PAPosse Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 Sad part is there aren't many people that will watch races if the championship is already won 3-4 races from the endBut Rodney isn't it odd that a non-chase format kept the Truck and Xfinity Series' in doubt til the final race?Check out the different points scenarios without the chase using the old system and new system without the elimination crap.....NONE would have been decided before the last race.....I rest my case, your honor....lol...http://www.jayski.com/news/pages/story/_/page/NASCAR-Sprint-Cup-Chase-History Don't worry Reb, Baby France is going to fix that for you: http://nascar.nbcsports.com/2015/11/20/brian-france-champions-chase-nascar-may-use-it-in-xfinity-truck-series/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 Rodney . people don't show up for races and not as many watch it as it is and has been for a few years now .once they got off the format from race one to the last race running for a championship not to mention trying to make all these cars equal and taking the innovative system the teams use to have .it went to pot .. add in the fact they shut down some of the best short tracks they had going for em, .... nascar was built and grew faster and larger than most sports based off of those other three I mentioned . just go back to what nascar was and it may take off again .but that is wishful thinking ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arob Posted November 24, 2015 Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 The best racing that was on TV was the old Thursday Night Thunder at Indianapolis Raceway Park. Don't think I ever missed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted November 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2015 Don't worry Reb, Baby France is going to fix that for you: http://nascar.nbcspo...y-truck-series/ Some people never learn......SMDH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer61 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 HiTech hit on something most people in corporate NASCAR refuse to acknowledge. Short track have the best shows. Short tracks such as Wilksboro and The Rock were eliminated from the schedule in favor of the cookie cutter tracks that could hold more fans which equated to more dollars. Family owned track such as Wilksboro also could not afford the sanction cost to bring in a big show. If, and I mean if, Bristol wasnt able to build more stands they would of been cut already. NASCAR currently wants to cut one race from martinsville in favor of a second date for one of the bigger tracks. In 98 or 99 Dale Jarrett won the michigan race in a caution free race. Lapped the whole field. Most boring race in history. Michigan never has packed stands. The year Kenseth won the championship he had it clinched 2 or 3 races before the finale. Fans didnt like that. Made the last few races boring. Its fortunate that the 3 series all had to go to homestead to determine the eventual winner, that is a perfect sitution but its not normal with this type of sport. NASCAR chose this basketball kind of playoff and while many people dont like it and whine and complain, NASCAR is STILL getting viewers, some in the stands but mostly from TV. In comparison, the only reason the WWE travels from location to location to have events is because most of those fans wont travel to an event. They cant sell that merchandise over that distance effectively. If it wasnt for that they would have all their events in a studio. Their major audience is on TV. Now I wont say that France has a brain because he doesnt, but I will tell you that Nascar has figured out how to make up for the fans they lose in the stands buy charging TV networks more money. Its apparent that the drama they create with "The Chase", debris cautions and other racer drama creates more views of their broadcast and more hits on the internet (yes they get paid for that). With all that in mind, NASCAR and Brian france have turned a sport of auto racing into a corporate fortune 500 company EXACTLY like WWE. Its nothing like it was 10-15 years ago and before and it will never be again. Racing has evolved into something other then the sport of men it used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted November 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 That's why I started adding the "$" in na$car Cory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 61 .you pointed out how nascar figured out how to make a 500 company will only last for so long .. and how nascar figured out charging networks more money to offset the loss in fans in the stands is counter productive and will be proven in a few short years to come .i am not the smartest rock on the hill here .but common sense plays a factor in the over all success of nascar ... here is my thought .....if nascar is charging the networks more to off set .then they are in trouble . the tracks as in mr smith and other owners are going to have to shut down sooner or later .they have to make money from the fans in the stands .no tracks no race .no sponsors .no fans and the show dies .a track has to have butts in the stands ...just look around at your local track that are closing down even though they may have great car counts and put on a show ...or when a track has to charge the teams enough to pay the purse and other bills that track wont last either ..i am just an old long time over 54 years racing fan here that does not know much . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodneyRodriguez Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 It has indeed changed a bunch and seems like just a show.. But I won't lie to you all if they called and asked me to call some races I'd play along!! Lol #sellout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted November 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer61 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumper Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Well it seems most of you have figured it out after all. Except for a few of us that make a living in racing like builders, suppliers and promoters racing is not about racing. It's about creating and selling a SHOW. Failure to do that equals failure as demonstrated by the loss of so many tracks. We at the local level are STILL trying to sell what we sold 50 years ago but without the element of serious disagreements.