Head & neck requirements

[abrungot]

Nick (And others) will be Pissed at me if this turns into Bashing...

But after talking with other racers.. really have to Ask...

 

I just bought a new Han's (Sport II Series) and basiclly it was $700 Bucks...

I have been using someone else's Han's on loan and needed to return it..

 

How many people are not racing because they can't afford the Manditory Head & Neck ontop of Reguar Racing Costs?

 

Please Constructive!

[REBELRACER]

im sure the lower car count is because of that rule. but on one hand u have drivers who will spend $700 on the latest tricked out carb, but piss and moan about spending that much on safety. gotta love it

[termite#99]

Hit the nail on the head Danny!

[fastmontgomery15]

LOOK I KNOW THE COST IS HIGH BUT WHEN YOU SEE YOUR KID HIT A CONCRETE WALL HEAD ON DOING WHO KNOWS MAYBE 85 OR SO WHEN HIS THROTTLE HANGS THE COST SHOULDNT MATTER!! WE HAVE ROLLED A MINI SPRINT A FEW TIMES AND WE HAVE HIT A WALL HEAD ON AND WILL PAY WHAT IT TAKES TO KEEP HIM SAFE THATS JUST WHAT YOU DO WHEN YOU RACE.BY THE WAY HUNTER HAS USED THE HANS AND HE HAS USED THE D-CELL HE LIKES THE D- CELL BETTER AND THATS WHAT HE WORE WHEN HE HIT THE WALL AND FLIPED HIS MINI SPRINT!. AND THE D-CELL WAS CHEAPER THEN THE HANS. WE JUST SOLD IT HANS.PAY FOR SAFTEY YOU WILL BE A HAPPIER PERSON WHEN THAT SCAREY TIME COMES AND IT SAVED YOUR LIFE!!!!!

[gdr21]

It's money well spent. I'm a lot older and don't take a beating like I use to, but I walked away from last weekend just mad at getting my truck tore up. NOT HURT! Gary

[dancer52]

yea...but, what about how much harder it is to get out of the car with all this stuff...any of you guys try to get out of a full containment seat with a defender still on? now try doing that upside down. I personally think my safety should be my decision....some people drive worse with all that stuff on because there uncomefortable..... I HATE neckbraces or anything like them.....I do wear them....but...I have my doubts that most of this stuff would even help me.... I persoanlly think a really good seat is much more important...but there almost always overlooked. In the end, my safety is my problem....should be my decision....now stuff that effects everyone...like bolting on lead improperly or fuel cells....those are good rules to make. jmo

[LIMITED147]

anyyyybody that would hit the wall like i did in baytown ,take a ride in a ambulance to HOUSTON "! STAY THERE FOR HOURS " get out at 5 in the mornin go home and not b able to move your neck for a couple days would maybe think about getting somethin '' but until then ,nobody will even worrie about it !!!! i SAVED and got a hans , i think it could b alittle more comfortable but oh well i aint worried about anything anymore ' and it is peoples own choices BUT i would tell ANYBODY, there better than a $20,000 dollar hospitable bill !! WHAT U GONNA RACE THEN ?????????? good luck to all and think about it

[sprintsrule]

anyyyybody that would hit the wall like i did in baytown ,take a ride in a ambulance to HOUSTON "! STAY THERE FOR HOURS " get out at 5 in the mornin go home and not b able to move your neck for a couple days would maybe think about getting somethin '' but until then ,nobody will even worrie about it !!!! i SAVED and got a hans , i think it could b alittle more comfortable but oh well i aint worried about anything anymore ' and it is peoples own choices BUT i would tell ANYBODY, there better than a $20,000 dollar hospitable bill !! WHAT U GONNA RACE THEN ?????????? good luck to all and think about it

 

I have actually been there and done that. Same race track and all. I still would prefer no neck restraint because that still sounds like a better scenario to me than a trip to a burn unit caused by me not being able to get out of my car. I am in no way trying to persuade people to not use a neck restraint. I just believe it should be left up to the individual because there is a down side to them.

