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What is the Point in Qualifying?

Pacecar

By Pacecar
in Texas Auto Racing

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Rookie49 Newbie

Rookie49

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SARGE,

 

UNLESS THEY HAVE DONE SOME MASSIVE IMPROVEMENTS TO THE SOUND SYSTEM OUT THERE, A LOT OF PEOPLE MAY NOT HAVE HEARD MILTON. I THINK HE HAS DONE A GOOD JOB AS AN ANNOUNCER, BUT I FOR ONE HAVE NEVER HEARD MORE THAN 20% OF WHAT HE SAYS OUT THERE. AND IN THE PAST WHENEVER I HAVE SEEN A 1 ROLLED, I THOUGHT IT WAS A STAND PAT, RUN WHERE YOU QUALIFIED ROLL. I GUESS I SHOULD SHUT UP AND PAY ATTENTION TO YOU ANNOUNCERS BETTER TOO. BY THE WAY PEOPLE AREN'T COMING TO HEAR YOU ANNOUNCE THEY ARE COMING TO WATCH THE RACE. I'M NOT YELLING BY THE WAY, I'M JUST TOO LAZY TO HIT THE CAPS LOCK KEY AND RETYPE THIS.

 

SINCERELY,

 

[edited out by Nick Holt, 10/10/05]

 

Johnny (i was just shinin' you Nick)

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SASPEEDRACER24 Newbie

SASPEEDRACER24

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[edited out by Nick Holt, 10/10/05] You only read what you want to believe and only believe what you want to see... :) Oh BTW next time lets have the crew members draw straws for their drivers so if a driver gets into a wreck he can blame it on his crewmember for drawing the wrong straw... I told Jack after the race that there is a severe lack of respect for our drivers and I even had a driver tell me after the race that it wasnt the invert just a select few driver who have either no paticence and or no respect for the other drivers I will keep him nameless but he was rather disgusted at the end of the night...I dont know how better to change the respect other than to start pulling out the vaunted black flag for rough driving or parking some of the repeat offenders...

 

Marc

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MIKE JONES Newbie

MIKE JONES

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Well at the end of the night MIKE JONES was just happy the drivers were okay. There was some pretty hard hits and some tore up equipment. Everyone walked away and that is the main thing. What happened on saturday is behind us and it doesn't do us any good to hop on a computer an argue right and wrong. Sure hope to see everyone on the 22nd.

Who... Mike Jones!

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ups88john Newbie

ups88john

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i read all of this and get very aggrevated, we have 2 cars in our shop, one is pretty much destroyed and the other needs a rear clip. the full inversion is not at fault, and im skinny. some of the drivers were having a hard time keeping their cars going straight much less going around a corner. i agree that everyone has a right to be out there and to race, but we need to look at the big picture. because of the full inversion TSRS has lost 2 cars for the rest of this year, and probally one for ever. i understand they used to start with a full invert with guys that ran a track all year. some of the cars havent seen a track hardly all year and some had not been to sas all year. Now you want them to start up front with all the faster cars behind them. dosent make sense to me, but of course i have to fix 2 trashed cars and cant race. one of our cars was just riding around in last place and got caught up in someones stupid wreck. the other car was in the middle of it all, but was not the cause of the wreck. anyway, good luck in kyle and ft worth, our cars wont be there and i hope the fans enjoyed the full invert.

 

big john

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fast18 Rookie

fast18

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It's not my fault car 80 and 5 are tore up. It's not my fault any are damaged but as I said in a previous post Skinny..the full invert wasn't what caused either of the big crashes. I watched helplessly as it all unfolded. I'm not going to name names or point fingers...it does no good. I do know it wasn't the full invert but that doesn't matter now because there will be no more full inverts. I'm sure someone will find something else to complain about though...

