TGural Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 Tommy and I received a call from THR this morning, asking if we planned to run THR next year. Both of us plan to race there (of course, me later in the season). We were also told that TSRS would not be running at THR next year. We like the option of running both the Series and a weekly show at THR 1 or 2 times a month. It seems to us that TSRS puts on a good show for all of the tracks it ran this year and that this would hurt not only the Series, but the track too. I'm not sure what happened to cause this, but it doesn't appear to help promote our class of late models. Both of us are upset. We're hearing that another track might follow suit, wanted to see what the other racers and fans thought of this happening??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRaceFan Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 I find it interesting that THR called and inquired if you and Tommy are running with them next year, I wonder if they were doing it as a courtesey, or to take advantage of an opportunity to "bash" the TSRS series. I wonder also, if they are calling all of their hobby and street car drivers to see if they will be back as well, or only trying to estimate what their LLM class count might possibly be. IF TSRS has been (or hasn't been) included in any schedules at any tracks next year, shouldn't it be the MAN Racing Promotions privilege to announce which tracks they'll be running at? I'm sure that MaryAnn and Lisa are working feverishly to get all of their track agreements in line so that they can start promoting next season. Seems like THR could post their schedule (on their site, or at their rules meeting) and let everyone figure out for themselves that TSRS isn't racing in Kyle next year. Have heard the same rumors about other tracks as what you referenced, and hope that their owners/managers see this thread before they take the initiative to do something that might be misconstrued as bashing a touring series... Best of luck to you and to Tommy (with the new bambino/bambina) and for racing whichever class you choose next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoShotJR? Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 WHAT? No TSRS @ THR? That is a shame. I have enjoyed going up there to watch the TSRS races. It is too far to go every week, but the TSRS and ROMCO races always brought me in. I don't know how but it must have been unprofitable for THR to run them. Right? I mean why else would they not ask them back? Will ROMCO still be running there? I'm just a simple minded person with no connections to get the inside skinny, so somebody help me out here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 If the rumor is true, it certainly would be interesting to know the "rest of the story." I would like to see a large late model count at THR again, whether it be regular TSRS shows or a weekly class. cs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 TGural -- Who called you from Thunder Hill to inform you that TSRS was not going to be running there next season? There are a number of folks who are associated with THR, but it's Brian who has the final say. If you heard it from him, then OK. But if not, then better put this one in the "rumor" category. We're hearing that another track might follow suit I assume you mean the rumor that San Antonio Speedway will not be booking TSRS in 2004. At this point, it is strictly a rumor unless you have heard from Mike Sepich or the track owners that this is fact. TxRaceFan -- I wonder if they were doing it as a courtesey, or to take advantage of an opportunity to "bash" the TSRS series. I wonder also, if they are calling all of their hobby and street car drivers to see if they will be back as well, or only trying to estimate what their LLM class count might possibly be. Track owners/managers/series promoters are well within their bounds when they get in touch with race teams to obtain a head count for the following season. I know that Neil and I spend a whole lot of time taking with our members about their future racing plans. It only makes good business sense. WhoShotJR? -- Track owners have to look at the bottom line, just like any other business. Brian has to make decisions just like I do in my business. Even if THR doesn't book TSRS next season, TSRS could possibly rent the THR facility to put on a race there. I know TSRS did that at least once last season. Since ROMCO events have been well attended, both in the pits and in the grandstands, one would have to assume that ROMCO will be back at THR next season. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRaceFan Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 Nick - posing my question as I did, wondering if anyone from THR contacted their hobby and/or street cars with the same inquiry was in fact, hoping that someone from one of those 2 classes would respond. From earlier threads on this forum in the season, I know that the bombers and hobbies suffered decreased car counts at that track as well, and if the street stock guys are all busy whining about points funds, then they might not be back either! I don't think what I did insinuated that THR is acting sinister at all. However, it brings up a good point. If THR wants to PROMOTE their program/track, then their venue(s) to do so is via their website, this forum board, or at their rules meeting. As I said, they can do so, without having to make it seem like TSRS hasn't been "invited back" for 2004 - by letting their schedule speak for itself, and by letting MAN Promotions post their schedule when it's finalized as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AYERS02 Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 Was'nt there supposed to be a THR Staff mtg Tuesday the 4th. Does anyone know if that meeting happened as planned ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerpete2 Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 That was the meeting that decided not to allow TSRS to come back. The person that called Tommy and Teresa was one of the decision makers at the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 racerpete2 -- That was the meeting that decided not to allow TSRS to come back. The person that called Tommy and Teresa was one of the decision makers at the track. Were you at the THR meeting last night? And do you know if this means that TSRS will not be booked by THR? Or does this mean that TSRS will not run at THR at all, even if they want to rent the track? Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debwill Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 First of all, my comments are strictly mine. Take off your spectator and driver caps and think from a track manager’s perspective. Bottom line, you want to put on the best show possible that will make you the most money. Let’s assume that there are currently 150 registered drivers at Corpus, Kyle, Houston and San Antonio. When a touring series is formed, most of the drivers will come from existing tracks. It’s highly unlikely that the available driver base will increase to 200 drivers due to the addition of a new series. Unless 40-50 new drivers join the new series, the local tracks will likely suffer from driver erosion. I’ve asked a lot of questions about the bookings of the touring series, and I understand that they (TSRS, TPS, etc.) charge the track a fee to put on a show, with the exception of ROMCO. (Nick, please correct me if I’m wrong!) I think ROMCO actually rents the track. The extra income gained from the visiting series (spectators, pit passes, etc.) has to justify the cost of running the series. I don’t have any specifics on how much is charged and how much is gained, but you can bet the track managers do! A good businessman knows what makes money and what doesn’t and makes decisions based on those factors. I’m sure many of you disagree with my thoughts. We even had a heated discussion about this topic at breakfast on Sunday morning in Nashville. I’m not taking sides or trying to bash any series, but I am asking you to look at the issue from a different perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGural Posted November 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 Nick, It was Jim Lynch that we spoke to about THR. According to Jim, he will be involved more in THR this coming year and I'm pretty sure he's a reliable source of information. We were told about TSRS, when Tommy asked about if they planned to change any rules for next year. Since we planned to run both, it makes a big difference to us. I know it does for other drivers, too. We only hoped that TSRS could continue to grow, as well as the car count at THR. If they could work together, I believe that both could be run successfully. Your right about the business decisions and I don't know the details. I hope your correct, about TSRS still being able to work something out with THR, so we can still run there with the Series. I hope that we didn't speak out of turn on the subject. We're just real concerned about the future for our class of cars. Appeared to be a good thing going bad. You are correct about any other tracks following suit. Stickly rumor, from what we know. However, if they're thinking about doing it, we'd like to voice an opinion, if that's allowed? Overall, I think promotors are planning, and some will be forced to, take more money from the driver's and their teams to be able to run next year. (i.e. to rent tracks, pay for points funds, etc.). I hope that doesn't hurt the car counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 When a touring series is formed, most of the drivers will come from existing tracks. Debwill, You're so right, and especially when the rules of the new touring series are identical to the track's weekly class. I guess if I were managing a track affected by the formation of TSRS, I might be tempted to do this same thing in hopes that other tracks might follow suit, thus forcing the touring series to have fewer (or zero) tracks to race at. This whole situation has been a tough one for the past year - the late model drivers and TSRS officials like the series. THR and maybe other tracks do not like what the series has done to their car count. I think what we're seeing is the beginning of a battle of wills. I guess we'll see who will come out on top. Personally, I hope it's the tracks because without them, us little guys have no place to race. cs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVCMNGR1 Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 Oh cry me a river somebody. This is nuts. Here is a series that in it's first year had 32 cars show up at a track to race. It brings it's own officials, it's own tech people even it's own flagman. This is not to mention the growing fan base or the crews that comes through the gate. I would think that tracks would look forward to TSRS coming to town. Now there are whispers that we won't have a place to race? What was that guys name that told Elvis he wasn't marketable? My point exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 Oh cry me a river somebody. This is nuts. There is no refuting the things you've cited as attributes of the TSRS. However, if you look at the issue from the track owner's perspective instead of the racer's perspective for just a second, I don't see how you can say it's "nuts." I know, I know, you guys would have or could have raced in Houston or somewhere else this year if TSRS had not come along, but I'd bet the THR owners are having trouble believing that one just like you guys are having trouble agreeing that TSRS is responsible for the poor THR late model car count. Me thinks the two sides will never agree on that one, so the track will just try to do what it can to get its late models back, prevail or fail. cs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyhorse Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 FYI Shawn Paul received a call from Jim L. too. I do not know all the details, however; Shawn told him he builds race cars to race every week not just a few times a month. Crystal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racing Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 my opinion is that TSRS is responsible for the late model count at THR...if I was the track owners I wouldnt want them to run at my track either, that way the touring series wouldn't have a