Purplehaze93 Posted September 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Right, we do it cuz we love to race! We do, but to get more cars in you are gonna have to pay. Otherwise you are gonna get what we been having ..6-8 cars. Either pay more money .. Or get the cost of the car down where more people can afford .. I know how, but a lot of people don't wanna hear it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top_shelf_12 Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 That's true about the purse but we're also talking about car counts, purses, crowd counts. Car counts and why or why not on tracks paying purses. No one will make money doing this but no one wants to lose $100 or few hundred dollars every night either. You're a LLM owner how much does it cost you to get in the gate (fuel, pit pass, car prep)? I guarantee you'll spend more than I will as a Pure Stock owner. My initial cost maybe $50-100 and could win $150-250 a night arguably? The chances of me making a little are higher than spending $150-300 just to get in and not getting my investment back. Of course money isn't the motivation behind racing but if I have a bad night, I'm out $50 vs $200-300 and if I have a few bad nights... I only mentioned LLM because I don't want to lose them at STS either. Even as a Pure Stock driver, is it fair I make more than you would winning when my costs are maybe half as much as yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top_shelf_12 Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I will say I've noticed a few more local LLMs coming out so that's a good sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
23571race Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 TEXAS LOTTERY SOUNDS BETTER! STILL TAKE A LOSS AND MAYBE A WIN TO GET HALF OF WHAT U SPEND BACK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top_shelf_12 Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 If that's where your fun is, do it and you're helping Texas Education since I'm sure anyone can notice, is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cblgdc Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Spirit of competition, no matter what your hobby or sport there is a cost to do it ! and the return is usually low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purplehaze93 Posted September 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Cut cost on the engine.. Is the only way in weekly racing... And to have it sanctioned by someone like Nesmith .. They also have a pretty healthy points fund. One motor (in this case two 602& 604), one tire, one weight/ spoiler height. Jmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top_shelf_12 Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I agree with you guys and in no way was I knocking the LLMs or LMs or any track, just pointing out that it will be difficult to sustain a class with 6-8 cars, no matter what class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hray Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 I thought your idea was going to be crate motors. It doesn't work. We've raced asphalt crate lates in Texas. First of all they are not lower cost than a built motor. Second they don't last any longer than a built motor if you build the built motor to turn 6300 rpm. Third, if you require a sealed crate the cost to freshen is actually higher than a built motor and you have to use a certified rebuilder and not your favorite machine shop. Forth, a crate is no longer a crate if you rebuild it with other than OEM parts or even if you over bore it. My personal opinion is crates caused the demise of the LM series in Texas. The only place they are raced is CTS and the car counts are poor. On the other hand, we raced LM's in PA where they allowed crates and built motors and the class is booming. And don't say that's because it's PA. ProMods are a perfect example in TX. You can run any motor and the class is booming. There are formulas for weight, weight placement, etc that can make dirt LM's competitive no mater what motor you want to run. You guys just haven't been willing to make the rule changes (I guess for fear of running off cars), but you've already run off most anyway and if you adopt crates only, you'll do the same thing. It's time you guys got everyone that has ever raced a LM at SOS and find out what the reasons are they aren't racing, then the adults need to take over and make the changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purplehaze93 Posted September 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Everyone has there own opinion . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purplehaze93 Posted September 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Simply trying to help the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hray Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Purplehaze, I don't doubt that your intentions are good, but the facts are the facts. Crate motors do not cut the cost of racing. The only opinions I stated above are that crates killed the LM class in TX and that your class does not seem to want to handicap certain cars. Now, I will give crates one kudo - they put everyone on the same motor, but so does a spec motor or even strict motor specs like TAMS or TSRS used to have. But, if your objective is to cut cost, none of those cut cost. Why not look at weight per cubic inch formulas with added weight in front of the firewall for alum heads and blocks. It won't take long for the alum 410 motored guys to figure out they are spending way too much to just be even with a steel motor 360 guy, but he can still run the alum 410 if he wants. You might want to look at the LLM rules. They're not perfect, but they work pretty good and no motor type dominates (but of course we don't have the big cubic inch alum motors to deal with). I'll make one more comment. Good driving and skill in chassis and engine tuning will trump equipment/money most of the time. If it doesn't, you've allowed your rules to give the advantage to the money. In my opinion, that's why TALMS has better car counts than ProMods. And one more thing. I have 3 LLM's in my shop that I maintain, but I also have a LM and SUPR spec motor. We raced one of the LLM's in your class 2 yrs ago at SOS. We were 300lbs heavier than your heaviest cars, were on 10" tires and had a 360 cid steel motor. 