wonderbg8 Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 As for knowing how to run a series, Maryann definitely runs her series with a lot of class and she looks very professional, but again saying this, it is not NASCAR. Why make the drivers spend more money buying matching shirts, when they spend enough as is on the car, gas and tires already? For the rules part, she says that the rules are the same as THR but yet she changes them in different situations? If you make a rule and say that’s how it's going to be, then you need to put that rules in to effect everytime that kind of situation happens and not depending on the driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justanotherjoe Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 I was going to post a smart reply to all the bickering.............but then I thought about it and decided that some good is bound to come out of it and that it would just start more mud tossing. I think that all parties involved have the intention of making the sport move forward.........just lots of different ideas on how to do it. I hope everyone is able to keep things in perspective though. Some folks seem to take things more personally than intended. Still haven't heard Krusty's explanation for insisting #50 be put to the back after being spun out by the #27? Do you agree that if they had put the #50 back then they would have had to put the #27 back also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackyracefan Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 I have been reading all of this and I finally decided to post. I have been going to THR for years now and they have always had a good car count in the Late Model class until this year. This is the way that I see it, she basically stole those cars, they had a place to run every Saturday night unlike the other series that got started. Romco, Legends, Trucks, Pro Sedan they had no where to run on a regular basis. But those Late Models did. That’s just how I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustaFan Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 Wacky, How can you say she "stole" them? Everybody competing in TSRS made a decision to run this series. As far as I know, nobody was forced to run TSRS. I personally feel that everybody running in the series has moved up a class. TSRS gives the competitors a chance to run against teams from different tracks. The money is better, the time between races is longer and the competition is stronger and you can run several different tracks and still be in the hunt for a championship. That is what makes TSRS so attractive to so many teams. I couldn't be happier with the series. I only wonder why more teams have not joined TSRS. I guess that why they make vanilla and chocolate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 JustaFan, You are 100% right. Nobody stole anything. TSRS just offered drivers at THR an alternative and many jumped ship for whatever reason. T And Wackyfan, you have a vaild point too. The fact is that last season the THR Late Models averaged over 15 cars per race. This year they are averaging about 7 per race. That's half the class. And if you dig deeper you will see that the majority of those who are missing from THR are now running with the TSRS. So, from the driver's point of view it was simply a better option. But from a THR fan's point of view what used to be the premier class at THR is only a shadow of its former self. Nobody's right. Nobody's wrong. It's all just a matter of perspective. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackyracefan Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 I can completely understand but I still think that she did. Nothing will change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snooky03 Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Heres the deal! No one stole anything! People make decisions to race where they race based on several reasons. Here are a few or you could say my .05 for this thread. You have some late model drivers competing in other series (ex. Todd Mc- Trucks) Some drivers just want to run when they want to. ( Bobby Joe New has and hasn't run THR and TSRS) Some of the weekly regulars have had problems with their cars. (Robert Stewart, Todd Mc., Larry Stine, Chuckman Buxton) Houston,D/FW,San Antonio and outlying area drivers limiting weekly travel due to the expense. The economy in general has made the once a month racing attractive. ( maybe the concept of stock car racing at THR, SAS and other tracks that are struggling going to racing every other weekend may spark a new interest with drivers and fans. Sometimes when you limit access to something the return upon presentation is greater.) Then finally you have some conflicts with management. When I talk to fellow drivers, I usually hear time and money! Family time is important to all. Most of the late model drivers have been in this class of cars for some time and really are out for the fun! I think the concept of monthly racing has become very attractive with todays economy but no one stole anything1 Whats that smell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchellracer Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Sorry for the delay, however, as most of my inner circle of friends know, I have been very ill and was undergoing medical procedures (ps thanks for all the calls and well wishes) Thank you Kathy for correcting me on the opening of Thunder Hill, I was off a year, I was just trying to post that I didn't attend Thunder Hill from opening day. A great friend of mine invited my husband and I out to Thunder Hill on our anniversary and we were hooked. My husband had been involved in drag racing (in his younger days) and I had been involved with road course with SCCA, so this was like going to a candy store for us. We ran into an old friend of ours and she introduced us to her boyfriend who we have now helped sponsor