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Sarge Newbie

Sarge

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BY THE WAY PEOPLE AREN'T COMING TO HEAR YOU ANNOUNCE THEY ARE COMING TO WATCH THE RACE

 

Whaaa!!!!! Surely your joking? ;):P

 

I GUESS I SHOULD SHUT UP AND PAY ATTENTION TO YOU

 

Ya darn well better! :P

 

A LOT OF PEOPLE MAY NOT HAVE HEARD MILTON

 

Ya might have something there, as I know I walked all over both Milton and Terry when they were on the wireless and I was in the booth becuase I couldn't hear them.

 

*****

 

Drivers drive the cars. And at any time, any driver or car owner could have pulled off the track and not ran the inverted field. After all it was a non points race. Ya'll control the cars. To blame it on the invert is nonsensical. What's next, you going to blame the time of day? Day of the week? Full moon? The color of the trophy girls underwear?

 

Drivers caused the wreck. Race car drivers, not race car officials or race proceedures. Some of the drivers wrecked were not at fault, but I promise, it WAS a driver that was to blame. It might not have been intentional, but drivers drive, officials officiate.

 

Bill "Sarge" Masom

Thunder Hill Raceway Race Talker Abouter

The Voice of the San Antonio Diablos

Last Minute TSRS Oktoberfast Announcer

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turbotoddie Newbie

turbotoddie

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Sarge says;

Drivers drive the cars. And at any time, any driver or car owner could have pulled off the track and not ran the inverted field. After all it was a non points race. Ya'll control the cars. To blame it on the invert is nonsensical. What's

 

You are right Sarge but we didn't build these cars to polish and the expenses to be there, practice and qualify have been made before any invert. Unfortunately, to race or not to race Octoberfast(or any other non points show) is a concern. Do you go for the money, the fun, SUPPORT YOUR TRACK or stay home? Risk losing a car? For many of us, we may not have a chance at winning so what do you do? I chose to support my track Fri night and unfortunately I caused a wreck that took out some cars. These guys didn't deserve it but it happened. Last year, I lost a motor during Octoberfast. After a few bad experiences, you have to ask yourself, is it worth it?

 

Terry talked of a race in Feb? From a guy on a limited budget, I would probably not participate in order to have a car ready for the start of the points season.

 

food for thought

 

Todd Farris

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tsrsfan Newbie

tsrsfan

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Sarge, Not anyone person is to blame, but the invert is definatly a catalyst for what happened. If it was not, why have they decided to scrap it? If NASCAR does not do it, there is probably a good reason for it. The rules and procedures are set by the officials. They are partially to blame for this. They have made changes, so they have accepted their responsibility. Move on. The invert was an enabler.

Does anyone know why Umschied was on the tech pad yelling? He was not even racing. If these guys want to protest, they should put up some money instead of tears.

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Kathy Newbie

Kathy

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MAN's Prospective, as Terry Dickerson said to me when he first came into the Central Texas Racing community, "If you can't beat em, copy em" well, as the TSRS Series Owner/Director, I have enjoyed reading his "Promoters Perspective" and so I am going to copy his approach and give you my perspective of this past Saturday night.

 

