the pits and a TSRS official did not come to tell us to stop working on the car because it was red. As far as working on a car in the pit area under a red, there is no rule that says you cannot, you must go to the rear when you come back onto the track, but you can work on your car! I AGREE THAT EVERYBODY IS VERY UPSET WITH THE JUDGEMENT CALLS THE TSRS OFFICIALS HAVE MADE THE PAST COUPLE OF RACES. THE LAST RACE WE HAD IN KYLE WE HAD THE SAME PROBLEMS. THE OFFICIALS NEED TO MAKE THE RULES AND GO BY THEM. THEY NEED TO STOP MAKING CERTAIN RULES FOR CERTAIN PEOPLE AND OTHER PEOPLE HAVE A DIFFERENT SET OF RULES TO GO BY. IT IS A BUNCH OF CRAP!!! I UNDERSTAND RUBBING IS RACING, AND IN EVERY TYPE OF RACING THERE WILL BE RUBBING. THAT IS NOT THE PROBLEM HERE. THE PROBLEM IS CERTAIN PEOPLE CAUSE A YELLOW AND THEY ARE SENT TO THE BACK, OTHERS CAUSE THE YELLOW AND GO BACK TO THEIR POSITION. IT IS NOT FAIR AND IS MAKING MANY PEOPLE VERY UPSET WITH THIS SERIES. I'M SORRY, BUT YOU CAN'T TRY TO MAKE EVERYBODY HAPPY ON THE TRACK. YOU HAVE TO MAKE RULES AND YOU HAVE TO GO BY THEM. THEN THERE'S THE WHOLE ISSUE ABOUT CARS GOING INTO THE PITS ON YELLOWS (THAT COUNT) AND REDS, AND COMING BACK AND EITHER NOT GOING LAP DOWN, OR EVEN WORSE GETTING THEIR POSITION BACK. THE #11 CAR WENT INTO THE PITS UNDER RED WHEN THE PHOTOGRAPHER WAS HIT. HE THEN CAME BACK ON THE TRACK AND REGAINED HIS POSITION. WHAT IS UP WITH THAT?? AT FIRST I THOUGHT THE LAST KYLE RACE WAS JUST A BAD NIGHT OF CALLS, BUT IT KEEPS HAPPENING AND ITS UNFAIR. WHY DO WE PAY ALL THIS MONEY TO RACE WHEN CERTAIN PEOPLE ALWAYS GET SPECIAL TREATMENT AND THE REST OF US GET TO "FIN FOR OURSELVES". IT IS A BUNCH OF CRAP AND ALOT OF US ARE TIRED OF IT. THEY NEED TO MAKE THE CALLS AND STICK WITH THEM AND KEEP THE SAMES RULES FOR EVERY RACE AND FOR EVERY DRIVER, NO MATTER WHAT TRACK HE CAME FROM. THERE SHOULD BE NO FAVORITES!!! Racegirl12: Lets start with your quote of favorites! I don't know why this always seems to be the answer to everyone's feeling about a race once it is complete! When you are with a particular car, most of the time, that is where your eyes are 99% of the time, you know when they go high, low, spin, touch someone, get touched by someone, who is in front of them and who is behind them, when a call is made for them or against them. Officials are watching, just in this particular race with the least amount starting 19 cars, all 19 cars! If 5 or 6 cars are running tight, most Officials are trying to keep an eye on that bunch, we know we are all about to have to give input to help with a call that might be happening very soon! Once something happens, you only have moments to gather that information and make a call! Race fans love the crashes, but hate the time it takes to clean up and by having the "JUDGMENT CALL" races, you are already 50% wrong because no one ever thinks they are wrong and should have to go to the rear, because what we are saying when we say go to the rear, we have chosen the other driver or drivers over them! It is human nature. Now, I want to finish with this, you have mentioned several incidents above, where can you say these calls were made because of what track these cars came from. None of the above came from the same track, a car to me on the racetrack is a car # and the Officials that work for me feel the same way and if they do not, if they work for free or peanuts, they will not be with the series. TSRS Officials/Staff dealt with things so out of the ordinary from the beginning of the race. It is statements like I have been reading last night and today, that KILL RACING! I am saddened that ANYONE would feel good about pointing fingers at others and hurt them to their hearts! This is not what TSRS is about or will ever be. I hope that you truly think before you point on this website or to others or about others. We get back what we give, whether it is a smile or a frown. Sincerely, Mary Ann Naumann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloyd#5 Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 Don't get me wrong i think TSRS is a great series and i wouldnt want to run any other series but there are some serious questions they need to answer and get straight because some of their calls are rubbing some people the wrong way. As far as someone spinning and bringing out a yellow and NOBODY going to the back that is ridiculous. hey i got spun also but i went to the back same thing should go for the 50 or anyone else whoever they are. And working on the car on the track, very very dangerous for everyone even the drivers out there but could have been honest mistake. But the main gripe here is about scoring not knowing where cars are and letting cars get their positions back on restarts but hopefully for the good of the series the officials can get these problems addressed and fixed for the houston race. And even with all our bad luck this year this is the funnest racing i've been involved with so far. I hope yall dont take this as a bash to anyone because its not, just a little constructive criticism. And mary ann keep your head up you're doing a great job and we know yall are learning as we go, as are the drivers. lloyd alexander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racergirl12 Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 I TOTALLY AGREE WITH LLOYD. I APLOLOGIZE FOR COMING ACROSS SO STRONG. MARY ANN AND THIS SERIES HAS DONE A GREAT JOB GETTING THINGS GOING AND IT IS A BLAST TRAVELING AND BEING AT DIFFERENT TRACKS. BUT THE ISSUE IS THE INCONSISTANCY WITH CALLS. I UNDERSTAND EVERYBODY IS DOING THE BEST THEY CAN AND THEY CANT SEE EVERYTHING. I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT RUBBING IS RACING AND THINGS HAPPEN. I KNOW ALL OF THIS,I'VE BEEN AROUND RACING FOR A WHILE AND I KNOW EVERYONE CANT BE HAPPY WITH ALL THE CALLS ALL THE TIME. BUT IN THIS SITUATION IT IS NOT THE FACT THAT TOO MANY PEOPLE WE SENT TO THE BACK FOR NO REASON (WHICH MOST OF THE TIME IS THE COMPLAINT OF MOST PEOPLE). I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT WE HAVNT BEEN INVOLVED IN AN ENTIRE RACE SO I HAVE BEEN WATCHING THE WHOLE RACE AND NOT JUST MY DRIVER,SO I DO SEE WHAT GOES ON IN A FANS PERSPECTIVE; THERE ARE THINGS THAT HAPPEND THAT ARENT VERY FAIR. WE ALL GO OUT THERE TO PUT ON AGREAT SHOW FOR THE FANS AND TO HAVE A GOOD TIME AND WHEN WE DO OUR BEST AND CRASH OUT AND GET BACK IN AND ARE EVEN A COUPLE LAPS DOWN AND OTHER PEOPE GET WRECKED OR SPIN OUT AND GET THEIR SPOTS BACK , EVEN THOUGH WE ARENT NECESSARILY IN THE RUNNING, IT STILL ISNT FAIR TO THE OTHER DRIVERS WHO HAVE A CHANCE. I DO LIKE THIS SERIES ALOT AND I KNOW THERE ARE ALOT OF THINGS YOU GUYS ARE STILL WORKING THROUGH, BUT IF WE HAVE SET RULES ON POSITION'S AND YELLOWS, AND REDS AND ALL THOSE THINGS WE NEED TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY IS ONTHE SAME PAGE SO THERE CAN BE NO ARGUMENTS ONCE THE CALL IS MADE. I THINK IN THIS SITUATION THERE IS ALOT OF GRAY AREA AND ALOT OF PEOPLE ARE CONFUSED AS TO WHY MOST OF THE CALLS ARE MADE. AGAIN, I APOLOGIZE FOR UPSETTING ANYBODY, I JUST WANTED TO GIVE MY OPINION AND OBVIOUSLY IT HAS STRIKED SOME FEELINGS IN SOME OF YOU GUYS. GOOD LUCK IN HOUSTON EVERYBODY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloyd#5 Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 SVC why should pinkracergirl not be able to post here? is she an official? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 Mary Ann, Many of your points are very well made and I agree with most of what you have to say. However, when you say that you are disappointed in the website I just don't see where you're coming from. I quote you here: "I thought this website was for the good of racing, not for those to stand back and give points of view that are damaging to racers, Officials, racetracks, series and even the racefans!" Again I quote you: "Life is way too short to put this much effort into something you love and give of yourself, take time away from your loved ones when sometimes they are in need, to read negativity like this." First off, Texas Speed Zone has published every press release you or Lisa or Chuck or anyone else associated with the TSRS series has sent to me. In addition, I have actively solicited information from you and your staff about the TSRS. Secondly, I fail to see where this site is "damaging to racers, Officials, racetracks, series and even the racefans." People have a right to their opinion and as long as they abide by the rules of this forum they are encouraged to express those opinions. At times those opinions will not agree with your opinion. Sorry. I hope you are not suggesting that TSZ remove posts that are negative towards TSRS in some way or another, because this will not happen as long as I am associated with TSZ. In case you haven't noticed, I take my own share of flack on the forum too. If you really think about it, Mike Sepich, Robert Mullins, Wayne Norrell, Neil Upchurch or any other person attempting to make racing better for all of us take a certain amount of critisizm. I'm sure they don't like to hear it, but really, it's just part of the territory. Finally, there is a good reason why I always had the rule (both at SAS and TPS) that if you were involved in bringing out a caution you went to the back. I do not have a built in "fault detector" and neither do you. If you're involved, go to the back. Period. It's simple. Don't put just the one at fault to the back. Put anyone involved to the back. It is not a perfect rule, but it sure is a lot better than trying to judge every situation with a non-functioning "fault detector." Thanks for listening.. and, like everyone else here, it's just my .02 cents. Nick Holt [edited for two bad grammer errors by Nick Holt, 6/23/03] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slash Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 lloyd#5, You are correct! why can't pinkracergirl post here? This is a great forum for drivers, crews and FANS of all types to be able to interact with each other on all kinds of subjects related to racing. But we must also understand that there is a place and time for everything. I don't think this is the place to critisize the TSRS officals, that should be left up to the driver and crew cheif to express their concerns directly with them behind closed doors!!!!!! If a fan has a question or a point of view well then i beleave it is up to all of us to answer it with an objective answer. Slash 04 crew member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckLicata Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Just my .02 worth.. I'm not going to try and address the big issues here, everyone else is doing it..So, here's a couple statements that I'd like to make (keep in mind, these are MY opinions)... 