14 cars ran that nite and we finished 7th on the lead lap. It was fun kicking 7 of your butts - just sayin'. And btw, the LM is for sale. We have way more fun in the LLM's. I hope your class survives, but as I stated above, the adults need to take charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purplehaze93 Posted September 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 I liked the rules we have, but the open motor tends to scare people off. I run pretty much a spec style motor. 355 , Alm heads, roller cam,and a Good carb. I been finishing up front most nights.. Finishing ahead of some of the bigger motors. I work on set up and driving and how to get better. Instead of trying to beat someone with more cubic inches. Crate motor is an option, and wouldn't be that far off if the track stayed slick.. But if track is heavy, forget it. Look at Southern Texas Late Model Rules..options for crate, SUPR spec, wet sump modified , and open. Weight break and spoiler height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purplehaze93 Posted September 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Oh by the way.. Talking about doing away with all aluminum motor;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top_shelf_12 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 I would get lost with motor specs and technical aspects of equipment, the only reason I mentioned Nesmith rules was to see if Houston guys that run on it would come down to help the car counts. Seems like they average about 12-14 so not a huge class but a sustainable. Whatever is going on right now doesn't seem to be working since there's usually only about 8 every night right now. So, obviously something needs to be done to get some more cars out there, what it is is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purplehaze93 Posted September 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 They will NOT show unless you pay ! A couple came down , but that was it. Everyone wants purse guaranteed . That I'll pay when I see the cars is BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top_shelf_12 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 If you commit to paying a huge purse and only 8 show up too...bad for business so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purplehaze93 Posted September 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 So is not paying what you say you are going to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top_shelf_12 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Agreed. So the compromise...if xx amount of cars show up it's $1000 to win, if you don't get xx amount of cars...problem with that, if you don't reach the goal, those that did show up kinda get screwed. From a track's perspective, it's difficult to justify large payout for low car count. Hopefully you can get your answer on pay out then make sure everyone shows up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cblgdc Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 If even 75% of the cars would show up, this would take care of the problem. So get that car out and race it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top_shelf_12 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 I agree cblgdc. It has to be frustrating when you know there's cars around but just sitting. Of course fans have to do their part and fill the stands otherwise none of the classes can survive despite car counts. We'll be at both of the remaining SOS dates this year and will try to bring a friend or two with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purplehaze93 Posted September 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Yup! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Torn up equipment is a topic that seems to be missing... I know i have plenty of motor to run with the LM..and the argument about the clips has been beaten up to no end..however..I do believe if the tube cars had 1 motor rule like we do....more cars would be built.. even if its a 3 link llm with a tube clip....we got tore up bad and havent made it back because of that...so besides engine rules we also have to worry about torn up equipment.......I agree with rusty that our engine rules seem to be the easiest tho they need clarifying on a few things... jmo......oh and yes..i am getting a LM and no i am not going to build a big motor...gonna build the exact same one i have now... maybe itll help others to follow suit.........cant wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top_shelf_12 Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 Good luck with it Drew. Tore up equipment is a risk for any class but class rules don't exactly year up cars generally speaking, but keeping in mind the cost to replace stuff should be kept in mind in the long run development of the class. Right now, I just want to see a full field for Havoc then wish the guys luck getting together and creating rules for the overall development. Not my fight for that, I'm just a race fan for LLM/LM and hope more than 6-8 cars race on a nightly basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purplehaze93 Posted September 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 So.. Anyways,as soon as I find out what they are gonna pay, the better. I'm trying to see what I can gather up on my end for the Havoc;) BTW if anyone would like to donate for the Havoc, let Kody or myself know. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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