gdr21 Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 HMP has made a great improvement in the safety at the track when they hired big John on their rescue and fire team. I know of his training and experience, plus he brought some equipment with him that HMP didn't have. Don't let the 'country boy look' fool you, he knows what to do. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGTxDEUCE Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 i have a dog in this race so heres my opinion. i have personally stopped racing for the cost of the hans device. i know people want to be safe and i understand the scare of getting hurt. in the same light i feel that the foam donut would do the same in a mini stock. i know people will be sayin things like how much racers spend on their cars and so on, but where i stand i have spent 1500 on the car and its race ready, while i just cant justify spending half that on one piece of equitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGTxDEUCE Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 Well well..... Doubt I would have gotten away with that posting, but I sure am glad YOU did! Full containment seats DO close off the opening. Got it. So make the opening bigger. Head restraints are uncomfortable. Got it. Sitting in staging at 110 degrees is also. Fire systems are expensive. Got that too. Um, hold on, $300? Hmm.. Yep, too expensive. Being able to love on that kid/grandkid? Fire IS a huge concern, how's the track staffed with equipment and trained personnel? Anyone go by and visit with them, see what's what? coming from working on the THR safety crew i can say that safety crew is top notch. not even having to go into having the kyle fire department, we had an army medic, volenteer fireman, redcross certified, and over 50 years of combined racing experiance. so before you question a safety crew watch them operateon a night and try to find safety mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprintsrule Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 JC, Since I am one that would prefer not wearing the neck restraint I will assume your comments are directed to me and others like me so I will respond to some of your comments. My belly and ass fit through the window opening just fine so that is not my concern. They are both actually smaller than yours. Thanks for your concern though. I can get out of any car I drive in less than five seconds. I have turned down rides before because I was not familiar with the car and its safety features. I am very safety conscious. Here is what it boils down to for me and it has nothing to do with finances. If a neck restraint adds one second to the amount of time it takes me to get out of a car, I do not want to wear it. If a full containment seat adds one second to the amount of time it takes me to get out of a car, I do not want to have one. Turn the car upside down and add a fire and how much extra time do you think it will take now? I went to a sprint car race a couple weeks ago and a sprint car took any easy roll on its side. The car stopped about 50 feet from me so I had an excellent view. The driver had a neck restraint and a full containment seat and could not get out of the car. It was a non-wing car so it was open all around but he could not twist and turn to get out with the car on its side. They had to turn the car back on its wheels so he could get out. I flipped a car with the cam lock seat belt latch and got oil on it. Because I was upside down and my weight was hanging on the belts along with being slippery from the oil, I could not turn the cam and I was trapped in the car with fuel running out. I will never drive a car with cam lock no matter how great anybody says they are because I have never had an issue with the other type. I was right behind Ricci Ware, Jr. when he hit the wall so I had a bird's eye view. I am also friends with his brother so I am aware of what he went through. Bottom line for me is the number of people I have seen burned in race cars far out weighs the number of people I have seen receive neck injuries. At the speeds the cars go that I race I do not feel like a neck restraint and full containment seat adds enough safety to justify the extra danger they add. Like I have said before, this is strictly my opinion and I would never try to talk anybody out of getting either of those if that is their preference. Looking at pictures of you around the race track it appears you are not a firm believer in nomex underwear because both pictures I saw you were wearing a tee shirt under your fire suit. I believe nomex underwear is EXTREMELY important but if your choice is to not wear it I will surely not get on here and tell you how stupid I think you are. I have researched nomex underwear and understand the reason for it so I would never drive a race car without wearing it under my fire suit. Again, we are both safety conscience but just have different opinions. Not laziness, not comfort related and not financially motivated. Good luck to you with your racing business and endeavors this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 Sprintsrule.....YOU SAID IT ..I AM NOT KEEN ON SOMEONE KNOCKING OTHERS FOR NOT WANTING TO WEAR SOMETHING THEY FEEL IS SAFER ..THOUGH I HAVE ALOT OF RESPECT FOR JC ...DONT KNOW HIM PERSONALLY .BUT BEEN AROUND RACEN ALONG TIME AND HAVE ADMIRED HIS SKILLS .....I DO ADMIRE HIS PASSION FOR ALL THE SAFETY FEATURES HE WILL SELL AT COST ..BUT IT ISNT FOR EVERYONE ..AND NO ONE SHOULD EVER BE LOOKED DOWN UPON WHEN THEY DON'T SHARE THE SAME VALUES ...added note if i had the money for a hans ..id most likely buy one .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumper Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 I find it intresting that some think a neck restraint is the most important item on a race car.I read the pros and cons and would still never wear one given the choice.If it was my son,daughter or wife that might be different.My point was unless you want racing to be only for the well to do,dont make it too expensive.Like the government is trying to do by making it illegal for anyone under 18 work on a farm there is such a thing as going overboard. That being said,to me the most important safty item is the car itself.My car has a crush zone everywhere except the drivers door and roof.Like the safer barriers a crumple zone will soften the impact greatly.In the case of a frontrunner,no bracing under the hood is allowed so the crumple zone built in by the factory is sufficent deflection.Do we need neck restraints on the highway running 70 mph?the same reasoning says yes.I reciently hit the gard rail at my local track and the car wedged in the rail so there was no energy deflection by bouncing off.The left headlite aera took the full impact and the strut tower knocked the brake boster off.The headlite aera was where ihe strut used to be.Yes my neck was a little sore the next day but the drivers cabin was totally intact.The belts gave me black and blue stripes and my keys pierced my leg.