1) There is absolutely, positively, undeniably NO FAVORITISM WHAT-SO-EVER with TSRS officials and the drivers! As Mary Ann first said when we started this series, when we're at the race track, we see "car numbers" and NOT "car drivers." It's up to all of you if you think bad calls are being made, but I can PERSONALLY attest to the fact that when a call is made, there is NO mention of a particular car number to "move to the back" or "give them their position back," in terms of giving an advantage to one or more particular drivers. Having seen this go on before, I will stand by my statement here and I challenge ANYONE to give me proof otherwise... 2) TSRS is a growing series, and in our infancy we're going to take our lumps and bumps as we try to grow into a respectable series. And, not only do we have weekly meetings to "iron out the rough parts," but we engage in conversations from officials from other series to try and learn from them. I can't tell you how many times I've talked to Russ Martin (the ROMCO series announcer) and picked his brain (I respect Russ to the utmost)... 3) As has been said many-a-time, no series is perfect and TSRS qualifies in that vein. However, from my perspective as an media director/announcer/official, I would like to take a second and thank EACH AND EVERY DRIVER AND CREW MEMBER of TSRS. Never before have I felt so comfortable with drivers/crew that I can go up to any of our series drivers or crew members and not only feel welcome as a TSRS official, but share a great conversation, be it about the races, TSRS, my "little radio show" or NASCAR! Okay, just my two cents...thank you again to Nick and Jason for this web site, and to everyone here who posts and reads posts. Remember, no matter where we come from or how different we are, we ALL have the SAME THING in common---WE LOVE RACING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Maybe TSRS could consider going to the "all involved rule" to eliminate judgement calls. I know there were a couple calls that left me scratching my head. I asked several officials and got the reasoning. I may not have agreed with it, but understood why it was made. Did I see things different, yes, does this make me right, certainly not. Depending on viewpoint, friendship(fan loyalty), etc., things will always look different to everyone. The "all involved rule" is not the cure-all, just ask Heath Stewart in the ROMCO race, but it will cut down on judgement calls, that might get missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 I wasn't at the race Saturday, but I've always felt strongly about the judgement call issue. It seems that I'm usually in the minority at the track, but I've always been in favor of making judgment calls rather than sending both cars to the rear. I work in an environment where I have to make split second judgment calls on a daily basis, and this may explain my bias toward that system, but I think there are other factors. I think the bigger problem in our sport is the racers' inability to accept the judgement of the officials. Practically every professional and amateur sport involves the use of judgement calls made by officials - there's no judgement machine used by baseball umpires. The difference between the racing that I've been involved in and other sports is that, in other sports, the athletes accept the judgement calls and move on. In racing, at least around here, a judgement call is called "favoritism" and is complained about for several days if not weeks. My beef with the "all involved" rule is that every call will take its toll on an "innocent" victim. At least with the judgement call system, innocent victims will only be penalized part of the time. If I raced at a track where outright favoritism went on, I might not feel this way, but I honestly have not seen this happening. I think we as racers should accept the judgement of the officials in most cases, realize that they will not always be right, and stop complaining about the calls for days after the races are over. If we disagree with a call, speak to an official during or immediately after the race. After that discussion, move on and focus on next week, not the "bad calls" that were made this week. Maybe next time the call will be in our favor. cs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CR85 Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Mary Ann, I really enjoy the TSRS series and think that everyone is doing their very best to make it one of the most exciting and successful racing events in this part of the country. I tip my hat to all of the TSRS officials for all of the hard work that they do for all of us. My previous post was simply an attempt to try to clarify some unstated rules and to offer some possible solutions to these issues. I apologize to you or anyone else that I may have offended. You will always have my full support. [bash edited out by Nick Holt, 6/21/03] CR85 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.