THR drivers......SAFETY!

[rebelracewriter]

Ok.......<<<<SIGH>>>> first I noticed SEVERAL drivers not wearing driving gloves!!!

 

Here's a test.....next time you're camping or burning brush/leaves, throw an empty beer can in the fire. Now try to get it out bare-handed. About the same as trying to get your harness unlocked during an in-car fire!!!

 

I asked several drivers, "How long does it take to get out of your car."

 

Most answered, "pretty fast" but none could give me an exact answer. Only one said he has actually tried since my safety tyrade began.

 

So I guess I'll appeal to the wives, girlfriends/boyfriends of these drivers to put driving gloves on the X-mas shopping list for those drivers.

[dancer52]

Give it up...you cant handle the heat get out of the kitchen. It is the racers option as to how he races, they have to live with the results. Most everything you are harping on is a joke anyway....2 layer fire suits...so now you have 15 seconds to get out....fire suppression...got to be awake to even activate it and if you do it almost has to be aimed exactly on the fire to help, want to aim it at the driver...good idea...it removes the oxygen from the air (same stuff your gonna need to get out) Your worried about the batteries next to the fuel cells...ok...what happenes when two pieces of metal hit each other with force....sparks... Now from what I hear is that this guy was hurt because his hutchens device hung up on his full containment seat....ironic I would say.

 

I am not saying safety is unimportant but racing is DANGEROUS people are going to get hurt, no matter how much you do there is gonna be a chance of getting hurt. I have been racing for 17 years.....if I get hurt because of something I failed to buy...that is my choice. I do belive in educating the racer so he can make his own decision....but you are making it sound like this stuff will save you....this stuff will just give you a better chance of avoiding an injury....if it is your time...its your time....AJ

[rebelracewriter]

AJ.....HUH?

 

So you're saying I'm wasting my time? Well sir, I don't feel that way and I would have thought, you would have agreed with me. We've never had any problems between us before.....so what's the deal?

 

As far as saving someone........if ONE person is saved from himself, so to speak, because of my posts I feel that Ryan and I have accomplshed something.

 

To set the story straight he had a HANS not Hutchens, that may or may not have hung on the seat. We may never know the answer to that and to speculate is nothing I care to do. It may have hung on the steering wheel, roll bars or not at all for all anyone knows.

 

I'll get further into other safety issues I see, batteries/placement was just my first. If you're not interested then it's your option to skip right over the suckers and do as you please.

 

As for when "it's your time".......I have a long arguement against that theory.

[dancer52]

I am not saying your wasting your time....but I am saying its ok to inform...but to bully people into living life your way is unamerican..... educating is ok...but pushing so hard is not going to help. And I did know it was a hans...dont know why I typed hutchens....AJ

[NickHolt]

Stick with the program, Reb. Most of us appreciate what you are trying to do and why you are trying to do it.

 

Nick

[HiTech]

reb sticking with your convictions is great and educating poeple on safety is what you should keep doing ..you have gotten some of the drivers to look and make changes to thier cars ..so you get an [A] for that ..dont give up ..but dont push which is what i think 52 is saying ...... goes back to the old saying ... YOU CAN LEAD A HORSE TO WATER //BUT ..........

[rebelracewriter]

ME.......a bully.......live life my way.......unamerican........that's funny AJ.

[sprintsrule]

rebelracewriter,

Keep up the good work. Keep pushing as hard as you are. I know people that have already made changes because you have brought up some good points. I think it is very important to point out to people how little time they actually have. I believe many drivers do not understand how little protection a one layer suit with no underwear gives them.

 

dancer52,

You don't think 15 seconds is important? I will sure take the 15 over 5 or even less. I think it is extremely important to point out to people how little time they actually have and how much they can increase it by adding an extra layer to the suit and some nomex underwear. I had to read your post about 10 times because I just could not believe somebody would be negative about somebody pointing out safety issues. It is not like he is calling your house and bugging you at home about it. Do not read his post if you do not like the topic. Please do not discourage anybody from bringing up safety issues.

 

KEEP IT UP REB!

[KISS_Racing]

Reb,

 

Keep up the good work!

 

I think a firebottle/fire suppression system should may manditory in EVERY class. And placement should be manditory according to class to where driver/track official know and can get to it. Notice I didn't say safety crew, official/corner worker tend to be on the scene before firetruck. I believe that training and what to tell each other is ever so important. As a whole I think the safetycrew at THR does a great job...

 

BTW, if you have ever read the instructions on a firebottle it tells you to take a deep breath before activating/deploying firesystem.

 

Also, for those who werent at COT(Clash of the Titans) this year when one of the 10.5W mustangs went on it's roof due to brake failure. It was some of the rule changes/modifications and overengineering that saved that kids life.

