Auto maker's bailout.

[Definitive]

This could be the most historic thing the U.S. Congress has ever made a decision on.If the government bails out the big three,it is going to set an un-imagined precident.It will set a standard for the partial government ownership for all or at least the majority of our major corporations.If they turn down the request for assistance,it could cause a domino effect that could bring about the collapse of our nation(worst case scenario).

 

Where would it leave stock car racing either way they decide?

 

___if the government becomes partial owner of the big three,does this mean the end of sponsorships?

(afterall the gov. is completely Liberal based now)

___gov. ownership in the auto industry by a Liberal run congress surely means the end of gas powered cars.

___can NASCAR survive by racing electric cars?

___if the auto makers file bankruptcy,can they justify the continued racing expenditure

___filing bankruptcy by the big three means the suppliers will have to follow suit(no more sponsorships from them?)

 

There are many other issues at work here but I thought I would just throw a few out there and see how you all feel about the DOOM AND GLOOM of it all.

 

Either way congress goes,this will be a huge change in direction as far as the U.S. remaining a "true" capitalistic society.

[tqj3]

Racing won't enter into the decision either way, but my take is that the government shouldn't bail out the U. S. auto industry. They'd be better served to go into bankruptcy, which, among other things, would allow them to get rid of those insane UAW contracts and maybe get into profitability. Right now, GM is more of an insurance company than a car maker.

GM has some internal problems as well, and its creditors would likely insist on rolling a few heads as part of a restructuring, also not a bad idea. GM has been doing some things really well (ironically, one of them is incrreasing fuel economy across the board), but they've also made some dumb moves.

Building SUVs wasn't one of them, by the way. They were building and selling what the customers wanted, but the industry isn't set up to redesign and retool faster than two to three years at best, so when the fuel prices jumped, they were caught with a bunch of vehicles that, suddenly, no one wanted to buy.

Forcing them to increase fuel economy, which many think would have been the solution, actually wouldn't have worked. Why build more small cars with small motors when you can't sell all the small cars with small motors you are building now? Buyers would have had no reason to buy those extra cars.

Increasing the fuel taxes by a small amount, maybe by a small amount each year, would have created a market for smaller cars and not put a burden on the consumer as consumers would have time to adjust.

Now they, too, are stuck with big SUVs they can't sell, but the government knew all this would eventually come down and didn't have the foresight, or the nerve, to increase fuel taxes by 50 or 75 cents per gallon.

[HiTech]

WELL IF THE GOVERMENT CAN SAVE THOSE BANKS AND AGI .AND THOSE OTHER CROOKED COMPANYS THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN DECIDED TO BE BANKS ..WHY NOT LOAN THEM THE MONEY .. LOAN I SAID ..BUT THEY HAVE TO RESTUCTURE ..BUT AT THE SAME TIME .IF THEY GO BANKRUPT . THEY CAN GET RID OF THE OVER PAID UNION FOLKS AND RESTRUCTURE THAT TO ... .. .[ AND I KNOW IM GOING TO GET BASHED ON THIS .BUT I DONT GIVE A HOOT .].. THIS IS STICKY ..ITS DAMN IF THEY DO AND DAMN IF THEY DONT ...IM UNDECIDED

[Definitive]

I never for an instant thought racing would come into play with congress' decision here.I just wanted to have a tie into racing since this is a racing related board.Oldtimer...right on the mark...very sticky situation...with negative conotations either way they go.I,like you,am undecided aswell.That is why I wanted to get some other opinions.

 

If GM goes under....700,000 people on pensions are in trouble aswell as the over 400,000 people still working for GM.The media says you can add the loss of over 1.5 million jobs from suppliers.That is 2,500,000 people sitting in front of C-SPAN every night.

[thumper]

The government is not our friend right now.We dont need the government to own ANY US business.What we need is term limits on congress.Clean house.They lied again about that emergency bail out.At least the old saying "FOR THE CHILDREN" has changed to "NEEDED TO SAVE THE ECONOMY".Just watch out for when FDIC becomes insolvent and all the rest of our savings disappears too.And the BIG 3 can ask Toyota and Honda for advice on how to make money.BTW did you see about 3 weeks ago where Volkswagen was the top stock in the world?Right up there with Wallmart.Why should we give money to ANY business people who are loosers including AIG?Because somebodys getting a commission,thats why.Fire them all.