place to run thats near here unless they rent the track out. But if the owners really want to be mean they don't even have to let them rent the track out. just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ups88john Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 here we go again. actually a few of us kinda figured this was coming. brian is gonna do what he has to do to get his car count up. be it no tsrs at thr, then so be it. i like thr, we always had a good time there, but if tsrs has to go to houston a few more times, or corpus or wherever, then im sure most of the cars will follow. now on the subject of weather or not excluding tsrs from thr will increase the lm car count, i cant tell you that. i think personally if you push the racers away, its hard to get them to come back. The 29 car raced 2 or 3 times at thr(cant remember) that were not tsrs races. if tsrs dosent race there next year, whats the point of racing there at all? just my 2 cents, i hope something can be worked out, but it dosent look like it at this point. big john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krusty_rusty Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 You said it BJ, if THR doesn't want TSRS so be it its Thunder Hill's loss, Mary Ann will just find new tracks to race at or, additional races at existing tracks, TSRS isn't going to suffer because of this move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Justaracefan Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 Maybe I am missing something but I don't know but 4 tracks in Texas that TSRS could race Kyle, San Antonio, Houston, and Corpus and if Kyle says no and rumors hear San Antonio says no that leaves only 2 tracks to my knowledge Corpus did not book TSRS last year that leaves one track so why would the local drivers drive all the way to the Houston if they could run their cars at Kyle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ups88john Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 for one, tsrs will not race at a sas race, but when romco rents the track, tsrs should be there. the part about the local guys towing to houston, you will have to talk to them about it. tsrs will continue to grow, and i hope that all the tracks and classes do the same, the more the merrier. big john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt5858 Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 We need more asphalt tracks in Texas. I know, how about all of us buy old Longhorn Speedway and name it Texas Speedzone Raceway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVCMNGR1 Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 Well, I sincerely hope this decision works out for THR. Just curious, What would the realistic best case scenario be for their car count? Will cars come from Houston and San Antonio for a weekly race? Will all of the TSRS cars originally from THR come back? I don't see the advantage of having 3-4 more cars per week over having 30 some cars 4-5 times a year. Looking forward to the TSRS banquet now more than ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedracer Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 TSRS will still have 4 to 5 tracks next year even if thr dosent let her race there. I know that she already has 2 races next year at sas. I think that the series will be just as strong as it was last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 speedracer, I know that she already has 2 races next year at sas. Where did you get this information? Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supertx Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 Let me put my 2 cents into TSRS not racing at THR. Asphalt racing has been going down hill the last ten years when i first moved back here longhorn speedway had over a 100 cars a night in the pits,not real sure what SAS had at the time. Then brain built THR and it is a nice track but the car count has never came back so where are all the racers gone, DIRT racing. Now why is that ? First off you can take a dirt car just about to any track in the country and the rules are the same.The next reason is that because there are so many tracks the promotors have to take care of there racers to keep them there. Everybody here will say that you race for fun well thats true to a point but will you go race at a place that charges you $25 to get in the gate an entry fee and then bring your expensve race car to race in front of 2 or 3 hundred people for the same money that we raced for 30 years ago. not likely. Race cars are expensive, racers have to have something to sell to sponsors ,the crowds at THR are not there and there not really at any of the asphalt tracks on a weekly bases the only thing that really helps save a racer, is to be with a touring series where they are in front of different people every race. So where is the incentive to come back to asphalt it is sure not on a weekly show its in the touring series TSRS and TAMs they are the only asphalt series that has given any life to asphalt racing and have growing car counts with quality race cars. So why would a promotor try to kill a series brain had several years to make his track work and it hasn't,small car counts and few spectators so what is going to change is he going to up the purse to what TSRS pays to give the people out of town a chance to break even on there travel expensives or he doesn't care about out of town racers or after this many years how is he making changes to really put people in the grand stand and if he doesn't do any of this what is going to happen to all the racers that quit a successful racing series to run with him, just ask the guys in S.A. last year when SAS shut there class down.My other question is where is Brain going to get the money to make all the changes that he needs to make? Off the back gate ? Personelly i would like to see THR and all of the asphalt tracks make it but im afaird that that it hasn't happened in the last several years why would it start now. In my mind i don't think that cutting TSRS out of racing at THR is going to help BRAIN or the racers at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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