weirracing Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Arthur, Couldn't agree more. Being the tech is not a place to make friends, but where drivers/crews prove your honesty. It was actually a good call to wait till season END to pull engines, instead of mid-season. The wonderful thing about local tracks, you do get the option to NOT go through with what tech wants you to have inspected. It also puts you in a spot to have to defend your decision not to. Either way, both drivers did a great job all year. Oh yeah, Arthur, it was Kyle's birthday Saturday...he may have been on a birthday cake sugar high!!! For the most part, it was a clean race, noone really tore up too bad... The modw were another story!!! Congrats to you too!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonSenseRacing Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 so the points leader lost the championship cause he wouldnt pull the motor?? If they drop 3 races like they are doing in the Pro Stock Car class, how would Jason loose the Championship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ups88john Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 do they count the 3 rainouts as the 3 dropped races? or can they still drop 3 races? big john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landlord Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 so the points leader lost the championship cause he wouldnt pull the motor?? If they drop 3 races like they are doing in the Pro Stock Car class, how would Jason loose the Championship? Because he lost his points for the whole year!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weirracing Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 W O W !!! I was there saturday, and didn't hear that!! That would make me second guess pulling the engine if it meant a forfit for the WHOLE season.... But people have reasons for their decisions. Maybe the testing thing is for some big race that has an even bigger purse... Maybe Kyle didn't want to have to drive back to Houston to get his engine back...Maybe they both have legal engines, and legit reasons for not pulling..... innocent until proven guilty.... But I know if i spent all that money all year long to race, i'd have pulled mine. Then again, we live in Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 One of the bad things about refusing tech is the doubt it places in the minds of your fans and competitors, some of whom are no doubt already convinced you are cheating. I know these guys are fully aware of that, and I'm not knocking their decision. It was completely up to them, and they are the one that will have to abide by the consequences. We were in a similar situation on our last race night. We figured Jack was going to pull heads, and we finished in the top 3. We could have refused tech and still won the championship, but we were ready to tear down. Personally, I like showing the doubters that we can win legally. As it turned out, we only had to pull the intake manifold for tech, but we were ready to do much more than that. It's just a personal decision that each team will someday have to make. All that said, I am a little surprised that so many of them refused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrungot Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 What is the cost to a race team to pull a crate motor and have the "dyno" done? I know there is a cost to tear down a motor.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacecar Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Where is the maximum allowed horsepower specified in the rules? What a dyno test would do is indicate which motor made more power. It's commonly known that the McGunnigill Ford motor makes good power and better torque than the crate Chevy's and the crate Ford's. So you measure a power level of 437 hp (SAE Standardized Corrected Power). Even if it is a sealed motor from an approved rebuilder, does this mean it's illegal? Does it mean that it should be completely disassembled and inspected? What is the allowed HP limit? Who pays for the disassembly and reassembly (several thousand dollars)? I'm interested to hear the details for all those who did elect to pull their motors. Perhaps there was a written test & inspection plan for all to review before the racers were mandated to pull their engines. The whole concept of crate motor racing is based upon reliable seals placed on the motor by approved rebuilders and reliable rpm limiting ignitions. If these can be compromised, then crate motor racing was just a passing fad. P.S. Who is this Jason Young? Maybe we'd know if he were to have won an HMP championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speed demon 7 Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 The cost for a Dyno run is about $350 per pull. The track was to pay for it. If a motor was found illegal, the team payed for it or didn't get the motor back. There are specs that each motor have, and if they were way beyond the specs, well, then they would investigate further. Jason Young drives the 27 PLM. He also races a Super Late at Pensacola. He has won from the front, and from the rear of the feild and has never finished outside of 4th place at HMP this year. He is scheduled to run the Snowball in both the Super and the PLM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landlord Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 HMP is paying the dyno bill.It was my understanding that if the H.P./Torque numbers were "inline" with what Cleat has found to be the"norm" they would be handed back to the teams.As for sealed motor rules,well let's just say that there has never been ANY RULE made for ANY engine that someone has not figured away around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speed demon 7 Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Hey Landlord, you gonna give me a ride for next year if I lose mine?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Wright Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 After reading a few post here I would have to say that the overlying theme is, no one really believes the 27 or 93 cheated. Both cars have showed dominance so, they where on the tracks radar and went through several track inspections during the course of this season. Sure the 27 car has won a share of the races but one could argue that he wasn’t always the fastest car he just has more experience on this track with these cars. The track officials did what they believed to be right and I think EVERYONE respects that however, racing at this level becomes a business and it certainly doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to tear a car down to win $300 when you are preparing the same car to take four states away for testing in preparation for one of the biggest short track races of the season that pays $7000 to win, $1000 for the pole, plus media coverage from everyone in the stock car racing world. Bottom line the track did what they felt was fair but these teams had to but things in perspective. One point in closing when these cars unload at Five Flags Ricky Brooks is going to check every item in detail before they’re allowed to even make a qualifying attempt. So what would be the purpose in taking a illegal car there? Good luck with your Derby hopes boys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landlord Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Hey Landlord, you gonna give me a ride for next year if I lose mine?? Give you a ride???I am still trying to get all the parts together for mine!!!I have been involved with alot of different types of racing through the years and the Late Model class wins the most expensive award"HANDS DOWN" !