( physical). We scorn on track clashes involving the cars and the fighting that followed. To do that in hockey you would have ice golf. My point is oval track racing is not about making the best race or teams, its about making the best sellable show. NASCAR and WWE have very successfully done exactly that. Just look at the MONEY involved. Guess what......... most of the WWE fans know the fighting is not real but appreciate how well the wrestlers preform. Its not easy and its dangerous. Some even watch just to try and catch when they get injured for real just like some watch racing for the crashes. All the talk about the "good old days" of racing forgets the violence that was the biggest part of those days.Think about it........the crowd goes wild every time a fight breaks out or a driver runs into another driver as witnessed by Matt Kenseth wrecking Joey. Did you hear the audience?Even the first fully televised NASCAR race is always highlighted by the big fight afterwards. I am not advocating going back to those Neanderthal days of tire iron pits.What I am saying is ENJOY the NASCAR racing it is today for what it is or don't watch. Same for WWE.Lots of us are going to watch even if your local hot shoe might be a better driver than some of the NASCAR drivers. To keep throwing rocks is sour grapes, period! Which brings me to another point. What CAN local shows do to put butts in the seats today? Make the show more interesting! Its simple.......is it not? NO it is not!!! Many promising promoter have tried but failed even with the best intentions. They tried to sell the 50 year old show without the main ingredient .Ice golf. What I have seen at many local tracks plus up north is the more people involved with the actual racing the more people are in the pits AND in the stands.But down here we have the majority of interested parties not being able to afford or have time for one of out top tier racers. Plus a lot are not interested to watch those with the resources flaunt their success with very shinny loud fast cars. The success drag racing enjoys is largely because anybody can be a racer, thus part of the show. If I was a promoter today I would put a huge effort into promoting my most affordable race cars.......ie........Pure Stocks and Compacts, even eco mods. I know for EVERY car there will be family members and fans coming with them. I know they pay the same for pit passes and general admission as the most expensive cars. So I would put a purse for each to rival the expensive cars knowing they would reap a greater reward financially for me. My goal would be 50 cars in each. The top tier cars don't need the money a current purse affords but would do amazing for the average joe and his backyard car. I know many of you say its the top tier cars that bring in the fans but YOUR WRONG. Its connection to the drivers that bring fans just like NASCAR makes sure every NASCAR driver is well known by the audience. You don't root for the car, you root for the DRIVER. Same for every car at every track. SO GET MORE DRIVERS!!!! Now that's simple! The first promoter that treats an affordable series like a top tier series and affords a low budget team a chance to actually profit will themselves profit and everybody wins. JMO, sorry for the rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arob Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 If Sport Compact is going to grow down here it has to have a set of rules.This run what ya brung isn't working.You have maybe 3 good running cars and thats it.The racing is predictable and boring.It has been that way for years.Can it be a big class? Why not.A good set of rules like say Cotton Bowl would be a good place to start.South Texas Speedway has stuck up for Sport Compacts for years now and have not been repayed yet.To be honest I was surprised they brought the SC's and LLM's back this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumper Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 arob if your ready to sponsor this series the door is wide open. The original frontrunner rules brought 0 cars, the first set of compact rules brought a small amount and the last set of adjusted rules brought about a dozen. Eliminating any of todays cars might not be productive unless you can bring in an attractive purse to complement your rules. A series sponsor would be the best thing.Otherwise it might be more productive to bring in any cars and see what the racers really want. Right now we are between a Compact class and a mini stock class.If you prefer to watch compacts at Cottonbowl that's where you should watch. Otherwise let the racers work out our future. Thanks for your interest.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top_shelf_12 Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Technically he does sponsor the class. He's a fan that doesn't miss too many races at STS. As a fan, it's not too entertaining to watch 6 cars especially when you know who's going to win. I agree with both of your points, think a clear set of rules will unify the class and racers will want to race for a set purse. We were just impressed by the CBS Compacts when we were there. Two leaders passing each other every lap, large amount of supporters in the stands and only about 10 total cars but one of the best races. The point is, Compacts have 10-15 cars at every track we know they rub except STS, even TPS gets 10-15 each event. What's the common factor? Rules and purse. Compacts showed well at Getcha$one but no promoter can afford a $1000-1500 purse every week. The "shiny expensive" cars don't even get that. Trust me if he had the money, he'd offer it to the racers but I'll bet it wouldn't be on the Compacts. I doubt we would go 3 hours to see Sport Compacts either. It's no disrespect to any of the Compact drivers, just not a class that's his interest. Now 19 racing for the $1000 or whatever STP is paying, that could be interesting, 6 racing for a pit pass with one dominant car, not so much and it's not your fault, that's the goal and you do it clean and what I understand will help any that ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumper Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Well this thread is about NASCAR so this discussion should move to the STS page. But just like NASCAR, if you don't like what you see, don't watch. If you don't have a dog in the hunt, put the gun away.Your not helping! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Well, thumper, this thread has taken a turn away from the original NASCAR discussion, but I believe you may have been the one that turned it that way. But it's all related and open for debate. And I'm trying to imagine what NA$CAR would look like if they adopted your plan for success. Those ancient, dinosaur tanks they now race in the top three NA$CAR series could be replaced with 35-year old Rabbits, thrilling Plymouth Neons, souped-up Saturns and maybe even an awesome Ford Ranger truck class. The fans would turn out in droves. OK, I jest. But what I do not jest about is that arob - and anyone else who has no "dog in the hunt" - is entirely welcome to post their thoughts (as long as they meet LSSZ guidelines) here, with our without a gun or a dog. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumper Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 lol Nick, you just described the World Ralley series that Sebastian Loob runs. Since everybody misunderstands my point, heres another. I don't care what anybody writes as everyone has an opinion. I just get tired of people throwing rocks at my division while offering nothing to help the series. Now got to the STS page to continue. Your opinion on NASCAR is well known but not everyone agrees. Some of LIKE the show they present as is. Why try to demoralize it? It certainty does not help racing in general including non racing readers. We are supposed to support ALL kinds of racing to benefit the autosports division of sports. I do. Like a fat man who never saw a meal he did not enjoy, I never saw a race I did not enjoy. cant help it if the hair on my neck stands up when I hear negative comments hatefully aimed at the sport I love. The ONLY sport I love. And I sure don't degrade anyone involved, racers, tracks or fans. Everybody is doing a GREAT job and nothing needs to change. Sorry rebelracewriter for stepping on your thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Poor reb always being step on ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted November 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Sorry if you took it that I don't understand your point, thumper, I think I do and even agree with it to a point. And, yes, my admiration for NASCAR both as a racing series and business venture, has been on a downhill slide for many years and for many different, yet equally valid, reasons. I suppose the downhill slide started when I was the motorsports writer for the San Antonio Light back in the day.... That would be ancient history, actually, from the late 1980s through 1993 when the Light merged with the Express-News. Seems NASCAR didn't like an editorial I penned about the high speeds seen on pit road during NASCAR events. I suggested that they institute some sort of speed limit on pit road before someone got killed. Of course, a bit later on NASCAR did exactly that. But NASCAR's reaction to my editorial? A nasty letter to my editor demanding that I be fired immediately and informing him that any NASCAR press credentials requested by The San Antonio Light in the future would not he approved unless I were fired. The editor did not fire me since Sports Illustrated had also published some sort of information that NASCAR did not like and informed that magazine that they were not welcome at any more NASCAR events. The editor thought it pretty cool that both Sports Illustrated and the San Antonio Light were banned at the same time! LOL As history shows, NASCAR backed down on the Sports Illustrated ban once they went public with NASCAR's attempt to control their editorial content. I am going to look around to see if I can find that infamous editorial. If I find it I"ll scan it and post it here. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 LOL at Reb... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted November 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 No offense taken GB... BUT, to your point, from a journalistic stand point it's very difficult to make an exciting story out of features with less than 10 cars whether it be Mini Stocks, or any other class......When Yankee Payne opened Hill Country Raceway I took flak from several local racers and Yankee, that I never gave the track a lot of press.....That's true but only because all the classes had such small car counts and dominant leaders that I could never get more than a paragraph out of any class......Sadly that doesn't make for good reading.... As for bashing na$car, they continue to shoot themselves in the feet(both of them) over and over.....They're like a bad Joe Biden speech, they self implode.....I hate what Baby Brian is doing to sport I grew up loving for the tracks, the non-PC drivers/personalities and the true STOCK cars.....I'm not attacking racing per se, but the direction that na$car is headed to bring in the w(h)ine and cheese crowds.....Those fair weather fans didn't put na$car in the spotlight like us good ol' redneck types did.....I feel like the sport has been stolen from me, and ya I'm one pissed off mofo about it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted November 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Back to original post......I can't say I disagree with any of this article http://beyondtheflag.com/2015/11/25/nascar-kyle-buschs-championship-hurts-sport/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top_shelf_12 Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 My apologies for my part in changing the subject and GB, you're right, don't like it don't watch it and that's exactly what I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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