NickHolt Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 supertex and gasman, People just want to know what the rules are and what the purse will be. There is absolutely nothing wrong with seeking answers to those questions - especially since there is a competing mod event the same night and a TAMS event the very next night. People need credible information as they evaluate where to race on a given night. Hopefully, the organizers of the May 7 events will be able to provide the information soon. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 Gasman, once again you think everyone should have the unlimited funds you seem to have, to be able change a car over at a seconds notice, or be able to travel from Houston to SA overnight. If I were Wayne/TAMS and some of my drivers opted to run HMP and not support the regular show at SAS, I'd take it as a personal slap in the face. But hey that's just me!! Ya know, the guy that wrote the story for Late Model Racer Magazine on your driver---YOU'RE WELCOME! Are there pigs flying......Gasman and Supertx agree!! LMAOOOO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 No rules HUH! Sounds like a complete OUTLAW Race! Run whatever you want to, nobody will be DQ'd! Only 3 will be paid anyway! LMAO! Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direct-flo Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 I struck oil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hray Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 If I were Wayne/TAMS and some of my drivers opted to run HMP and not support the regular show at SAS, I'd take it as a personal slap in the face. But hey that's just me!! Reb, why in the world would you take that attitude. Like I said in my original post, The races are not even on the same nite! Why try to put a guilt trip on those that want to run HMP. There may be many reasons drivers want to run both or just HMP. What about the dirt driver that chooses to race dirt instead of support TAMS? What about the TAMS driver that wants to see HMP survive and not go out of business? What about the driver that lives closer to Houston and will spend less money racing HMP ? What about the driver that just doesn't like SAS? Need I go on, or would you reconsider your statement. I can remember when Modifieds couldn't get enough cars to make a race. I think it's great what Wayne has done, but I think it's even greater that mods have an opportunity for even more races. I get a lot of flack on here about my attitudes about TAMS, but to be competitive in a TAMS mod costs over $35,000 / yr, probably about the same as a TSRS car. If I owned a mod this year, I'd jump at a chance to run for a 2X purse, and for my own personal reasons, I'd make the run to SAS for that race too, but I wouldn't fault anyone who didn't want to or couldn't make SAS. I probably shouldn't even get into this, but this class is way out of proportion for cost vs. purse. We finished 2nd in points last year and made a total of $4800 and $280 from the points fund(as I remember) If TAMS is to attain the loyalty you think it deserves, there are a number of changes that need to be made. First Wayne needs to institute rule changes that would lower costs - Q/C rearends, tire rules & treating, engine, etc. Then some major fund raising for the points fund and benefits like comp hotels, and assistance with sponsors, etc would be a good start. It takes more than just someone who knows racing to put together a series. It takes promotion - and if you can't do that you should hire someone that can. The other alternative is what you've got. Now that's just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Pittman Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 Well HRAY I guess what you are saying is Wayne and myself are bad promoters. Well, we are not perfect and we do not have thousands of dollars but we do the best we can with what we have. We apologize for not meeting your expectations. We realize you want to race in NASCAR and have your mind made up you will be there some day, we are not NASCAR we are trying to keep Texas racing as fun and enjoyable as possible. Thanks and those are my opinions. Your money numbers are wrong and you know that so I need not comment on the points money. Please tell the truth!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jracer98 Posted March 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 HMMMM...that's $2700 per race. Is that a combination of operating expense and 1/13th of 100% equipment depreciation? thanks jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shrimp Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 There are plenty of people, out there running TAMS that are not spending any where near $35,000.00 to run the entire season. HRAY if you spent that much to run last year and only finished 2nd in the points you guys were not doing it right. Go play ROMCO and stop running TAMS in the ground. Wayne and Owen are doing a great job, the series is only getting better. I'm sure if the car count stays high through the season, that the pay out will increase. It is still a relatively new series and is still growing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted March 26, 2004 Report Share Posted March 26, 2004 Reb, why in the world would you take that attitude. Need I go on, or would you reconsider your statement. Hray To answer your first question. LOYALTY! Back a few years ago when SAS dropped its Modified class, that left a dozen or so guys with cars, tires, parts, pieces, etc. and nowhere to race. True most probably could have gone back to dirt but, Wayne and Owen stepped up and "voila", TAMS was created. TAMS has continued to grow each year, and will hopefully continue to do so. Maybe not as fast as you want them to, but I think they'll do well. Will it ever get as big as the Featherlight Modified Tour? Who knows, probably not unless they can secure a major, national sponsor, but I don't think that is their intention