Safety issue #1

[rebelracewriter]

Over the coming off-season I’m going to be posting some issues that I find potentially dangerous and open it up for discussion. Am I an expert? Certainly not, but hope to be better educated by the time the 2008 racing season begins. I will also try to get info directly from those that are experts, chassis builders, etc. and pass it along as well.

 

Now, to preface this, I have no specific knowledge of the why’s and how comes regarding the events the past weekend. I would hope that once the details are determined that someone(like IMCA) would give us a cause to help us better understand, what to look for, what to change and make short track racing safer. These are just general overall observations that I see every weekend at track all over the state.

 

Batteries/placement; After looking at three different type modified chassis’(though this isn’t meant for them specific) and talking to one builder, I find that it is the norm for batteries to placed directly next to the fuel cells. HUH!? Now before you all jump up in unison and yell “rear percentage”……….ummmmm……..isn’t that what ballast is for? I had one driver tell me that having that much rear percentage wasn’t really necessary, nor was the battery that big of a difference.

 

Having a battery in between the fuel cell and rear bumper is, to me, a recipe for disaster. The placement beside the fuel cell, again to me, isn’t much safer.

 

Yes, I understand it’s convenient when charging is needed too.

 

Why would you want a potential point of ignition so damn close to a highly volatile fuel? Yes it may be RARE for a battery to short, but what if……. You also have metal quarter panels, straps for them, roll bars, frame that could all get against the positive terminal and cause a short….add any leaked fuel, even from overflow lines, overfilling slops and then what do you have?

 

Possible solutions; contain the battery in a plastic/marine-type box to eliminate the possibility of shorting off any metal.

Relocation of the battery. I may be incorrect, but isn’t the IMCA rule “inside the frame?” That leaves quite a bit of space open. There are devices available for external charging ports/posts that could be placed outside on the car far enough away from the fuel cell.

[HiTech]

outside of where i use to have the fuel pump which will now be put up front ..our battery is located on the right front frame rail ..yep it sounds dump to put it there but it worked out great for our wieght ...and its close to the motor .which also keeps me from running that heavy 8 foot long cables ..so it evened out ..and a lot less work on the starter and battery when that motor is hot starting ..plus with tps rules . for this car .i had to add 100 plus pounds to the right side of the car . now the other two cars which run manual pumps .the fuel cell and batterys are in different locations and protected from each other ..so next year there will not be anything electrical even close to the fuel tank ......... each battery is atliest three feet apart .....from the tanks ..

[Guest HUFF MOTORSPORTS]

HELLO REB,

 

MYSELF, HUSBAND & BROTHER ALL RACE THE SAME CLASS (PRO STOCK) AT HMP

IN HOUSTON.

SORRY TO HEAR ABOUT THE ACCIDENT THIS IS SAD. I AM GLAD YOU HAVE BROUGHT

THIS TO OUR ATTENTION.

WE ALL BUILD OUR CARS WITH SAFETY IN MIND, NOTHING EVER HAPPENS SO WE ALL

TEND TO GET IN THAT COMFORT ZONE UNTIL SOMETHING LIKES THIS HAPPENS.

WE ALL RACE 80 MODELS MONTE CARLO'S BATTERIES MOUNTED IN TRUNK WITH FUEL

CELL. THIS WILL BE ALL CHANGING NOW, WE HAD THEM IN TRUNK BECAUSE IF WE

ROLLED WE DID NOT WANT BATTERY ACID ON US. WE HAVE CHANGE TO A GEL BATTERY

SO I THINK THAT IS FOR THE BETTER.

ALSO I HAVE BEEN ON THE INTERNET FOR THREE DAYS NOW TRYING TO CONTACT JAZ,

RCI AND OTHERS ON THESE D-RING FUEL CAPS LEAKING. WE REPLACE CAPS WITN NEW

ONES AND BACK TO THE SAME OLE PROBLEM AGAIN.

WE ARE CHECKING ON GETTING THE AIRCRAFT LOCK TYPE CAP AND ARE CHECKING ON

OTHER TYPES OF FUEL CELLS ALSO.

IF YOU CAN HELP IN THIS MATTER PLEASE LET US KNOW.

 

THANKS,

JANETTE HUFF

[orez28]

Thanks alot Reb, all you can do is give everyone information and hope they listen. I know i sure will, with short track being fast is all fun and good, but making it home in one piece is what matters most.

[Nathan]

The battery on my modified mounts behind me about a foot (with sheet metal between) and about 2 feet in front of the rear end (on the left side). It is secured with a bar across the front and two diagonal screws to the bottom it also sits into the mount with a front lower guard to help hold it. It makes it harder to change batteries but this way it should fall to the ground not anywhere near the fuel cell.