( forgot to leave them in my truck.)My left arm was skinned by the fender washer I used to mount my window net lower front.The car was destroyed but my crush zone worked and saved me more than a neck brace would have in a ridgid frame car.As for fire I only carry enough fuel to run a feature with 20 or so yellow laps included.My current car holds 2 1/2 gallons.That allowes me to position the tank in a safe place.I used to be frightened in my modified carrying 32 gallons of methanol as did all the other mods.Fortunately methanol ignites with more difficulty due to less BTUs The debate will always be ongoing about whats safe enough.Staying home is the safest.Unfortunately too many are doing just that.All safty items should be understood,encouraged but ultimately each teams decision how much is neededHow do the restraint proponets feel about motorcycles?Would you let your son drive one?The government once tried to outlaw them completely for "saftys sake."A lot of people quit riding because motorcycles just got too expensive.Is that where racing is today?A sport only for the wealthy? On an unrelated note about 2:30 AM about 12 miles north of Raymondville where the cement deviders were placed for construction I was going south when I saw very bright lites in my lane,the only lane,looking like a head on collision fixing to happen.I literly came to a stop and saw a bus had cratered the devider and the bus was hurt bad on the rf.The bright lites werre the brain dead cops that were facing the oncomming traffic with their brights on.They were re-routing the traffic to the other side of the barrier.How did they think anyone could see the danger after being blinded by 4 or 5 cars with bright lites along with spotlits?I told them so but they were just too arrogant to listen.Then 5 miles from home I faced the same thing.Apparently a car had rolled and was facing backwards in the left side parking lane.Again these rocket surgons faced oncomming traffic with bright lites and spotlites.Again I had to stop so I could see the single lane they left open.So danger is everywhere even with police cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilnut 20 Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 GB, I agree with you. For upmost safety, all tracks should be required to install safer barriers! Which local tracks have complied with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBSF Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 ...Fire IS a huge concern, how's the track staffed with equipment and trained personnel? Anyone go by and visit with them, see what's what? coming from working on the THR safety crew i can say that safety crew is top notch. not even having to go into having the kyle fire department, we had an army medic, volenteer fireman, redcross certified, and over 50 years of combined racing experiance. so before you question a safety crew watch them operateon a night and try to find safety mistakes. Yes sir Sgt, your response is what I'm looking for, although I didn't and won't name any names. You may have misunderstood me and assumed I was bashing a track, when all I wanted to see was if those concerned with their safety had actually been involved with or visited with the safety crews of their tracks. Most tracks have EXCELLENT people in these roles, and they, like most racers, are happy and proud to have people ask questions. In previous posts there was concern raised over vehicle exit during a fire event and possible delay caused by a head restraint, and to me that makes the track safety folks' role that much more important. I'm NOT criticizing HMP, THR, or ANYONE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8G RACING FAMILY Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 PAUL everyone will pick apart your post if they have a feeling its towards themselves i also read your post and didnt see where it pointed at anyone ..i can say that all have a point and some good some bad ..paul on the other hand you are sometimes pointed out as the bad guys cause you punch holes in someones theorys ..lets keep talking keep it up ..all of you pass it on .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielsen Motorsports Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 In the early 80's I wore... * A nice Motorcycle helmet * Single layer firesuit that wasnt all that great to start with. * No gloves * No window screen for flying rocks * No window net * tennie shoes * fruit of the looms socks and underwear not sure if they were perfectly clean all the time. * a fiberglass racing set no cover. * Used set of hand me down racing belts no telling how old We raced every friday and saturday were in many wrecks but was never hurt or burned thank god! We were lucky looking back upon it. Today we are wearing and using. * Snell approved fireproof lite weight helmet * Double layer Nomex race suit. * Racing glooves, nomex underwear and socks. * neck collar * Aluminum racing set * Racing belts 5 point harness under 2 years old * Racing shoes * Window screen and window net * Quick release steering wheel. I know we could do alot more but I also see we do alot more then most. Things have turned for the best over the years and continue evolving but a track must at least state the minimum requirements and inforce them. I love my sport dont need to be hurt and dont want to see anyone hurt but each team should try to upgrade something each year no matter what you current have and thats what we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBSF Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 Nick (And others) will be Pissed at me if this turns into Bashing... But after talking with other racers.. really have to Ask... I just bought a new Han's (Sport II Series) and basiclly it was $700 Bucks... I have been using someone else's Han's on loan and needed to return it.. How many people are not racing because