racing Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 I'm not trying to down Hudak, all I'm saying is that it would be helpful to other tracks if they could do that for other races. I've been around racing for many years..this is just what i've gotten from going to the meetings for the TSRS series. By going to the meetings I've noticed that the only track they do sponsorships for is Houston. By the way..my name is Rick...if you have a problem with me then private message me. I'm not trying to bash anybody i'm just stating what i've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hray Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 There's a lot of retro-amnesia going around on this thread. First of all, where did the TSRS cars come from? When SAS decided they were not running Super Street Stk, Mary Ann specifically designed the rules to pick up those cars as well as THR LLM virtually assuring success of the series in the 1st year. I specifically remember people who attended the "pre-season planning meetings" requesting a car that would be between LLM and ROMCO (105" WB, 10" tires, QC, etc). The only change TSRS made was to allow a QC. That gave the series instant car count - the only negative consequence was it took away THR cars too. I really don't think it brought in any "new" cars (add the 10 or so that were running SAS to the 15 or so that were running THR and thats about what you have in TSRS). Second, the TSRS races really have been a demo derby and fans don't like that. At the last THR race, when TSRS raced last, the fans stayed for ROMCO and about 20 yellow flag TSRS laps and then the stands cleared out. Don't think that goes unnoticed by track promoters. And what about the famous HMP meeting. All the fans and promoter saw was a really crapy race. Third, HMP requires touring series to pay their own purse, when TSRS runs with ROMCO, the tracks are leased, but when they run by themselves the track shares payment of the purse. The stands were full of fans when ROMCO was there, but were virtually empty when TSRS raced by themselves. Forth, it is my understanding that not only is THR not going to race TSRS, but neither is SAS or CCS. In fact, SAS is going to allow the TSRS type cars to run 10" tires and run with LMS cars. Both types will be allowed to run 4412 carbs next year, so the only TSRS races at SAS will be the 2 ROMCO events. That means all but 2 races TSRS will have to have sponsors for the purse. Fifth, THR and SAS are suffering low car counts and as businesses have to do something about it or suffer financially. When I add this up, it looks like Brian holds the trump card. Sixth, when ROMCO or TAMS come to a track, they offer something the fans can't see with their weekly series, but, in the eyes of the fans, TSRS is just like what they see every week - just more of them. I think if I were Brian and Mike I'd make the same decision, except I'd get together on a Fri/Sat schedule with the same rules at both tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latemodel4 Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Very well said hray. i think that all racing is saying is that it seems like there is a specific reason that THR is not having TSRS run there. If it comes down to it being a financial reason then they (TSRS) should try to get sponsors to HELP the local tracks. As for TOMMY42 I really dont think that you understood what racing was saying, so I think you might need to get your facts together before you decide to get upset at someone. But thats just my 2 cents worth. Krissy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racing Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 well said Latemodel4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRANK-E Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Racing, I second that notion. I have been to three of the TSRS races and was not impressed at any of them, in fact I have a TSRS car in the garage that we were considering racing. Changed our minds and put a for sale sign on it instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slash Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Crank-e, If you where not impressed with TSRS then why did you not go and race with the late models at THR???? Andrew aka. Slash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGural Posted November 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Crake-E, Since TSRS won't be at THR next year, why aren't you planning to run your car at their weekly shows? (Or any local track, for that matter) Your comments seem to imply that you have no where else to run your car, since your so disappointed with the TSRS shows. To remind those who may have forgotten...THR had many, (too many to count) nights in the past, when the late models were still lined up to start the race after midnight. Agree with your comments that yellows/cautions are a problem, but I know that's not a problem exclusive to TSRS. THR and ROMCO used to have a horrible time with them too. In my opinion, those kinds of issues can be resolved, without banning a series from a track. The trailer park did more to help fix that at THR, if my memory serves well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRANK-E Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 We ran sas late model instead. Was thinking about pulling engine from nascar late model and putting it in the TSRS car and racing with them but didn't look like it was worth the effort or