[neon14]

HUFF, I have a brand new fuel cell with a d-ring cap on it. I tried as hard as I could with my bare hands and I could not get it to locked in. Had to use a small cheater pipe to get it fully locked in place. I also am going to look for something better. Sorry Reb for changing the subject, but if it makes you feel any better I am moving my battery away from the fuel cell.

[Guest HUFF MOTORSPORTS]

NEON14,

 

SO FAR AS I CAN TELL THE CAPS ARE LOCKING DOWN. WE FOUND A RUBBER GASKET

AND PUT IN MR. HUFF'S LID AND IT QUIT LEAKING. BUT THE CAPS WITH THE CORK

TYPE GASKET IS THE ONES WE HAVE TROUBLE WITH.

I DO KNOW THAT JAZ OFFERS THE AIRCRAFT STYLE CAP WITH LOCK FOR THE

12 AND 6 BOLT FUEL CELLS. HAVE NOT FOUND ANY FOR THE OBLONG TYPE.

ALSO BEEN LOOKING AT FUEL CELLS AND CAPS AT www.atlfuelcells.com

THERE ARE PLENTY OF CELLS TO LOOK AT FOR THE MOST PART THEY ARE

ALL THE SAME, BUT I AM STILL SEARCHING.

 

THANKS,

JANETTE HUFF

[Bandit]

Damn, people actually mount the battery next the fuel cell! Heck, might as well race with a tee shirt and ball cap, your going to die anyway. You would think the santioning body and track would watch this.

[rebelracewriter]

Here's an idea one of my friends is considering.

 

http://www.jazproducts.com/storage_containers.html

[landlord]

NEON14,

 

SO FAR AS I CAN TELL THE CAPS ARE LOCKING DOWN. WE FOUND A RUBBER GASKET

AND PUT IN MR. HUFF'S LID AND IT QUIT LEAKING. BUT THE CAPS WITH THE CORK

TYPE GASKET IS THE ONES WE HAVE TROUBLE WITH.

I DO KNOW THAT JAZ OFFERS THE AIRCRAFT STYLE CAP WITH LOCK FOR THE

12 AND 6 BOLT FUEL CELLS. HAVE NOT FOUND ANY FOR THE OBLONG TYPE.

ALSO BEEN LOOKING AT FUEL CELLS AND CAPS AT www.atlfuelcells.com

THERE ARE PLENTY OF CELLS TO LOOK AT FOR THE MOST PART THEY ARE

ALL THE SAME, BUT I AM STILL SEARCHING.

 

THANKS,

JANETTE HUFF

Have you looked at the "fuel safe" brand of cells?

[8G RACING FAMILY]

GREAT WRITE UP REB WE NEED TO TAKE UR INFO TO HEART LETS LEARN FROM THIS AS A RACING FAMILY THANKS AGAIN 4 ALL U DO REB

[C_Malin]

Thanks for bringing this topic to up. I will be moving my battery in the off season as it currently sits about a foot from the fuel cell.

[8G RACING FAMILY]

WE HAVE ORDERED A FUEL SAFE WILL BE HERE IN 2 WEEKS ALSO WE WILL HAVE A 5 POUND FIRESYSTEM ON THE CAR BY SAT THEY RUN ABOUT 250 FOR 2.5 POUNDS AND 350.00 FOR 5 POUNDS LETS GET IT TOGETHER NOT ONLY FOR OUR SAFETY BUT ALSO FOR THE PEOPLE THAT HELP GET US OUT

[sprintsrule]

The amount of fuel in the car was discussed in one of the stories I read. I know we will fill the 22 gallon fuel cell completely full under certain circumstances. I believe I will have a weight made so I can carry less fuel but still get the same effect.

[KISS_Racing]

Greg,

 

Where did you order your Fuelsafe from. Building a car in the off season and these are two good points to put forethought into...

 

Thanks,

Mark

[thumper]

The one thing I have not heard is about the fuel itself.The modifieds run 32 gals of methanoal but have less fire events than gas cars.Thats because it takes more to ignite it.The most dangerous fuel is pump gas,lower octaine ignites quicker.I think sport mods run gasoline.If all race cars switched to methanoal there would be less fires.

The gas cap I use is a drag race style,it locks down with a lever.Its harder to remove than install and does not leak.And I only have a 4 gal tank.I used to only have 2 1/2 gals.My tank is fully enclosed in a 22 guage steel can. The battery is also in an enclosed house and secured internally.The boat boxes are the worse Ive ever seen.