What a weekend, there is no way to address everyone's concerns and opinions and no way to overcome the objections to what took place on Saturday evening at San Antonio Speedway. There was an incredible crowd of racing fans in attendance. The pit area was a site to be seen. TSRS was chosen to go first in the night of racing, we tested first, we qualified first and we were the first to start the night off with racing action and action we gave! We, TSRS and USRA Series Directors and the SAS Track Officials worked very hard throughout the entire day to work together to assure that we stayed on schedule for the race fans. It was looking great, then unfortunately for the #61 in the qualifying of the USRA Super Late Model Series, there was a major oil spill which made for a very long and hard clean up. TSRS was to grid prior to the scheduled 6:45 opening ceremony, we were well past that time and that was OK, as we say in racing, this schedule is subject to change, by the time we took to the track, the crowd seemed to be getting a little restless, we rushed our introductions by having our cars come onto the track with Drivers buckled in and ready to go race. Then it got real exciting when our pole sitter Brandon Bendele rolled a one in our trademark dice roll causing a complete field inversion! First time in the three years of TSRS! That put Robert Elizondo # 98 on the pole. After battling Hal Collins # 59 around turn one, Elizondo rolled out of turn three with the lead. The first wreck occurred on lap one when David Sevilla # 8 and Brian Moczygemba # 50 touched on the back stretch, sending Moczygemba hard into the turn three wall with a cut tire and bringing out the first of three red flags. That called for a total restart, as Elizondo brought the field around for the restart the field quickly spread out and it looked like the Drivers were going to settle in for a long run. But then on lap three, Beau Bukowski # 00 and Henry Guerra # 55 got together coming out of turn four starting a chain reaction that collected Brandon Bendele in the David White # 6, Lloyd Alexander # 5, Mike Balzer # 77, Brian Schild # 11, Ronny New # 1, and David Sevilla # 8, this bringing out the second red flag of the race. This second delay caused me to cut the race to 53 laps, there were 3 laps that were counted as complete and then looking to run 50 additional laps, the spotters were informed. My thoughts were, get this cleaned up, cut the laps we still got a lot of racing for these race fans to see. So, once again, we go green, then just two laps later Ryan Engelhardt in the # 53 and Hal Collins # 59 mixed it up and with the trading of some paint between these two cars that which brought out the third and final red flag which was when I announced to the teams that we were going to go off the track and to meet at the Series trailer, I was headed across the track when SAS track announcer Milton asked me to address the fans, my statement was this, “We are going to give these drivers a chance to get their cars back in racing order and bring them back out for a ten lap shoot out. We are going to let the fans see some good racing and give these guys another opportunity. They are all driving with their hearts and wanting to win. Thank God that no one has been hurt. These are some incredible Drivers and you have just seen Talladega right here at San Antonio Speedway. This can happen on any race track and with any series; unfortunately it was the Texas Super Racing Series. I still think those are some of the finest Drivers out there and I know they will show you a great ten lap shoot out.” And from there, we were headed to the Series trailer, bringing in our Officials followed later by the Drivers. There were only a handful of the original 17 starters able to continue. It was a hard Saturday night for the Series, as well as for the race teams. We as Officials spent a lot of time going over and over that catastrophe that took place from the competition between 53 and the 59. This is how we all finally came to agree and to make the final decision, we saw the 59 leading the pack, we saw the 53 at times with both tires below the white line, coming up into the 59, had he spun, we would have gone yellow and the 53 would have been sent to the back, although he held on and he fought back, at times very aggressively, I had already came across the radio to the spotter of the 53 car & then to the spotter of 59, at that time the incident took place, had it not caused the end result of the race, I would have sent 53 and the 59 to the back, with the 53 behind the 59. Being that the end result was so horrible for many, we decided to call the race, we went back to the last completed green flag lap, which was with 11 cars from the original 17, we put the 53 to the rear of the 11 remaining cars, the 59 to the rear in front of the 53 and called the finishing of that race. We then brought all drivers to the Series trailer talked about what had taken place and took a count of who could compete in a 10 lap Shootout, there were 8, they drew for starting positions and all went to work on their cars, they each had to go through safety tech again and to had to reweigh. An additional purse of 1200.00 was put up for those 10 laps and the purse was paid for the original race. None of what took place was easy calls for anyone, is it going to please everyone, certainly not, and it may please no one. I think this series has some of the finest Officials around, no one in the series makes or gives their input based on anything personal, we, TSRS have to put this event behind us, pick our heads back up and move on, I hope those involved can do the same thing. Some of you reading this may not agree and I can appreciate that. I hope those involved will take some responsibility, as well. I cannot open it up for discussion, at least discussion with the possibility to change our final ruling on this race event. We must move on and hopefully all will learn something from such a mess of what could have been an incredible event. I have made the decision to do away with the total possibility to roll an entire inversion. We will roll one dice and the 1 will be a heads up. Do I think this is what caused this mess? No! We are looking at some other options for next season to keep it exciting, as the race fans were pretty excited when Brandon rolled a one, we could have been the heroes as well as a zero. None of the Officials can take the blame for how the race turned out, at least with the driving, none of us had our hands on a wheel. Will this event and decisions that were made change or have an impact on the series? Absolutely, it was a no win situation and I am certain there will be consequences to come, but I feel we did the best with what we had to work with.