they can't afford the Manditory Head & Neck ontop of Reguar Racing Costs? Please Constructive! I believe that if this rule of head/neck restraints was mandatory at my home track, car count would suffer and comments regarding it would be identical to those on this thread. I suspect this would occur across the land, with counts dropping by 20% or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRfan Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 First off I want to make it good and clear- I am not a driver at any track of any kind I am only a crew member. So with that said this is my outside observations and opinions. I just spent the last hour or so going through rules for just about every track listed on the front page of Lonestar Speedzone. Thunderhill is the ONLY track that requires head and neck restraint for all classes. HMP is the only other track that requires it in their top "high speed classes". All other tracks seem to require only a collar, but recommend head and neck restraints. Neither track that does require them in any class require the most expensive one out there. However ALL TRACKS require a fire extinguisher to mounted within reach of driver while buckled in. Everybody has the privledge to race at the track of their choosing. But with that choosing, you choose to race by that tracks rules. I personally would not let the minimum safety requirements stop me from racing, if I were a driver. I understand that some think head and neck restraint will slow you down in the process of getting out of your car in a fire. But you wont be able to get out of the car if your head is no longer attached to your neck. More people have died in racing accidents from head injuries than in fires... I think, no research on that. Now to answer the orininal question... at THR the mods, trucks, and late models have had low car counts all year so far and I believe that the head and neck restraint requirements are not new for those classes. So I dont think that would be a reason for the low car counts, at least in those classes. Safety equipment should be first priority, then speed/performance. Thank you for allowing me to post my opinion on the matter, even though the cost of head and neck restraints has absolutely no impact on my wallet one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGTxDEUCE Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 ...Fire IS a huge concern, how's the track staffed with equipment and trained personnel? Anyone go by and visit with them, see what's what? coming from working on the THR safety crew i can say that safety crew is top notch. not even having to go into having the kyle fire department, we had an army medic, volenteer fireman, redcross certified, and over 50 years of combined racing experiance. so before you question a safety crew watch them operateon a night and try to find safety mistakes. Yes sir Sgt, your response is what I'm looking for, although I didn't and won't name any names. You may have misunderstood me and assumed I was bashing a track, when all I wanted to see was if those concerned with their safety had actually been involved with or visited with the safety crews of their tracks. Most tracks have EXCELLENT people in these roles, and they, like most racers, are happy and proud to have people ask questions. In previous posts there was concern raised over vehicle exit during a fire event and possible delay caused by a head restraint, and to me that makes the track safety folks' role that much more important. I'm NOT criticizing HMP, THR, or ANYONE! RB sorry if it sounded like i was upset or offended. thats not the point i wanted to get across. i actually recomend drivers and crews get to know the safety crews and their qual. im not in this posting in thids thread to bash any person or track. the tracks set thier rules based on exp and feeling. if you dont like the rules dont race. i had no problem with the rules i just cant afford it if i could i would be racing a mod or truck, but thats life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprintsrule Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 I understand that some think head and neck restraint will slow you down in the process of getting out of your car in a fire. But you wont be able to get out of the car if your head is no longer attached to your neck. More people have died in racing accidents from head injuries than in fires... I think, no research on that. I think that is the key. I would rather my head not be attached to my neck than be trapped in a car on fire. As far as how many have died from neck injury vs. fire, I only care about the short track statistics because that is all I will ever be racing. If some rich fool put me in a 200 MPH lighter than air car I would gladly wear the neck restraint but that is not what we are discussing. I do not know where to find the short track statistics but my experience is I know more short track racers who have died or been burned in fires than I know who have had serious neck injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGTxDEUCE Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 please nobody take this post as bashing any track. in my class this is the first year the hans( or similar device) has been required. this year our car count has been between 6-9. im not argueing that it slows me down from getting out of the car ( neither does my belly or any other fat part of me, but thanks for the concern) i just cant put half my budget into one piece of equitment with the exeption ofit being the car. in a final note my class has been labeled by the track that " mini stocks are not RACECARS they are cars that race." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 please nobody take this post as bashing any track. in my class this is the first year the hans( or similar device) has been required. this year our car count has been between 6-9. im not argueing that it slows me down from getting out of the car ( neither does my belly or any other fat part of me, but thanks for the concern) i just cant put half my budget into one piece of equitment with the exeption ofit being the car. in a final note my class has been labeled by the track that " mini stocks are not RACECARS they are cars that race." anyone who said mini stocks are not racecars ..need help up above their shoulder .....a lot of help.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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