[landlord]

Once you satisfy the rulebook,safety becomes a personal decision.I am the only one in our pack that puts a helmet on to go Harley riding.I try and tell them all why they need to wear a helmet(statistics,personal experiences,etc.)They won't wear helmets and don't want to hear me preach about it.This is a little different if someone don't want to read what you have to say on "Rebs:safety seminar thread"don't click!!!!!!

[RBSF]

We've come quite a ways since this post series, equipment and awareness has been elevated, and I believe Reb has the same convictions he had then. I am curious about a couple things:

1. AJ, where do you stand now? (seriously, not meant offensively)

2. As safety advocates, should we do things differently to call attention to areas of safety concerns?

3. As a direct result of Ryan's death, have safey improvements/requirements ruined the sport?

4. Are there safety equipment related questions that need to be addressed?

Thanks to Reb, and to all who have learned from mistakes of the past.

[UMSCHEIDRaceServices]

We've come quite a ways since this post series, equipment and awareness has been elevated, and I believe Reb has the same convictions he had then. I am curious about a couple things:

1. AJ, where do you stand now? (seriously, not meant offensively)

2. As safety advocates, should we do things differently to call attention to areas of safety concerns?

3. As a direct result of Ryan's death, have safey improvements/requirements ruined the sport?

4. Are there safety equipment related questions that need to be addressed?

Thanks to Reb, and to all who have learned from mistakes of the past.

 

 

After having a Friend/customer killed in a racing accident I have a totally diffrent outlook on the saftey side of things. I took saftey serious prior to the wreck, but it makes you think now before you roll onto the track. I wish I would of seen this thread sooner, cause I would of had to ask AJ what he was smoking in the first few posts!!! So I want to know where he stands on these issues now.....

 

Reb buddy keep on keepin' on!!! your doing a good thing my friend

 

J.C Umscheid

[RBSF]

Honestly, AJ has supported the rollover simulator and (if I remember correctly) had someone in it. I really am just curious how things and perspectives might have changed, NOT picking on AJ!!!

[jwmbishop]

I personally know someone who had his car roll and burn real bad. The dry sump burst and the oil went everywhere - and when some hit the header the flames just erupted. he got out in under 15 seconds, and the track crew were on him with both water and co2 - just a couple relatively small third degree burns. really quite lucky He only lost about 18 square inches of skin and muscle. the only shame was - it was all on the backs of his hands and his fingers. he now has three fingers - 2 on one hand and a thumb - none longer than the first knuckle. Doesn't drive (anything) any more - can't grip the wheel with enough confidence. Nor is he employed - he is undergoing training in a new field - but four years of college in aviation engineering and his "dream ride" (a USCG helicopter) are gone forever.

 

you are VERY right AJ it IS a personal decision. You CAN sacrifice any part of your body you are willing to get your thrill. Just hope that in twenty years any hindsight you have garnered along the way will still make YOU happy. I know one guy who feels stupider and lower than anything he can describe. He won't even go out to dinner - doesn't want to "entertain" the gawkers that watch him try to hold a fork (he ends up using his two fingered hand and skips the fork). All for not wanting the "hassle" of gloves.

[PAPA]

Safety equipment should be more important than any other part of your race car (truck). Its better to have to much protection than not enough. You just never know what will happen. There is more to it than whats good for YOU. You have to think about your family as well. You wont be the only person dealing with what ever happens. Most things that happen arent "short term"....its for life and your family has to deal with it as well. Just try to teach your child to ride a bicycle when you only have one leg or play ball with your grandson when you cant even throw a ball.....it SUX! Buy the damn safety gear!!!!!!!

[supertx]

go look at Steve Millers mod in ark. a few years ago and tell me fire suits don't work AJ what are you thinking .

[Modracer]

go look at Steve Millers mod in ark. a few years ago and tell me fire suits don't work AJ what are you thinking .

 

I was there during this incident and I can tell you from a personal level its the worst feeling in the world not knowing if someone who's your friend is going to be alive or dead!

[rebelracewriter]

I had all but forgotten that this post(not the issues) existed.....

 

I will have to say that I've seen more improvements made since then then I probably did in the 30 years previous.....that's a good thing!!!

[RBSF]

Have fuel cell rollover/flapper valves improved? Have on-board fire systems become more cost effective? Are all tracks providing a high level of emergency response? Are drivers taking a more active role in track safety? Are there any good arguments against participating with the rollover simulator now available? Do new car designs incorporate safe and rapid exits? Do tracks actively tech safety equipment? Do people still believe a single-layer fire suit will protect them? Are fire extinguishers popping up in the pits and around haulers? Irregardless of the potential pain and suffering, do people stop to look at the economics of a great safet program?

What can we do better, is what I'm asking....

[poorboy]

Most people don't consider safety until something happens to them. Even witnessing a disaster doesn't seem to help. I had my drive shaft hit me at the end of last year so my new car has 2 drive shaft loops but I probably wouldn't have done that if I didn't get injured.