 

Now, that 10 lap Shootout was one to be seen, although there was an incident between the 53 and the 97, after gathering input, I was about to send the 97 to the rear when the flagman was showing the Drivers one to go, I felt the safe thing to do was go green and penalize the 97 one position. There is not a lot of time to make decisions as there is not a lot of time for Drivers to make decisions, we make them, commit to them and we must move on. And that's my perspective.

 

Thank you all and hope to see you each at the Texas Stock Car Spectacular on October 22nd @ Thunder Hill Raceway and November 19th @ Texas Motor Speedway, with the exciting road course. The Race results are below.

 

Sincerely,

Mary Ann Naumann

TEXAS SUPER RACING SERIES - The Late Models!

 

It was a tough night guys. Things happened. If you want to blame it on the invert, so be it. But, each driver knew that, there was a chance that could happen. This is just the first time it did. Mary Ann stated that they would not do that anymore. I have had the pleasure to sit in and help out with a few of her races this year and I have to say that they do a very fine professional job. I was there sitting in on the meetings with them this weekend. And they took the time to carefully listen to each driver that had something to say. Most of the drivers were very professional back. Some just need to grow up. Yes, I know it is very exspensive to run this series or any for that matter now days. Until there is some respect between the drivers and little patience this will continue to happen. When I was walking into the pits Saturday afternoon I could hear Terry Dickerson talking on the PA telling drivers not to try and win it on the 1st lap. Some did not listen.

At THR each week we have the faster guys (high point average) start in the back. We don't usually see this sort of thing happen simply because I think our drivers have a respect going on between them and they have learned patience. Even the Hobby guys seemed to have learned. And we had a rough time with them for a while. But they seemed to have settled down. And the last few races had been real good racing. I know some of you will not like what I have said and that is ok.

 

It was a tough call on Mary Ann's part and I truely believe that she made the best decision she could with what she was handed.

 

Good Luck to all of you that come to race on the 22nd. I hope you can all get your cars back together. And I hope you remember that there is no chance for a total invert anymore and don't try and win it on the first lap.

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4lugnutz Newbie

4lugnutz

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was not there, but sounds like some of the drivers can't or won't drive past the hood of his or her car. sure some will say the invert was the problem i think the problem is between the steering wheel and gas pedal. in all racing series & classes the one in charge needs to be in control of the drivers and do whatever it takes to throttle any aggressive driving back. i have seen so many different series ect where a certain few think they are gods gift to driving. they will win at any cost ~ they tend to want to drive thru someone rather than around, or better yet the same driver god wanna be's can't even control there own car (can't even get out of there own way) but hey what do i know i'm just a crazy racing fan of the sport

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Pacecar Newbie

Pacecar

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Perhaps inverts have a better chance of success in a weekly series at a particular track. In that situation, the racers have lots of recent experience at running beyond the racing groove and learning how their car reacts to passing situations, oddball lines, and poorer traction.

 

Traveling series racers don't necessarily have lots of experience at certain tracks. During race day practice sessions, they concentrate on getting their car to handle in the racing groove and be fast. They rarely experiment with trying the outside lane, or left side tires on the apron, etc. (exception being Eddy Wallace at the last race in Houston.... practicing that turn #1 pass with the lefts on the apron!).

 

I'm glad to learn that TSRS has revised their procedures and will eliminate complete inversions. Thank you.

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