[HiTech]

TURBO EITHER WAY POEPLE ARE LOOSING THIER JOBS AS IT IS ..THE PROBLEM I SEE IN ONE WAY .IF THEY DONT GET THE LOAN . AND UNIONS LOOSE TO ..THEN IF THE BIG THREE RESTRUCTURE .AND THE UNION POEPLE WONT GO BACK TO WORK WITH OUT THE DEAL THEY HAVE NOW .THE BIG THREE WILL HAVE TO HIRE OUTSIDE THE UNION WORKERS .THAT COULD BE REALLY HARD AND DO IT IN ENOUGH TIME IN ORDER TO SAVE THEMSELFS FROM GOING COMPLETLY UNDER ..AND THAT WOULD CUZ ANOTHER . TRUCKERS STRIKE TYP OF THING WE WENT THROUGH IN THE 70.S I WAS THERE FOR THAT AND IT WAS UGLY ..MY BROTHER WAS A TRUCKER BACK THEN .. HE WAS SHOT AT LEAVEING A PLACE UP WEST TEXAS . THREE POEPLE CHASED HIM AND SHOT HIS TRUCK UP GOING DOWN THE ROAD .. THEY THE THREE ARE NO LONGER WITH US ..I DONT WANT TO SEE THAT AGAIN ..

[ProTree]

anybody ever read the 2007 agreement GM has with the UAW after the strike?

[1-Crew]

It's a two way street for sure but I see it this way - the big three had all the predictions, pressure from green groups etc. to give them the long term view that eventually the american public would be looking for more fuel efficient cars. Watch the docudrama "who killed the electric car", a story about how GM had an all electric vehicle that would go 100 miles on a charge because it was mandated by California. GM would only lease these vehicles and when the lease was up and the legislation repealed, GM opted to crush them rather than let them be purchased by the public. GM, and the others, opted for the short term profit and continued to push the high margin vehicles (SUV, full size luxury cars and pickups) rather than focus on developing cars for the next generation market.

 

The union is not above blame in this as well. I have worked at the Delphi plant in Kokomo, IN. A 100% union shop where it takes eight hours to do what should take one because the job requires three trades to get done. Call the electrician to remove two wires (push on connections). Call the fitter to vent the tool and remove two quick disconnect water fittings. Call the mechanic to remove three screws and put the assembly on a cart. Take a break between each operation.. I wanted a gas bottle brought over from the storage area. It was a lecture bottle, 12" long and 2" in diameter. I was told I could not get it until the next day because it was on a pallet and the fork truck driver was gone for the day. I opted to put in my pocket and the fork truck driver brought me an empty box on a pallet the next day..

 

The big three are assembling cars in Canada and Mexico while Toyota and Honda are assembling cars in the US. Duh!

 

Will it hurt if they fail, yes. Will we be better in the long run if they fail, I think so. It's called "tough love". The worst part is the executives that made the decisions that got them into this mess will not suffer nearly as much as the workers.

[Budman]

In the face of total economic collapse and the demise of western civilization as we know it, something I've seen coming for quite some time, I'd say "RUN FOR THE HILLS!". OH WAIT ......... I've already done that!

[supertx]

The big 3 has brought this on themselfs.IWOULD SAY NO TO THE HELP but your talking about 2 million jobs on the line so thats got to factor in to the equations.I think they will bankrupt clean the sheet and start over.I think that is not just the car companys but alot of other companys that are top heavy IT WILL be the new way of doing bussiness like it or not it's just like racing there is no perfect answer some are going to lose some are going to gain.What ever happens something has got to change

[1-Crew]

In a true free market economy, if the demand is there, someone will fill the demand. If any one of the big three collapse, someone will fill the gap - either one of the other two left or the imports. If not, then the demand really did not justify the supply.. For all those industries that support the big three, if one or all fail then there will be that much more demand from Honda and Toyota and the remaining car companies for supplies, workers, etc. They can sell their services to the companies remaining AS LONG AS THEY ARE COMPETITIVE! There will be a market adjustment in average wages and wholesale prices as demand continues to fall. We will see a shift back from the "disposable economy" meaning there will be more emphasis on repairing what we have instead of throwing it away and buying a new one. Be that our cars, appliances, or whatever..

[HiTech]

In the face of total economic collapse and the demise of western civilization as we know it, something I've seen coming for quite some time, I'd say "RUN FOR THE HILLS!". OH WAIT ......... I've already done that!

not high enough ....

[Budman]

Probably not O/T

 

Now, if you believe in such things ............. its all spelled out for you, plain as day, right there in the back of your book.