[racer61]

Mark pointed out earlier about fire bottles. I agree 100% that a system should be in each car, However I have to diagree with placement. Its my job to test and inspect suppression systems, and let me tell you, that s$%^ aint no joke! I see guys handling it like its just a toy. That stuff is more deadly than the fire can be. I have NEVER agreed with having a nozzle in the drivers compartment. For example, a latemodel has a wreck and rolls over on fire. The driver is expected to pull the release. Well now he has flooded the whole compartment with a thick fog of oxygen eating gas, he cant see, cant breath, and is beginning to panic cus he (or she) is disoriented. How long will it take safety crews to extract driver, who by that time is suffocating, and in a panic. I understand that the system is designed to protect the driver, but in my line of work I have to plan on worse case scenarios to prevent them from happening. All, and I mean ALL fires on racecars are started under the hood, or in the trunk. If cars are built to the safety specs, a fire has almost 0 chance of spreading to the drivers compartment before they can get out. Safety devices such as full containment seats and head and neck restraints have dramatically reduced the time required to exit a vehicle, so in my opinion, requiring yet another device to further hamper there egress is not in the best interest of safety. Again this is just my opinion. Im not expecting a rule change. Just wanting to make my case.

[lilbill]

I have always lived by " It's better to have it and not need it, then need it and not have it." I remeber when I started racing that all you needed was any helment, single layer firesuit. Gloves and shoes were not required. Because I lived by what I said it saved my life in a economy late model at Boyd raceway. The steel braided oil line came off the back of the block by the distributer hitting the bottom of the hood spraying oil all over the top of the 180% headers and to the back of the car. One split second it was smoke, then a fireball. I had gloves on (which were burnt), full face helment with tear offs (melted too). I had practice getting out of my car with my eyes closed in full gear and strapped in. I hit the kill switch and got the belts off easy went to climb out and had to reach and release steering wheel. I had gotten the car turned to the in field. The car was still rolling when I got out landing on my feet then to my knees trying to get my helment off to breathe. The fireman that got to me couldn't belive I wasnt burnt or hurt when he looked at my face untill he saw the full face helment laying next to me and my gloves. This wasn't even a race, it was just hot laps. When we got the car back to the pits and checked it out, the zip ties in the trunk of the car on the fuel line were melted off. They told me from the stands it was a fireball on wheels.

Because I had the right equipment I'm here today and was able to continue to race that day. We won the heat race and qualified on the front row in the qualifier race.

 

No one ,fans, girlfriends/boyfriends, moms dads wives family friends or track promoters want to have to see someone getting hurt or killed if there was a way or even a chance of preventing it.

I'v heard it was there time and if everything was done to prevent it then maybe so.

 

And Crazyhorse I did have them shorts on..... lol

 

Bill Hamilton #5 truck

[jwmbishop]

All, and I mean ALL fires on racecars are started under the hood, or in the trunk. If cars are built to the safety specs, a fire has almost 0 chance of spreading to the drivers compartment before they can get out.

Hmmm, I (and all 3000+ fans and participant spectators present) musta been halucenating whan Ricks car barrel rolled at the old Irwindale - and the oil sump opened up - effectively wrapping him and the entire DRIVER"S COMPARTMENT in sticky 50 weight oil which then erupted from the header into flames - in the drivers compartment (never even caused the fuel in the carb or cell to light off).

 

My bad.

 

Guess you never been splashed with someone else's hot water after a crash either. If the hot water can splash after a wreck - oh wait - thats right - if it WERE fuel from a ruptured cell it would harmlessly evaporate before it sprayed on ya.

 

Again my bad.

 

Carry on.

[jwmbishop]

I don't need to waste my money on gloves anyway. I have mor important things on MY racing budget.

 

pass me another beer bro.

[racer61]

All, and I mean ALL fires on racecars are started under the hood, or in the trunk. If cars are built to the safety specs, a fire has almost 0 chance of spreading to the drivers compartment before they can get out.

Hmmm, I (and all 3000+ fans and participant spectators present) musta been halucenating whan Ricks car barrel rolled at the old Irwindale - and the oil sump opened up - effectively wrapping him and the entire DRIVER"S COMPARTMENT in sticky 50 weight oil which then erupted from the header into flames - in the drivers compartment (never even caused the fuel in the carb or cell to light off).

 

My bad.

 

Guess you never been splashed with someone else's hot water after a crash either. If the hot water can splash after a wreck - oh wait - thats right - if it WERE fuel from a ruptured cell it would harmlessly evaporate before it sprayed on ya.

 

Again my bad.

 

Carry on.

And what did I say? I said "are started"! Do you mount your oil tank in the drivers compartment, how bout your fuel cell, battery?

 

edited so that Im not arguing.