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What is the Point in Qualifying?


Pacecar

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It makes no sense to conduct qualifying time-trials and then "reward" those efforts by inverting the whole field.

 

But some fans come to see the "big one" such as the spectacular wrecks in Talledega. Inverting the field provides a high probability for designing the "big one".

 

When your racing success depends more on the luck of the draw than skill and hard work, then it becomes a form of gambling. But racers are so addicted to their sport that they are willing to risk all, no matter the cost. At least until they can't anymore.....

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probably the tsrs that started 16 and by lap 5 Mary ann had to call them off the track to let them all (most of them 10 or so had some pretty good damage) make repairs just so they could have a 10 lap shoot out.

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elliot sadler said it best last week "the car has three pedals in it-the center one is the brake....." even if you qualified one second faster than the car 5 rows in front of you what says you have to run him over instead of pasing him? you can't blame it on an invert, yep,it sucks for some , but that's luck and luck makes up 50% of this sport .........and talent should fall in there somewhere, but the same talent that got those cars one quick lap sure wasn't there when they actually had to race through traffic...the invert did'nt wreck those cars, lack of experience in those situations did....

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Guest bigfat

I liked the "sort of an invert" idea they used for the Sportsman race on Friday. Where the top 5 or 6 in qualifying draw for starting positions. That seemed to be just about right. There were still alot of wrecks. None of which were caused by the slower cars. If I remember correctly. If they would have inverted the entire field such as they did in the TSRS race they'd still be under caution. Inverting or drawing for starting positions for the top 25% seems to be a pretty good idea. If they would have done that with the TSRS race it may have been a better night for all. That would have inverted the top 4. How many laps were they going to race originally? If it was only lap 5 when the "big one" happened did someone just get a little impatieint or was it one of the slower cars that caused the wreck?

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Inverting the field is a recipie (a method for attaining a desired end) and it doesnt take a genius to figure out what going to come out of the oven. The wrecks that happened are not uncommon for cars that qualified in the back of the field, they usually take themselves out or maybe one other out but then again when you put these cars in the front of the field they dont only take themselves out but a lot more cars that are behind them. Think of the logic of only inverting the top six, why and why not. I can tell you one thing the top six are up there because of skill and hard work and know how, these are the guys that can race with a extremely low percentage of wrecking, inverting the whole field puts the guys that may only have the hard work part and lacking the skill and know how. PACECAR has it right

 

But racers are so addicted to their sport that they are willing to risk all, no matter the cost. At least until they can't anymore                                                                

OK now here is the big deal I would like to think that there can be a race where inverting the whole field can be exciting with no wrecks but remember the stock car racing world is what we the drivers and officials make of it and MAYBE we might learn from it and not do these things again. I'm not talking about driving I'm talking about the building, designing and race lineup construction for the TSRS................... RECIPE

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all the TSRS drivers know going into the race that there is a chance that the whole field may get inverted. so i dont think you can say inverting the field was stupid, however driving the first five laps like they were the last five is stupid. i just hope that all cars involved will be able to get back to the track someday.

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When I first started racing at SAS in the mid 80s' they inverted the entire field by point standing some nights there were as many as 30 cars for a 25 lap feature,Pacecar should remember those days,the speeds were slower than today and there were wrecks and some nights were worse than others but it was all part of racing. Inverting the field can be done if the drivers cooperate with each other and relize that we are not racing on unlimited budgets.there were a lot of equipment destroyed last night and I am sure the none of it was intentional

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It's all about driver cooperation and respecting each other. You can't win a race in the first five laps. I've seen the SAS late-models, USRA, SE Elite series, other big super late model events, race each other very clean. Several times a driver backs off when the other cuts him off and saves a big wreck from happening, especially when you have 75 laps to go. These guys were already in some type of ten lap shoot out, that we weren't of aware of. You can say that racing is racing, but some drivers can prevent wrecks if they race smart. I think the people who go for the wrecks got a good show last night.

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I don't think that inverting the field was the problem, they seemed to not respect each other, the officials, or the sanctioning body. They all were driving like the could win on the first lap. Terry Dickerson says it every Saturday, you can't win on the first lap. Don't race like that. If they would have settled down and not drove unsportsman like, they would have had a great race. The TSRS drivers(or some of them) are very aggressive and don't care who gets in their way. They will run you over instead of passing you. That was very sad to see all of those nice cars destoyed. Some were there with brand new cars. And left with junk. The sanctioning body has to change the drivers way of thinking. I was glad to see Joe win the race. Other than the TSRS race, the rest of the night was some good racing. :blink:

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I missed the shootout but to try to compare THR does in weekly races to a TSRS race @ SAS is "ludacrisp".