[jakdad]

The government is not our friend right now.We dont need the government to own ANY US business.What we need is term limits on congress.Clean house.They lied again about that emergency bail out.At least the old saying "FOR THE CHILDREN" has changed to "NEEDED TO SAVE THE ECONOMY".Just watch out for when FDIC becomes insolvent and all the rest of our savings disappears too.And the BIG 3 can ask Toyota and Honda for advice on how to make money.BTW did you see about 3 weeks ago where Volkswagen was the top stock in the world?Right up there with Wallmart.Why should we give money to ANY business people who are loosers including AIG?Because somebodys getting a commission,thats why.Fire them all.

 

I totally agree. Now that we sent the AIG execs on an all expense paid trip to the tropics, everyone has their hand out. Give it to them this time and they will be back for more or until the well runs dry. Ronald Reagan said the 9 most undesirable words to the American tax payer: I'm from the government, and I'm here to help".

[Definitive]

All three execs flew to Washington in the private jets,earning the scorn of some of the senators.Anyway you look at it,there is just way too much hipacracy involved.

[landlord]

America is SUPPOSE to be a free economy!!!!!!!!Let the chips fall where they may,period!!!!!!!!!!!On the other hand I wonder if the home builders will get any money from the government???

[Josh42]

I remember when I used to work for a chevrolet dealer and we would get our parts shipments in we would have the plastic totes with one sensor or one flasher and this would happen in four or five tubs. There was many times when I would go to help the driver take stuff off and you would pull a part out and have five others fall at you and we're talkin about hoods, doors, and bed side panels.

[wheelchair49]

I have a question for everyone to mull over would the goverment bail out Wal-mart if they were going under?

[97car]

Well if all of these companies wouldn't be out sourcing so much work overseas maybe the public could afford to buy stuff. Keep in mind GM has been doing well in China with Buick and as far as WalMart they are a big reason why the economy in China is booming right now as well maybe the government should start taxing all of this out sourced work or items and put that money back into social security.

[HiTech]

if the big three go into bankrupt .alot of companys will lose the money thats owed them ..not saying they wouldnt already ..but i cant help but wonder whos it going to hurt the most .....it will take years for the big three to come out of it if ever .... in the mean time alot those companys that supply parts will go under too ...which could mean .that little trip to your local parts store is going to cost awhole lot more for that part verses todays price ..if that part is available ....even junk yards will be charging a ton more money for those parts .toyota honda cant replace all the other makes cars fast enough to cover the lost from broken down suv.s and such .... either way this goes it isnt going to be a joy ride ..

[Definitive]

.....and we thought Pres. Reagan was on crack when he said we should slowly raise gas prices to four dollars a gallon in order to prevent all of this doom and gloom.Go to Heritage.com and sign up.Yes,he did predict this.He warned about the grip oil had on this country....and look what a "RAPID" raise in gas prices did to everything.People went from paying $300 a month for gas to $800 a month.They couldn't afford a house they barely got into in the first place.They forclosed.Once enough houses were foreclosed,the world's largest insurer of bad debt went belly up(AIG).People couldnt afford new cars,so now the big three are a goner.Once the big three go so will their suppliers.Once there are about 15 million people out of work the restaurants,motels,theme parks,on and on will follow suit.

 

If you aren't worried about doom and gloom and think it's a big joke....go online and research how the top 10% of people in other countries live compared to the bottom 90%.Goodbye racing lol.

 

On a bright note...we could come out of this on top anyway because when it comes to economics....just like militarily...no other country can stand as they are if we fall.So....they will come to our rescue...they have no choice...CitiBank just got help from the middle east.

[HiTech]

well reed and gang are on tv right this second telling everyone if the big three can come up with something in order to protect our investment by december 2 .they will try again to get em the money ....boy wonder what they could come up with in short time ...funny how both sides .dem and rep .have screwed the goose with our money ..... hey dem.s and rep ..how aboult alittle money for me so i can buy christmas .. im sure i can find something i want ..if not .ill put it in to real use ..fix up the racecars ...

[Budman]

Just a little something for my friends on here to keep in mind ............... During a period of deflation, the dollar you keep in your pocket and don't spend today will be worth more tomorrow.

[racer61]

Just a little something for my friends on here to keep in mind ............... During a period of deflation, the dollar you keep in your pocket and don't spend today will be worth more tomorrow.

not really. The value of the dollar is dropping like a rock in the world pond.

 

Wonder if there is racing in Russia?

[HiTech]

Just a little something for my friends on here to keep in mind ............... During a period of deflation, the dollar you keep in your pocket and don't spend today will be worth more tomorrow.

a dollar .where can i find one ..all i have is pennys