the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasman Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 hray, Well said. In order to help the tracks survive, they need a weekly Late Model type of race. I dont think the tracks would loose many fans if there were no touring LM series, but they could gain with an increase in weekly LM car counts. I think the only ones who would complain would be the ones involved in the touring series. But they do have options, they can race SAS, TH or move up to ROMCO. The tracks have no choice, but to do what they have to do to get the weekly car counts up, or there will be no tracks for weekly or touring series. If you cant find what you are looking for in the choices available here, maybe another hobby would be best. If there were another 30 LM type cars in the state, then perhaps there would be enough product to go around. I am not choosing sides, I just wished there were enough cars and fans to make everyone happy. And then, we could get a touring bicycle series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tqj3 Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Guys- It's my understanding that THR's decision came down to either dropping the late models altogether, or supporting the local late models and trying to build the class back up. As hray just said, there aren't enough cars to go around right now. Maybe if you can run a late model locally, that can help build the number of cars, particularly if we do some real promotion of drivers and cars not only in late models, but in street stocks and in the rest of the classes. There are also some welcome changes coming to the track, so keep watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkr77 Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 I'm not trying to down Hudak, all I'm saying is that it would be helpful to other tracks if they could do that for other races. Why should TSRS try to help THR get sponsors if we can't even run at the track? If that was the main reason for doing this, then I think that THR shouldv'e said something to TSRS instead of what they did... Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkr77 Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Yall keep saying you have been to two or three races... You haven't been to all of them. Yes, TSRS has had a few races where there were alot of cautions but TSRS has also had some awesome green flag races as well. The thrid race of the season there was a last lap pass for the lead at SAS. The last race of the season there was almost another. Yall forget that TSRS is a new series. The first ROMCO race at THR had alot of cautions, and the first season they there were alot of cautions. Look at ROMCO today, it is one of the most competetive racing series, and entertaining as well. There are always going to be cautions. We raced at THR this year in the lm class, and there were good races there as well, but if THR actually had races that were as long as TSRS & ROMCO (100 laps instead of 30) I guarantee you there would be cautions as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkr77 Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 We ran sas late model instead. Was thinking about pulling engine from nascar late model and putting it in the TSRS car and racing with them but didn't look like it was worth the effort or the risk. Racing in general is a risk... Let me ask you this...were you involved in any cautions this last season? If so, then tell me why it didn't look like it was worth the effort to race in TSRS. I don't think you should be "bashing" a series that you didn't think was worth the effort to race in. Just my 02 cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racingaroundTX Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 It's my understanding that THR's decision came down to either dropping the late models altogether, or supporting the local late models and trying to build the class back up. I am new to this website, but not new to racing. Can you tell me why you think dropping this LLM series will benefit the track in Kyle? Looks to me that the opportunity for those cars was already there all of last season and only a few choose to race every Saturday at THR. Now, that would tell me something. Would this decision it be a way to pressure drivers to race at their track? Maybe these drivers that choose the TSRS traveling series preferred running less and being able to go to the different race tracks and not race every week. Sure seems to be a hot topic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slash Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Well Said Wrk 77. Just as in starting any new series. Not only does it take time for the Officials to iron the wrinkles, it also takes time for the drivers to get used to racing with each other. TSRS had a mix of drivers form all the locations that never raced togehter. Just Remember most of those drivers came from the tracks in question. Just as much it is the responsibility of the officals to put on a good show.....it also takes the drivers to do the same. The whole point about this subject is those that Choose to run TSRS are just sad to see that THR opted not to host the series at their track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRANK-E Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Not bashing just stating an opinion. [Commnet edited out by Nick Holt, 11/7/03] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh42 Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 How about this idea. It could benefit