[fast18]

In the 20 years I have raced I have only had one really bad wreck. Strange thing is almost everything on me hurt except my neck. The expense doesn't bother me much but I don't like the discomfort of wearing the Hutchens type device (I have a Simpson). I do know if I need to get out of my car fast it will take longer. My opinion is it should be left up to the driver. I haven't checked with the owner of the track so I don't know if being Nascar sanctioned is the reason or lower insurance rates come into play...maybe both. I guess if we want to race bad enough we have to play by the rules or sit in the bleachers.

[DonJuan]

I normally race my sportmod on dirt, but thought that I would like to try asphalt some time. The cost of a head and neck restraint is one of the reasons I have not yet. The dirt tracks only require a neck collar. I have hit the wall, been hit head on by another car after spinning, and T-boned another car, all hard hits, and the neck collar did the job. I can see requiring them if your running at speeds over 100 MPH, but most classes at Thunderhill do not.

[racer61]

I have a Hutchins. It works!!!!! Hit the wall at Corpus in a super latemodel damn near head on. Still was a little sore but lived to fight another day. Now, mine wasnt 700 bucks. 300 in 2005. Also I had a good seat as AJ talked about earlier. Im dont have a problem with requiring a head and neck device, but requiring it to be the most expensive models out there should be wrong. Full containment seats arent required. Hell, common sense isnt required to get into a car.

[Alloutpc17]

Im sure a lot of us has hit the wall before. You have got to remember the restraints were made for the cup guys going 160-200 mph. Anyone remember in 2005 or 2006 Clint Montanio hitting the wall at SAS head between turns 1 and 2 and his throttle stuck. Now THAT WAS A HARD HIT!!!!! I don't remember him having a neck restraint and walked away from it.

[NickHolt]

Im sure a lot of us has hit the wall before. You have got to remember the restraints were made for the cup guys going 160-200 mph. Anyone remember in 2005 or 2006 Clint Montanio hitting the wall at SAS head between turns 1 and 2 and his throttle stuck. Now THAT WAS A HARD HIT!!!!! I don't remember him having a neck restraint and walked away from it.

And does anyone remember Ricci Ware, Jr. hitting the wall almost head on in his open-wheeled modified at San Antonio Speedway at the exit to turn four? Broke his neck. He was airlifted to hospital in critical condition and spent many months in re-hab.

 

That was before the days of today's neck restraints. I bet if Ricci were racing today he'd have an approved neck restraint system in place no matter how much it cost.

 

Nick

[sprintsrule]

Im sure a lot of us has hit the wall before. You have got to remember the restraints were made for the cup guys going 160-200 mph. Anyone remember in 2005 or 2006 Clint Montanio hitting the wall at SAS head between turns 1 and 2 and his throttle stuck. Now THAT WAS A HARD HIT!!!!! I don't remember him having a neck restraint and walked away from it.

And does anyone remember Ricci Ware, Jr. hitting the wall almost head on in his open-wheeled modified at San Antonio Speedway at the exit to turn four? Broke his neck. He was airlifted to hospital in critical condition and spent many months in re-hab.

 

That was before the days of today's neck restraints. I bet if Ricci were racing today he'd have an approved neck restraint system in place no matter how much it cost.

 

Nick

 

Anybody remember any drivers at SAS trying to get out of cars on fire? I can remember some who spent some time in a burn unit. I would hate to see how much longer it would have taken with today's seats and neck restraints. The only way to stop anybody from ever getting hurt is to just quit racing. That is obviously not a choice because there are too many with the addiction. There is a danger factor to racing but there is also a danger factor to driving to work or eating lunch. My only argument is the track should let the drivers pick their own poison. Neck restraints help in some accidents but also are a negative in other accidents. The track should stay out of that decision.

[JamesHigdon]

Speaking for one of the guys we sponsor he spent more on tires, wheels, a carb. and the like to be legal for THR then he did for the neck restraint. I'm not sure how many guys aren't running THR because of the cost of a head and neck restraint but I can imagine some aren't running because they don't like them...that said what’s the rub?

 

It’s hot in South Texas and heat stroke is a very real concern. Roughly 250 die a year from heat stroke each year in America and roughly 25 die from motor racing worldwide each year. Would someone be considered unreasonable for showing up a track to race in a cotton shirt and jean shorts because it’s hot? I once witnessed a guy take test laps in a car without a helmet on because it was hot…hell people STILL die in car crashes because they think they’ll get trapped by their seatbelts so they don’t wear them!