The majority of these races have been smash ups no matter how you invert @ SAS.

I applaud Mary and H for the formation of the TSRS and giving these guys a series to run in but what was accomplished by this race?

Trust me, not a shot @ the series but what gives here?

Hopefully the next event goes smoother.

How did the crowd (paying fans) react to this?

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How did the crowd (paying fans) react to this?

 

thats what i was thinking.......how do you expect the fans to come and support the series and tracks as a professional racing experience only to put on a demolition derby with pretty cars........im sure a few of the fans wont return only because they probably feel that will be all they see when they do...............

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THR goes by point averages. They don't qualify and then invert the field.

My mistake. I thought THR still started the high points drivers at the rear. I should have checked with someone at THR before I posted.

 

Sorry.

 

Nick Holt

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all i can say is tsrs normal lap leaders must not be able to pass cars with out a move over flag to help them. brandon said it best. no give and take it is a shame. for the fan that came to see wrecks they did not disapoint!!!!

you said it...and so did nick ...local classes do that every sat. night.....so how is the invert the problem???????

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Nick-

THR hasn't changed as far as I know. They go by average finish, and put the drivers with high average finishes at the back. Termite had to come from the back every week, along with Bobby Teer, Jr., Robert Stewart, Doug Ayers, Duane Toyne and company. It did make for some exciting racing, as well as a lot of respect for the way Cary (among others) comes all the way up through the field, usually without touching anybody.

Maybe some of the drivers in the touring classes could spend a little time watching to see how they do it. Sure, the late models are faster, but the Street Stock competition is just as tight.

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Unfortunately many good drivers got caught up in something they didn't cause and couldn't avoid. The inversion was not the problem. There are a few drivers who need to rethink their driving style so this doesn't happen again. I'm embarrassed but I wasn't driving one of the cars nor was any of the other officials. I do know that the majority of our drivers are very good drivers who do have respect for each other. TSRS is a very good series and will continue to be. I have seen the same thing happen with the other series. I now know how their officials felt. Mickey McKim TSRS Official

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You might need to change my name to "to el cuchara grande" (the big spoon}. But here it is:

 

I believe Mary Ann and her crew definitely are very organized and try very hard to put on a good show.

 

Unforntunately maybe the rules maybe are giving some too much advantage monetarily but giving others too much hope that they can run with minimal outlay.

 

Maybe the stock clip deal is making people think they can run with their reskinned street stocks but when they get in they find that they need a superlatemodel with a stock clip, once they make this outlay of cash they feel like they should win because they spent this much money and end up trying to recoup their investment in a few laps.

 

Listening to a couple of teams talk how much they have in their motor makes me think maybe their is to much latitude in rules and teching and the acceptance of the parts that everyone so called" everyone already has".

 

I am trying to understand why you need 450-470hp on 8" tires, these guys are over running every corner and because they can't get traction once they get under someone they just drive threw them, no give and take.

 

I personally think, like I have said before that their is a place for a lower cost late model type car but this isn't it.

 

I think every series or tracks have their nights when there is a crash fast. But TSRS consisently has a crash fest. What is the common denominator?

 

Lets think about this, why has inversion always been a instituion in Texas racing? Trying to put on a good show is usually the answer. I think not. I believe it is flat laziness in rules making and officiating. Taking what you get in cars and making the best of it by allowing cars that are 1sec or more to run against those that are faster is asking for trouble. set of rules and know why they are writing them then their would be If someone would write a someone great racing here in texas unfortunately to much monkey see monkey do.

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RESPECT keeps coming up... And i believe rightfully so...

 

For once i was a spectator *(fly on the wall) first time in years... I was sitting as far into turn 4 as you can and had a front row seat for the TSRS Big one.. and Big Two..

 

Cold tires, a lot of kitty litter used, were certainly contributor's to the wrecks..

 

Respect needs to be given not only to your competitor but the conditions... the track conditions weren't the same as practice.. SAS has walls and if you don't respect them.. they will jump up and say hi quickly..

 

I think Mary Ann did the right thing.. although the truck teams were a little off guard.. there was however a lot of people saying a lot of bad things about their first experiece at SAS.. and for that i am scared...

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