both parties. If Brian and Mary Ann sat down and came up with a points system that if you ran THR and TSRS you could be eleigble for a year end bonus in your points check for running THR and TSRS. You would have to run like 75% of the races but that way Brian could get his count up and Mary Ann could keep running at Kyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ups88john Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 [Comment edited out by Nick Holt, 11/7/03] honestly i think there is more risk running at sas with their late models, i mean the same 2 or 3 guys crash every week. i would rather sit and watch a tsrs than sit and watch a local show at sas. racing is a risk, weather it be at sas, thr, tsrs, romco any where you go. take the blinders off for a minute and look at the whole picture big john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVCMNGR1 Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 "Can't we all just get along?". Rodney King while Los Angeles burned. LOL This is getting us nowhere fast. Here's the deal. We're not wanted there? Fine, we get the message. But we will also remember how this went down. You don't like TSRS races? Don't show up! Don't need you and don't want you. We may have to travel a little further or race more often at less tracks but TSRS will survive because it's a fun, highly competitive, growing series. Now take your ball and GO HOME. Big John, I've got some words for you too Bubba! LOL See ya at the banquet everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkr77 Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Well said Big John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slash Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Big John, Are you bringing the beer to the Banquet? Or just going to suck it all down? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mary Ann Naumann Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Well, here we are day three... got a moment? I love the Texas Speed Zone, but I think as every track owner, promoter, general manager or series owner/director might agree – it is a lot easier to sit in the stands or stand in the pits and observe and have an opinion of what everyone else is doing and how wrong it is. What I do not agree with is that the anonymous “authors” can post something that affects so many race track/series business decisions and feelings - anonymously. It's just a shame that some of the postings would never be posted if those people had to reveal who they are. But, as many say on this wonderful web site, “that is just my two cents worth on that issue.” As Brian, Mike and other people affiliated with tracks and series read the comments and venting that goes on, there is no way that it does not effect each of us in some way or another. If each of us spent the time it would take to answer and respond to all of the postings, we would not have time to promote racing at all! I would like to explain a few of what I feel to be misconceptions of what TSRS was created for and about. I would first like to say, this, I met with Jim Lynch, one of the owners of THR on Monday to discuss the 2004 season opportunities. On Wednesday, he called me personally and told me that the THR staff had decided at its Tuesday meeting to not book TSRS, and that he wanted to be the one to tell me. I would like everyone to understand, it was with respect and he was very diplomatic. I appreciated and respected his feelings on being the one to tell me first. As most of you may be aware, I was the General Manager of THR for nearly three years, working with Brian & a little with Jim. After I got married, I “retired” from my race promoting involvement. After one year of retirement, I was missing what I love to do – promote local racing. It was while I was attending a race at HMS at a ROMCO race, late in 2002, I learned from Arthur Alexander that SAS was not going to continue to run their class of cars next season. THR was down on its LLM car count as well. So, I thought that I could help promote racing on the local level and helping local tracks with its car count by promoting and starting a new series by bringing these cars all together. After talking with several of the Houston guys - whom, I understood were not planning on racing at THR due to the improvements and new management of HMS. They said it would be cheaper to stay in their back yards and run for trophies instead of traveling. I talked with H & several good friends that were involved in racing, so I decided to make a trip to San Antonio and started asking questions about the possibility of putting together this new touring series for LLM – since, after all, SAS had already done away with this class for the upcoming season. I went and discussed this idea with THR’s Brian Callaway out of respect of our past working relationship and friendship. The response to this idea was incredible from the San Antonio, Houston & Austin areas. Thus came the Texas Super Racing Series! Keep in mind, these cars come from all over Texas, not one area – we have drivers from Austin, San Antonio, Houston, the Ft. Worth-Dallas area, San Angelo and Corpus, among others. All of these driver created a car count that I never thought possible in our first year of the series! The purpose of TSRS has been to keep racing simple and affordable by designing rules that are fair to all racers and keeping costs under control. We looked to make our rules the same as THR rules, with the blessings of THR, may I add, allowing drivers