 

Looking at it another way the FSAE sanctioning body required all drivers to be able to get out of their car in less than 5 seconds wearing full equipment with a neck restraint. When we started practicing getting out of our first car it took in the neighborhood of 10 seconds; we moved things around, changed belt locations, bought better equipment and made it possible to be both feet on the ground in 4.5 seconds. I see cars all the time I know the driver couldn’t get out of in a hurry, some simple changes would make it so much quicker but no one requires it so some don’t do it. If a track required all drivers to be able to get out of their cars fully equipped in 15 seconds do you think they’d lose drivers? If the same track changed the next year and required drivers to be able to exit their cars in 15 seconds with a head and neck restraint would things then change so guys could get out of cars quicker? Death from burning alive isn’t any more deadly then death from basilar skull fracture.

[thumper]

I believe the original question was how many racers quit because of the cost to buy a neck restraint.My opinion is many,especially in the entry level classes.Look at the total package,neck restraint,$700,transponder $400,radio,$125.Thats $1225 before the cost of the car and tow vehicle.In the case of ministockers and some V8 entry classes the purse does not cover the nites cost to race.So with the car,truck,trailer,safty devices,transponders and radios you have an investment of 3-5K for a hobby that costs you to enjoy a couple of times a month for part of a year.

 

Safty is an ongoing concers but can easily be overdone.Where is the inexpensive class to run for the average family man or woman?I sincerely believe the entry level classes should not be required to buy neck restraints or even the overpriced transponders.Fact is they are not that fast.At CC Speedway the Thunder cars barely made it to 50 mph.Even a head on was not such an impact,I know personally.With todays Front Runners the speed is even lower so why price them out?Unless the tracks start paying real purses,this cost thing will always hurt car count.And a transponder is a simple magnetic sensor that could be made for $30 but the makers of these devices charge $400 unless you get a group deal at $300.

 

If a track wants to require expensive safty or convenience devices and still not pay serious purse they should not ask "WHERES ALL THE CARS?"The answer is simple.The guys with money can buy these things but race much faster cars.But theres more of us poor guys that cant so find a way for us to race too.If I had to buy $1225 worth of devices not related to the actual race car I would quit too.Fortunately my track,STS does not require all this stuff.So I can still race cheap,like me.

 

The next thing that will happen with the neck restraint deal is requiring an onboard fire suppression system to keep restraint drivers safe from a firiey crash due to the difficulty of egress.How much is that system?Lets leave all that hi teck stuff to the super classes that can affort it.A model T does not need air bags.

[DonJuan]

I believe the original question was how many racers quit because of the cost to buy a neck restraint.My opinion is many,especially in the entry level classes.Look at the total package,neck restraint,$700,transponder $400,radio,$125.Thats $1225 before the cost of the car and tow vehicle.In the case of ministockers and some V8 entry classes the purse does not cover the nites cost to race.So with the car,truck,trailer,safty devices,transponders and radios you have an investment of 3-5K for a hobby that costs you to enjoy a couple of times a month for part of a year.

 

Safty is an ongoing concers but can easily be overdone.Where is the inexpensive class to run for the average family man or woman?I sincerely believe the entry level classes should not be required to buy neck restraints or even the overpriced transponders.Fact is they are not that fast.At CC Speedway the Thunder cars barely made it to 50 mph.Even a head on was not such an impact,I know personally.With todays Front Runners the speed is even lower so why price them out?Unless the tracks start paying real purses,this cost thing will always hurt car count.And a transponder is a simple magnetic sensor that could be made for $30 but the makers of these devices charge $400 unless you get a group deal at $300.

 

If a track wants to require expensive safty or convenience devices and still not pay serious purse they should not ask "WHERES ALL THE CARS?"The answer is simple.The guys with money can buy these things but race much faster cars.But theres more of us poor guys that cant so find a way for us to race too.If I had to buy $1225 worth of devices not related to the actual race car I would quit too.Fortunately my track,STS does not require all this stuff.So I can still race cheap,like me.