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProTree Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 You have a "good point" Mike.But, then you'll also have people who will question if the same "get up" will be in the car at Florida,as was in Houston.There will always be questions,regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloyd#5 Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Legal or not legal, which i think both are legal, why would anyone want to pull their motor for 300 dollars with the snowflake coming up? What a joke. I think one tech man out there has a problem with people getting their motors from people like mcgunegill or phil harper and is out to punish them but that is just my opinion. I wouldnt have pulled my motor either if i was them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GINGERBREADMAN Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 thank you lloyd you took the words right out of my mouth. I have a lot to say about the situation that took place saturday night,but am trying to calm down some before I post so Nick will not edit me.Under the same circumstances I would probably have not pulled my motor either.I was faster than both of those cars in practice, why didn't they want my motor?Can somebody please tell me another track in the country that the tech man gets to race in one of the premier classes and call the shots on who and what gets teched, gets to see everybody's set up as they go across the scales, and is also in the chassis business. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!GOOD GOD.....I need a drink..........ticked off is an understatement....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Huh? The Tech man races in the same class he techs????????? Please clarify! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 I think most racers that are worried about the integridy and fairness in racing would pull there engine for $3 much less $300. I can't say if they were was cheating or not but, when your winning and you have the chance to prove your engine is legal simply by pulling it and dynoing it, why would you not do this. You could easily pull the engine Sat night, dyno it Sun morning and have it back in by Sunday night if you were worried about time. I applaud the effort of HMP to try and make sure things stay fair with the crates. I just wished some of this would have happened earlier, we may still be racing. There were times in ROMCO were we had to pull the heads on the concept engines and these were supers so the tech on crates should be even tougher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weirracing Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Just because the "tech" person races a car in the same class he techs, does NOT guarantee that he can use the information from other drivers setups to benefit himself!! We ran in a series that the tech/director had a son and a best friend in the series and we had the same concern. But, if you think about it, everyone drives differently. One person's set up may be undrivable to another! So, we didn't give it a second thought. A front runner isn't just made up of a setup alone. The driver has to be able to drive THAT setup! Not to mention, the "tech" guy didn't drive a Late Model he drove a Mod. I doubt very seriously that he uses setup notes from a PLM and runs over to his Mod to use it! If you go back and look at the season, why don't you count how many races Randy actually DROVE in!!! Not to mention, I wouldn't doubt that sometimes when he sees a setup on a car, he doesn't just laugh, if he even notices at all! As far as your remark on his so-called chassis work...Randy did the chassis on our car and we won the Championship at HMP the first full year out. We were leading the Championship the next year at Kyle when we came into engine failures, and a hard crash in another race...But the chassis was top notch! I'm not trying to "tick" you off, i'm just stating the facts. Like someone posted, when you race in a series, you are subject to the rules and procedures like everyone else. Those people are the only ones who really know why they didn't pull their engines, it's not for us to assume. Even though many will.... Kathie Weir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprintsrule Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 I believe in teching cars. I have had to pull heads, oil pans and transmissions after the race and except for cutting into the beer time I had absolutley no problem doing it. However, if I lived four hours from the track and they asked me to pull the engine and leave it with them for a dyno run, I may have to decline that one. Racers have a lot of money invested in their engines and I can understand them having a problem with what they were asked to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landlord Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 I have not seen Randy teching cars since mid season.I thought that tall guy was our new tech!!!!What does Randy racing in the Mods have to do with the PLM racers not wanting to pull their motors?Just curious!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhcougs Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 from what i hear randy's only running to try and sell the car that got wrecked Saturday night, and to have a little fun. whats wrong with that? Ive never had a reason to question Randy's integrity. In fact I never see him in tech anymore unless the 'new' tall guy has a rules clarification question, and even then its kept to general statments and never about a specific car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey741 Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 I have not seen Randy teching cars since mid season.I thought that tall guy was our new tech!!!!What does Randy racing in the Mods have to do with the PLM racers not wanting to pull their motors?Just curious!!!! The tall guy is Jack Sandefur. Demon 7 wrote Everyone knows you can cheat a sealed motor. I am not saying that they did, but the decision was made the morning of the race to pull them. As for a Chassis Dyno, Bumbera doesn't have one anymore, I don't think. Not sure where the info comes from but seems like they were going to pull the motors no matter who won! There goes your conspiracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speed demon 7 Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Randy Anderson is head of tech, but you don't see him in tech. There are 3-4 other people that do the teching, including Jack Sandefur, who is a great tech man. He knows what he is doing. Randy does not see our cars on the scales, what's under the hood, or whatever. He makes the decision of what is to be teched before the races begin and the tech guys know what to do after the races. I know people don't like Randy, but don't let your hatred towards him as a driver try to ruin his and the tracks integrity as for teching. Pulling a motor is not fun, and I know it was not an easy decision for Jason Young to say NO after running all season. I am sure they had their reason, and I am sure it is a good reason. He would have been know as the Texas State Pro Late Model Champion and the HMP PLM Champion, and that looks good on any resume. The decisions have been made and until one of them come on here and explain it, all we can do is speculate. But yes, it will put doubt in everyones mind from now on out of whether they were legal, even though most of us know they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landlord Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 If they don't like Randy it's because he is a call it like you see it kind of guy!!!I for one like that quality in a person,never been much for butt kissers!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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