since. Now for my list and my debate over the Late Model drivers The list is from THR program dated 7/27/02 The remarks to the side of each driver will indicate how many of the 5 races of TSRS they have ran. (I would consider 3 out of 5 would be regular) THR Driver TSRS Events (of 5) Todd McLemore 5 Leland Waddell 4 James Reeder 0 Shawn Paul Lehman 0 Michael Cullen 0 Ronny New 4 (he may have run 5) Ryan Englehardt 4 Brad Hudak 5 Mike Yale 5 Ian Webster 4 Steve Sims 4 Larry Stein 1 Charlie Turner 0 Charles Buxton 1 Robert Tiemann 0 Bobby Joe New 1 (although his car has run, he hasn't run but 1 race) Chris Schild 0 Jeff Pollard 5 Teresa Gural 3 Richard Norman 0 JD Dusek 1 Keith Sandefur 0 Brian Schild 5 Ron Chambers 0 Robby New 0 Ricky Gavin 0 Wayne Walker 0 Joel Hammond 0 Brian Hughes 0 Joey Schillings 0 Alvin Stewart 0 (registered driver @ THR no points @ 7/27/02) Joel Hammond 0 (registered driver @ THR no points @ 7/27/02) Matt Brune 0 (registered driver @ THR no points @ 7/27/02) Danny Stewart 0 (registered driver @ THR no points @ 7/27/02) Stephen Rogers 0 (registered driver @ THR no points @ 7/27/02) Michael Jones 5 These are the 38 registered drivers from THR for 2002 as posted in program 12 are regulars on TSRS (3 of which run both THR and TSRS) 4 more have run TSRS once Now remember my figures from other post was from ALL drivers listed from THR inception here is more THR drivers no longer driving Late Models @ THR (year of last registration for late models) 2001 (13 drivers) HE Naumann Leo Hinojosa Robert Walton Kray Skates Heath Stewart Marcus Kinsey John Heil Mike Oliver Don Banker Patti Klaus Burl Bell Eddie Fluker Kenneth Lott 2000 (15 drivers) Colt James Mark Chrudimsky John Potter Johnny Lewallen Blake Hanson Robert Tirpack Joe Shaffer Mark Coleman Jeremy Hernandez Ray Thompson Doug Pike Chad Cambron Dick Ellis Timmy Croft Mike McCoy 1999 (18 drivers) Ronnie Smith Bucky Butgeireit Rusty Mirth Doug Hooks Todd Parker Troy Tindell Travis Daugherty Mike Keessler Dan Jones Dwayne Hollingsworth Pete Devoto Joe Napoleon Jerry Huchison Ernest Hughes Terry James Michael Woychasin Richard Eggert Kleet Keelands 1998 (13 drivers) Bubba Wolf Dwayne Harrington Jake Wallace Jr. Bobby Caulfield Winn Kasper Chuck Grimes Greg Miller Eddie Milburn Steve Riggs Ron Sprayne David Sevilla Mickey McKim Tim Harvey It seems their has been a large turnover every year. Why this year we choose to blame one thing? Said my peace, Christy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 It seems their has been a large turnover every year. Why this year we choose to blame one thing? 1) Because this year there are only 7 or 8 Late Models running THR on any give night unlike in years past when there were about double that number. 2) Because this year 12 (by your own count) of the Late Model teams that left THR are running a series that has basically the same rules as the THR Late Models. Does this answer your question? Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchellracer Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Nick, I guess I didn't make it clear. 3 of the 12 RUN THR regularly. Also, the base of late models has decreased, so the car count has decreased. And with further research, the numbers show down in all the classes WHY???? Christy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchellracer Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Since you brought up the THR vs TSRS thing, here is a little more information for you. Of the 35 drivers we had registered at THR last year, 22 of them are now registered and running pretty regularly with TSRS. FYI of why I posted the previous stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 mitchellracer, The stats your present are very helpful as we attempt to separate fact from fiction. Both sides of this discussion have made very well thought-out points. I personally believe there are many reasons why the car counts are down at SAS and THR, several of which I listed earlier in this thread. The facts, thanks to you and others who have contributed to this thread, are becoming clearer. It is obvious that the THR Late Model car count is way down from previous years. It is equally obvious that several of the teams who ran at THR last season are running TSRS this season for whatever reason. I will not attempt to summarize all the valid arguments that people on both sides of this issue have presented here, but it is apparent that each side has its own perspective and both sides have expressed their opinions clearly and with due respect for the other side. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp17 Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 I've brought this up before but no one wants to address it. Comparing this year to years past is not apples to apples. Houston has a newly re-opened and very nice race track. It did not last year. A large portion of the LM class at Thunderhill in years past was comprised of teams from Houston that drove to Kyle on a semi-regular basis. I am very confident that were it not for TSRS most if not all those teams would not be returning to Kyle at all, but rather would be racing "at home." No offense intended to anyone at THR but a large percentage of the drivers that people are claiming TSRS "stole" wouldn't be at the THR weekly show in 2003 with or without TSRS. JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 JP, Aha! So it was Houston Motor Speedway that stole all those Thunder Hill Raceway LM's !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just kidding... I was at HMS on June 21st and they were running their LM class. There were just a very few there and I didn't recognize any names as former THR racers. In fact, most of them seemed to be the owner's family members! I know what you're saying, though. IF TSRS hadn't been formed then you and Mike and Brad and probably others from Houston would be running at HMS instead of THR anyway since it would be your hometown track. A very valid point that hasn't been emphasized enough in this thread. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckman Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 HEY NICK ARE THE PRO SEDAN NUMBERS DOWN THIS YEAR ALSO? MAYBE TSRS STOLE SOME OF THOSE DRIVERS ALSO. JUST RIBBING YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racegurl22 Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Hey I know right maybe TSRS did steal some of those Pro Sedans to, maybe thats why all the series are all low. Ha Ha. Ya right. Those drivers chose to run with TSRS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 ChuckMan, Actually we hear of several Pro Sedans cars being built and/ or recycled. Stephen Edmondson should be showing up at a race soon with his refurbished Toyota Corolla and I hear noise about the return of the Chevette. Tony Johnson has the former Leroy Farmer Mustang back race-ready. Jack Dishman should have his Mustang back in running order soon. Lanny Young is putting an air-cooled bug together with the engine being built by John Lamb. There are others that have contacted for rules and to ask questons. By the way, there is a VERY nice Datsun (former championship car) for sale that would make someone a front-running car right off the bat! Cheap! Like $1,500 for the car and a couple of engines, lots of spares etc. Check out the "4 Sale" section here at TSZ for contact info. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckLicata Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 By the way... I don't know if anyone has noticed, but the number of cars that qualify for each Winston Cup race this year has been WAY down! In fact, there have been about 3-4 races where there were only 43 cars that entered the race---meaning that EACH driver made the field, so there was NO pressure on anyone to "hit the trailer and hit the road" at the end of qualifying. Personally, I blame TSRS for this tragedy! p.s.--What's that smell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racegurl22 Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Chuck, You crack me up!!!! Possibly, it could of happened!!!! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Chuck.. Funny.. I don't smell anything... LOL And by the way, I DO NOT blame the TSRS for depleting the NASCAR Nextel Cup ranks. It's actually the Texas Pro Sedan Series that has been having such a dramatic impact on that poor, struggling series. Undoubtedly there must be at least a dozen Nextel teams thinking about moving up to the Texas Pro Sedans next season. Why, just two weeks ago when I was watching the Cup race from California I could clearly hear the hidden, coded messages whenever they interviewed a crew chief or driver. For instance, remember when they interviewed one of the crew chiefs he said his car was pushing real bad? Well, that's secret code for, "We're pushing real hard to get our TPS car ready for Thunder Hill." And recall when they interviewed Jeff Gordon about Robbie Gordon's pass under the yellow? He was pretty upset, right? Well, they cut out the part where Jeffy says he's fed up with the bad calls he's getting with NASCAR and plans on going Pro Sedan racing real soon. You really should call Fox Sports and have them send you the part they cut. Maybe you could use it on the MZone show this Saturday. Nick Holt (with tongue firmly in cheek) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckLicata Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Nick, Since you and TPS are obviously going to be beseiged with the defection of a number of Winston Cup///er, Nextel cup drivers next year, may I be so bold as to give you a wish-list of guys I DON'T want to see in your series next year?? 1) Jimmy Spencer 2) Robby Gordon 3) Casey Mears 4) Jimmy Spencer 5) Jack Sprague (nice guy but terrible driver) 6) See #1 7) Michael Jordan (has he FINALLY retired from the NBA?) 8) Bill Walton 9) Jimmy Spencer 10) See #1 and #2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 LOL.... Not to worry, Chuck. All those guys have sent me secret messages saying they are all going TSRS racing next year.. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckLicata Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Really, Nick?? Darn the luck!!!! What am I going to do?? Hmmm... Hey Nick...does TPS have an opening for a series announcer for next year?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Hey Chuck, I can understand Jack Sprague on the list. Maybe even Jeff Green or Steve Park who you do not have listed. What is the deal with Spencer, Mears, and R. Gordon being on it? Spencer never forgets. Enough said... lol Casey Mears...Give the guy a chance. Few years down the road he should be good. He's not doing much worse than that car performed last year. Robby Gordon - I hope it isn't because his controversal pass at Infineon. He's aggresive and he will speak his mind. Almost everyone here would have done the same thing. Before that didn't his teammate almost take him out on a pass? Also didn't his teammate wreck the other teammate and then that driver was kicked off the team for being PO'd? Maybe Harvick should be # 1 on the list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckLicata Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Mr. Jason, Yeh, I may have to add Harvick to the list... As I said on the show, I supported Robby Gordon's pass of Harvick at Infineon..RGordon asked about teh yellow flag 3 times in the driver's meeting--EVERYONE knew the rules! It's too bad his own teammate has to yap off about RGordon..Then again, Harvick would NEVER be considered a "team" player anyways--good thing he's locked into a long-term contract with RCR, otherwise he'd be a free agent this offseason! But other than that, I've never been a big fan of Robby Gordon's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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