 

The next thing that will happen with the neck restraint deal is requiring an onboard fire suppression system to keep restraint drivers safe from a firiey crash due to the difficulty of egress.How much is that system?Lets leave all that hi teck stuff to the super classes that can affort it.A model T does not need air bags.

 

Well said!

[HiTech]

i dont eat at my favorite chicken place anymore .they priced me out .....racing is getting that way .

[sam71]

If you love them you will buy it I was glad my son had it on on last Dec at STS rolled five times said he could feel all the safety equipment keeping him in a stable position in the seat even was able to to keep his hand on the fire release cable scare the hell out of me I'll would pay double it to keep him safe had to sit a little longer between races but god willing we have many more years to race

[UMSCHEIDRaceServices]

Call it bashing or me being an asshole but if this forum had a like button like Facebook does I'd probably have alot of likes! But I haven't heard such stupid reasoning for not wearing good and proper safety equipment in my life. Everyone in on this forum and that drives a Racecar is either a mother, father, son or daughter. Even grand parent or grand child. And I still hear people try to reason with not wearing good safety equipment for your self. If you don't wanna do it for your self think about your family or the ones you might leave behind because the device you didn't want to wear was a Lil bit uncomfortable to you and the gloves you didn't put on kept you from un buckling your set belt cause the fire was to hot to grab your metal latch on your seatbelts. Honestly is you say you can't get out of the car fast enough with said device on then you probably couldn't get out fast without it either. Let's be real here guess and stop pointing the finger at a device for you not being able to get your ass and belly thru the window opening of your Racecar. I'll stop now before I hurt to many feelings.

 

I was young at the time and correct me if I am wrong but the driver that got burned at sas back in the day wasn't wearing gloves and couldnt get out because of that reason. He couldn't grab his latch to free himself.

 

And if the Hans device your wearing is the proper size and worn correctly you hardly feel it after the flag man gives one to go until green.

 

Next crew chiefs have someone get hurt or better yet killed in a Racecar you prepared and then tell the forum you still feel the same about these comments people are making.

 

There really isn't an argument for good safety, ask your self do you want to put your loved ones thru the pain because you were lazy or a Lil uncomfortable? You do love them right?

 

As I've offered in the past, I will sell any safety device - head and neck, helmets, suit, gloves, and shoes at my cost to help keep someone in "My racing family" safer. But since I said that 2 yrs ago I didn't get one single phone call. That's just sad.

 

Someone said that it should be based on speed, to that I say study up on it before you suggest this. Research what you head would weigh if you were driving at 40mph and hit a wall head on and came to a sudden stop. How much does your head weigh as it goes forward away from your body?

[NickHolt]

That's the raw truth, JC. That no one took you up on your "at cost" deal is indeed sad.

 

Nick

[Colt15]

I think JC post sums it up. I know the struggles to get to the racetrack but if you cant afford to put a good seat and have the proper safety equipment you probally need to consider a diffrent hobby. think about your family, your kids are they not worth the money it cost to be safe? I have worn a HANS since 2006 like anything it just takes time to get used too. I have raced once since then without it and you get so used to it it actually was uncomfortable to me not having it on.

[UMSCHEIDRaceServices]

Sorry for rambling nick!!! But it bothers me that people are lazy or just don't care and make excuses and actually are dumb enough to believe the BS excuses an reasoning that they fabricate about how it doesn't or won't help. I also had been up for 24 hrs when I wrote that. Just got home from the dirt track and working all day. So I was a Lil worn out when I read this topic. Hope everyone has a great day at your Home tracks tonight or where ever you chose to race!

[RBSF]

Well well..... Doubt I would have gotten away with that posting, but I sure am glad YOU did!

Full containment seats DO close off the opening. Got it. So make the opening bigger.

Head restraints are uncomfortable. Got it. Sitting in staging at 110 degrees is also.

Fire systems are expensive. Got that too. Um, hold on, $300? Hmm.. Yep, too expensive.

Being able to love on that kid/grandkid?

Fire IS a huge concern, how's the track staffed with equipment and trained personnel? Anyone go by and visit with them, see what's what?

[fast18]

I can't speak for other tracks but the Kyle Fire Dept. does a great job @ THR...they have been quick to put my fires out