either. Would more sponsorship and increased points funds help? SURE, what series wouldn't that help. Do those things just fall out of trees? I think we all know that answer. Is TAMS trying? Neither you nor I know what TAMS is doing for sure, so it's nothing anyone can honestly comment on. So to answer your second question, NO! Now before someone tears my head off, I'm not saying those with the resources shouldn't run both show if they have the money, help, motors, tires, etc. to do so. But if I were a TAMS regular, I would make sure I was able to support the series that gives me a chance to race more than once, pays the entire field(assuming the rumors are correct) and has a well known set of rules, before I took a shot in the dark. BTW, I use Dewalt Tools(Kenseth), like Hooters Retaurants(Kulwicki), used to drink Miller beer(Wallace), use Castrol Motor Oil(John Force), etc. Brand loyalty! Fortunately I'm not to point where I need to support Mark Martins Sponsor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.j.&s.racing Posted March 26, 2004 Report Share Posted March 26, 2004 owen, bravo!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy Posted March 26, 2004 Report Share Posted March 26, 2004 LMAO @ Reb! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hray Posted March 26, 2004 Report Share Posted March 26, 2004 I think it's great what Wayne has done. I KNEW I WAS GOING TO GET JUMPED ON FOR THIS ONE! Owen, I'll correct my own quote - "I think it's great what Wayne and Owen have done". Do I think you and Wayne are bad promotors?----No. Do I think you and Wayne are good promotors?----That remains to be seen, but you are at CCS now so Wayne is the one that will guide TAMS. I think it's good we spent 2 years in TAMS, but for us it's time to move on. Like Reb, I hope the car count stays up so purses can increase, but in my opinion it's time to get some professional help to obtain a corp sponsor that will at least guarantee a decent purse, and $800 to win in a series that costs $400 in tires, $50 race fuel, $100 TAMS entry, $150 driver and crew track entry each race is a series that (how can I put this politely?) will attract 2 kinds of racers; those moving thru on their way up (or down) and casual racers that just want to race in a fast class that doesn't require a lot of money relatively speaking. That may be exactly what Wayne envisions TAMS to be, and if so, that's what you've got. As far as being a liar about the winnings, I just got the 1099, glanced at it and sent it to the accountant. I may not have reported it exactly, but I'm not far off. I'll be open and look it up and post the exact amount. Racerx, That brings up the next point. I am the car owner not the driver. I treat racing like I treat my business. I track costs (ALL COSTS) and I can assure you it cost $35K to run 1 season. I also know teams that spent a lot less than that, but before you start deminishing our 2nd place finish, why don't you ask Jerry Schield, Chris Swenson, Bruce Beddoe, James Cole and the other top runners what they spent (ALL COSTS). Jay is right when he jokingly ask if that included 1/13th of the car cost. We had the car, but it wasn't free and it required a total refurbish over the '03 winter. What if we had to replace the whole car like Chris did or rebuild a blown motor like Bruce. I'd be willing to bet whoever spent the least amount of money to run all TAMS events last year spent over $12K and they were probably a backmarker. Reb, As best I can tell by reading and rereading your last post, you agree with me - at least in principle. It just sounds like you, like me, would like to see this series go on to bigger and better things. Maybe even become the ROMCO of modified racing - who knows, maybe even challenge the Featherlite Tour, or become the Featherlite tour of the Texas area. Jay, See what you started!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted March 26, 2004 Report Share Posted March 26, 2004 Why don't you call Bruce Beddoe and ask him how much he spent last year. Bet it wasn't anywhere close to what you spent. Some drivers don't need to spend a ton of money as they have the talent and experience to race competitively each week. There is nothing wrong with spending money but many guys don't need that to win races. Take a look at Lawrence. He can win in his dirt car! One week he's racin dirt and the next he is on asphalt. That's pure driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NO35KRACING Posted March 26, 2004 Report Share Posted March 26, 2004 jason were is my post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted March 26, 2004 Report Share Posted March 26, 2004 It was deleted by Nick. Read your private messages. We do not allow posts bashing others on here. It did have some good points though but was clearly bashing him. If you had not made the comments about him in NASCAR etc etc then it would have stayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NO35KRACING Posted March 26, 2004 Report Share Posted March 26, 2004 OK! YOU ARE RIGHT. BUT HE IS BASHING THE BEST THING GOING RIGHT NOW!!!! SO HE NEEDS TO GO TO ROMCO AND BE ####################################### Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jracer98 Posted March 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2004 I wasn't joking, I just asked a question. I don't see $2700 per race in operational expense so it was my assumption that it included depreciation of all the equipment. 100% depreciation/year is a much faster rate than I had in my budget model but , hey, that's your business. I would certainly like to hear other team's experiences on costs. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tqj3 Posted March 27, 2004 Report Share Posted March 27, 2004 When I first started racing, an experienced racer asked me a question: You can't race unless you can afford to have your equipment 50 percent destroyed- True or False?. The answer is False. You can't afford to race unless you can afford to have your equipment 100 percent destroyed. If losing your stuff will cause you major problems (not being able to race next year is not a major problem), you can't afford it. Looking at it as 100 percent depreciation isn't a bad idea. That way, if you have anything left at the end of the season, you're ahead of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shrimp Posted March 27, 2004 Report Share Posted March 27, 2004 hray, I'm so glad that you track everything and run racing like a business, because it is. I'm sure most of us racing do the same thing. Yes we are smart enough to track our expenses and report them in our taxes. I guess what really ticked me off, was that the series was fine (or at least i didn't see any negative posts from you before) when you were running it. But now that you have made the choice to move up, you are running the series and the owners/promoters of the series in the ground. Everyone has there right to there opinion, but don't talk down to all of us, acting like you are better than the rest of us. Go spend your money in ROMCO, they will appreciate it. If you spent 35K in a 10-15K series then you should double that amount this year. Please post at the end of your first ROMCO season and let us know how much you spent and how much you made. Another thing if you are so smart then why don't you realize that " backmarkers" as you call them are very important to every class in racing from Bombers to Romco and even NASCAR. I'm sure you might realize all of this when you guys become the backmarkers this year, it is a good possibility. We'll all just sit back and watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97car Posted March 27, 2004 Report Share Posted March 27, 2004 Like you guys said HRay is loking at it like a bussiness and running it from a business standpoint,that figure also probably included mileage and any trip to the store for parts or other important supplies for the team as well as depreciation for all equipment including tow rig and all equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETIRED FAN Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 OK- I have seen all the comments. Now, the TAMS drivers are very competitive, & I feel that they (at least the most competitive) will take the challenge & race at the "Big Show". It is a huge gamble, given the conquences of a wreck on Friday knocking them out of the point race for TAMS for the SAA race the next day. But, knowing these guys, they will be in Houston for the big race. It's good for the Modifieds, It's good for the asphalt Modifieds, Its good for Texas Modified racing. I hope the management of Houston tracks see that they too need to comprimise a little for racing in the important Houston Market! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hray Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 I do look at it like a business - I have to. I wish I didn't know it costs $35K to run a competitive TAMS car. It would be nice to think it only cost say $5K - $10K and just wonder why you never have any extra money! The way the IRS regs are written your racing is either a hobby or a business. There are certain legal requirements depending which you choose to declare your racing as. Most racers haven't done the requirements for either case. If it's a hobby, all winnings and all sponsorship (money or products and services) must be declared as income and taxes paid. If your income exceeds expenses, you pay taxes on the difference. You can offset that income by your expenses only up to the amount of the income (in other words, no loses allowed). All you guys who are just filing 1040EZ's and not reporting the winnings and sponsorship are in violation of IRS rules. If you run it like a business, you must have the potential of at least breaking even or making a profit (winnings and sponsorship). In any year income exceeds expenses you pay taxes. In any year expenses exceed income you can declare a loss. In either case, you better be keeping track of income and expenses. By the way, my CPA says if you've been treating your racing like a hobby, it's difficult to change it over to a business from an IRS standpoint. Here's the point; I run it like a business because I have to and you better believe I keep track of every penny and it does cost $35,000/yr to run a competitive TAMS car! You guys that think the only cost in racing is race fuel and tires probably shouldn't even keep track of that. That way you can always say "someone stole my identity. I've never even seen a race car!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hray Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 RETIREDFAN I've got to agree with you. The HMP race is good for modified racing in TX. and the competitive guys will try to make both. Racing is not for the faint of heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NO35KRACING Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 okay my post got deleted again. so i will bash hray when i see him!! goodbye nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shrimp Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Well HRAY, here we go again. First of all if you are going to mention IRS rules on running your racing as a business don't forget the rule that says that you can only show a loss 2 out of 5 years. Also it says that you have to prove that you can make a profit, doing what you are doing. LET'S SEE 13 races in a season x $800 to win means if you win every race you win $10,400. You spent 35k to make 10k. the IRS would consider what you are doing a hobby. Besides the fact that your earlier post said that you made only around 5k. You better hope this is a year that you can show a loss. See other people do know tax laws about racing. Now enough of that BS lets get a hold of someone to find out what the TOTAL payout is for the May 7th race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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