I have flipped a modified and landed on the roof.My first thought was fire,watching the methanoal steaming off my headers from the carburator..I can tell you no madder how much you train for this,after a flip your so dis orentated you dont know left from right.I popped my belts and dove out the wrong side and got stuck because the roof collapsed some on the right side.That made me aware of fire ever since.That was in 1992.

Methanoal should be the fuel of choice,many people dont understand it.They think its more dangerous but its really much safer and can be put out with water.Its only invisable in daylite.

[Guest HUFF MOTORSPORTS]

Greg,

 

Where did you order your Fuelsafe from. Building a car in the off season and these are two good points to put forethought into...

 

Thanks,

Mark

 

 

MARK,

 

SOME OF THE SITES I HAVE BEEN ON IS : FUELSAFE.COM & NORTHSTARMOTORSPORTS.COM

I GOT THE BEST INFORMATION FROM NORTHSTAR.

[Budman]

Reb,

I just want you to know ......... "ya done good" ........... with this thread. You're making a difference. Proud of ya man. One of the best threads I've ever seen on here. Let's keep this discussion going!

[HiTech]

Reb,

I just want you to know ......... "ya done good" ........... with this thread. You're making a difference. Proud of ya man. One of the best threads I've ever seen on here. Let's keep this discussion going!

I HOPE THE FAMILY IS READING SOME OF THIS ..I BET THEY WOULD BE PROUD EVENTHOW THEY LOST THIER SON . IT WASNT IN VEIN ..[did i spell that right ] reb keep it up ...

[KISS_Racing]

Thanks Janette, I was talking to Jim yesterday about putting a Firebottle in the New car. Extra fuel safety is another area we need to look into. The chassis is being built by the best, so I know we can trust that.

 

ot, your right.... it's sad and tragic of his lose. i too hope we can learn and improve from this...

 

(on edit:) Be interesting to see where people put their nozzles from the firebottle. In the truck there is one:1) engine compartment facing Dist. & Carb. 2)Driver side interior under dash facing driver. 3) Just above trans cooler facing cooler and fuel cell.

[landlord]

The one thing I have not heard is about the fuel itself.The modifieds run 32 gals of methanoal but have less fire events than gas cars.Thats because it takes more to ignite it.The most dangerous fuel is pump gas,lower octaine ignites quicker.I think sport mods run gasoline.If all race cars switched to methanoal there would be less fires.

The gas cap I use is a drag race style,it locks down with a lever.Its harder to remove than install and does not leak.And I only have a 4 gal tank.I used to only have 2 1/2 gals.My tank is fully enclosed in a 22 guage steel can. The battery is also in an enclosed house and secured internally.The boat boxes are the worse Ive ever seen.

I have flipped a modified and landed on the roof.My first thought was fire,watching the methanoal steaming off my headers from the carburator..I can tell you no madder how much you train for this,after a flip your so dis orentated you dont know left from right.I popped my belts and dove out the wrong side and got stuck because the roof collapsed some on the right side.That made me aware of fire ever since.That was in 1992.

Methanoal should be the fuel of choice,many people dont understand it.They think its more dangerous but its really much safer and can be put out with water.Its only invisable in daylite.

The tech official can also check for illegal additives really easy with methanol!!!!!!

[Budman]

Is there an additive you can put in methanol that MAKES the flame visible in day light without changing any of its other fuel properties?

[ks2290]

I race a chevy malibu and the battery is a gel type that is inclosed in and plastic box with the correct hold down hardware and it is located in the drivers compartment behind the seat about a foot and a half. The fuel cell is a steel tank that we are able to use the stock locking gas cap and we have not had any problems with it leaking fuel or even coming off. I believe that this is a good opition for cars such as mine.

[Guest HUFF MOTORSPORTS]

KS2290

 

OURS IS LIKE THIS ALSO, BUT WE HAVE THE D-RING TYPE CAP WHICH WE HAVE

HAD PLENTY OF TROUBLE WITH THEM LEAKING.

WHAT TYPE CAP IS YOURS ?

WHEN WE WERE RACING DIRT WE DIDN'T SEEM TO HAVE AS BAD OF

A PROBLEM, BUT NOW THAT WE ARE ON ASPHALT AND MUCH FASTER SPEEDS

THE PROBLEM IS THERE.

DON'T HAVE TROUBLE WITH THE CAPS COMING OFF BUT WE ALWAYS MAKE SURE

THE CAPS ARE ON RIGHT.

[ks2290]

The cap that we run is a stock cap that you would find on a street car any one can pick one up at the local parts store.The car that I run has raced on asphalt and dirt with this system and we have never had a problem with leaking at either track.