the opportunity to race every Saturday night if that is what they chose to do! As Chuck Licata stated on The Motorsports Zone last Sunday, “none of the 60 drivers who started a TSRS race this year had a gun held to their head, nor were they forced to do anything they didn't want to do. They were just given another option – another series –to race in, and it's not TSRS’ fault they showed up and supported the series and the tracks in large numbers!” What a true shame for local racing that drivers and car owners have to make a decision on not supporting their local track every Saturday night or every other or to continue to run with a local racing series that shares in the large car count several times through out the season. Can two tracks get together and squeeze TSRS out of the area? Probably, but if that happens, who's to say the two tracks won't then become competitors against each other for the “available” cars that might become available to them? Comments made on several occasions about long yellows, lots of yellows with TSRS. But realize this – I NEVER expected our series to draw the amount of cars we did, so we just weren't prepared for the incredible growth spurt we had! And while we had some major growing pains, I still feel our officials adjusted accordingly and – from the feedback we've received from the drivers since we had some of the best racing in the state, several photo finishes that made a Nationwide magazine, the Late Model Digest! We have so far exceeded our expectations of what TSRS would become and it is due to a lot of good people coming together to put on a show for you, the race fans, with the intentions to only help our local race tracks! Some of you have asked and made statements as to what the tracks spend to have us (TSRS) run at their track, please keep in mind, we brought 30 to 32 cars with an average of 4 to 5 crew members, not counting family members that went into the stands, the tracks or other series who rented the track paid the series, TSRS receives 3500.00! Each driver pays an entry fee of 115.00 to 135.00 (depending when they pay it) and if they complete 1 lap they receive back, 100.00! First place pays 1,000.00, 2nd is 700.00, 3rd is 500.00, 4th is 300.00 & it keeps going. Now, does a driver make more money running with TSRS, probably not with expenses for travel and overnight stay on occasions, but who races thinking they are going to MAKE money, who really promotes racing and thinks they are going to make money, not locally, it is a sport and a sport most of us dearly love and love those we race with and become like families with. Like I have always said, just let one of our racers have a bad situation happen to them or their loved ones, we are all right there with our love and support! Let racers have words after a race with a competitor or an official, don't worry, they will probably be having coffee together come Monday morning. Now, this series could go away and those cars could return to their local tracks. That would give the local tracks a car count of 7-10 cars, a good number to go off of, keeping in mind, the purse that most tracks pay for these type of cars, their big payout is the top five, that is the biggest part of their expense. I will continue to work to put together an exciting 2004 TSRS race schedule. I will assure each of you that once the 2004 TSRS schedule is put into place for the season, if a track that chooses not to schedule TSRS and to run their own LLM class or whatever they call them and then they decide to not continue to run them on a weekly or biweekly basis, we TSRS will not make changes to our schedule. Each of the TSRS drivers and car owners showed me that they built their lives around our series’ 2003 schedule, and that it was important to them and their families. I will work to continue to do the same this year. I hope to see each of you, November 22, 2003, @ the TSRS Awards/Regonition Banquet. We will celebrate our success for the 2003 race season and you won't want to miss it, everyone is invited to share in the fun and fun we have. With deepest sincerity, Mary Ann Naumann TSRS (TEXAS SUPER RACING SERIES) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supertx Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 I have a question.how come dirt track racing is drawing so many cars in jacksonville 2 or 3 weeks ago they had a sat. night race that had 300 cars in the pits at the same time cowtown had a big race with over 100 cars in the pits. The cars cost about the same to race. So why are these asphalt tracks having so much trouble putting people in the grandstand and building car counts. I would like to see somebody answer this question like some of the track owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slash Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Supertx. Don't they also have a traveling series that competes with their local classes also (Texas Bombers?). It seems to work for them and i see no complaints about it. Why could it not work for asphalt racing also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVCMNGR1 Posted November 7, 2003 Report Share Posted November 7, 2003 Thank you Mary Ann for your well thought out and informative statement. You have my full support in what ever endeavors you decide is best for TSRS this year. NICK. If you edit anything from her statement there will be NO BEER for you at the banquet. LOL Dave Szostek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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