landlord Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Smoke Fan? Damn, and I thought you were a pretty smart guy?!!! hehhe I know,I know,I catch it all the time.He is the last "old school"driver left,what can I say!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 if you remember they put the hammer to roush and cost them the championship .. and kept on hammering them for some time ..48 has been hammerd a few times over the last couple of years .and i think nascar is keeping a really close eye on them and not going to let them get away with anything ..no different in any other class and tracks .. if your cought a few times then they are not going to play with you anymore .they will just put it to you from now on .untill another team starts it all over ..and who knows what other underlying things that nascar may have against them that we dont or wont know aboult ..gordan was nascars golden child for some years and now he isnt .wonder how many times he got away with dureing that time .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landlord Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Here is D.Waltrips take on the situation.He has been around for a long time so he should know!!!When NASCAR put the templates they use during inspection on the No. 24 and No. 48 cars at Sonoma, they fit. Those cars were legal to race. Not allowing the Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson to qualify and starting them at the rear of the field are pretty big penalties in and of themselves. I just don't see how NASCAR justifies docking the drivers and teams 100 driver and owner points and suspending the crew chiefs six weeks with $100,000 fines apiece. I know you're going to say, "DW, you're on the Hendrick payroll." I'm not. I'm a competitor who has driven cars and owned teams. I look at these situations through the eyes of someone that has been in NASCAR for a long time. Have you seen the egg crate, the cradle that they built for the little Car of Tomorrow baby? It's huge. It drops down over the top of the car and incorporates every template known to man. There's hardly an area on the car that it doesn't document and verify. Obviously, they forgot to put a template or a check point on at least one area of the car because that's the area where No. 48 crew chief Chad Knaus and No. 24 crew chief Steve Letarte worked. Ever since we've been racing, teams have put templates on the cars and looked at what's left. If there's a place where you can kind of work around that template, that's always been acceptable. That's never been a problem. In the past, if NASCAR saw something on the car that the template didn't check, they might say, "Don't bring it back that way anymore. We're not going to accept it. We don't want to see it." Or they might even make a template off of that car that weekend so you and others don't try to do it again. In 2005, Knaus brought a right rear shock to Dover. It wasn't illegal, but it was a shock that it was built in a manner that NASCAR had never seen before. They didn't even know how to check it. It was just different, but it wasn't illegal. They didn't disqualify him, and they didn't penalize him or anything else. They just said, "We're not going to allow it." Then, they made a bulletin the next week, disallowing shocks that were built that way. That's been the norm in this business ever since I've been in it so when a competitor shows up at a track with something that nobody else had thought of, you don't disqualify them. You may take that part or car away from them. You may tell them not to do it again. But that's the end of it. You don't penalize the team. If I were going to penalize anybody, I would penalize the people that built the templates with which they check the car. They left an area open that someone can manipulate a little bit. If you ask anybody that's ever raced, when the templates fit, your car is legal. If there's something wrong outside that template area, they can make you fix it, but they don't disqualify you, suspend you or fine you. That may be old school or old NASCAR, but that's the way we've always done it. And it's always been accepted by everybody. To paraphrase the late Johnnie Cochran, if the templates fit, you must acquit!!!! Tell Em D.W. I could'nt have said it better myself!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky161 Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Smoke Fan? Damn, and I thought you were a pretty smart guy?!!! hehhe I know,I know,I catch it all the time.He is the last "old school"driver left,what can I say!!!!! I'm a smoke fan and a jeffy fan. It's worked out pretty well for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goober Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Dale Junior modified a part that was assigned by NASCAR, not built by the team. He was issued a penalty, but hew allowed to keep his starting position. The part was found during the pre race inspection, after qualifying, on race day. Actually, the part that the 8 team was penalized for is manufactured by the team. The wing is issued, but the team placed an unauthorized (old Eury Jr claimed) mounting brackets on the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbo Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 I'm amazed so many people go through life with blinders on. Nothing I've read or watched did napcar call them cheating. I think the way I understood it was Napcar said here is the template. The car should look like this. All bodies should look alike. Don't mess with anything on the bodies. One of the reports I saw the napcar official said that what they did was obvious on both cars before they ever put the templates on. That takes care of all bodies should look the same. Knaus said what they did was on purpose that they (the team) thought they could work between the templates. What part of don't mess with anything on the bodies didn't he understand? Come on folks. What Hendrick teams did was a calculated risk. They sent the 24 & 48 thru to see if it would get thru or not knowing if they got nabbed they were still looking good points wise. The 5 & 25 couldn't afford to take a hit in the points so those cars were left alone. I'm not a Hendrick team fan. I do like knowing that there are guys in the sport that are trying to push the envelope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 How can you call someone a cheater in practice? Think that is their reputation more than anything...practice or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeg Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Jumbo is exactly correct. They pushed the envelope and lost. They did not cheat. The infraction would have to occur in qualifing or in the race to be called cheating. The other infractions earlier in the year by other teams occured in qualifing or in the race itself I believe. NASCAR is wrong in this case. We were not NASCAR by any means, however, when we had ARTS there were many trucks that came to tech with all kinds of illegal pieces and parts on them. They were told they would have to correct the problem and come back through tech before they could go onto the track without a penalty. If the infractions were found after qualifing or the race itself, then penalities were handed out to that owner/driver/crew. How can you be illegal if you have never gone onto the track? You could bring a Ford tractor to tech if you wanted to. That does not mean that you should be docked, fined, and or sent home. NASCAR is full of BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landlord Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 I'm glad someone else speaks up that GETS it!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 NASCAR is full of BS. Now THAT, I'll agree with. LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speed demon 7 Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 According to Marty Smith of ESPN, Jimmy Johnson stated that the car that was penalized at Sonoma was in NASCAR's R & D center with those modifications, but was being checked for other things. If it was so noticable, don't you think they would have said something there. Sorry, but NASCAR is digging itself deeper and deeper into a hole. And we thought we had problems at our local tracks?????? The Drama continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMRacer89 Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 The cars FIT the templates!!!!!NOTHING about that is cheating!!!!!!!NASCAR is trying to to take some momentom away and make this year interesting!!!!The 24 and 48 teams have completely dominated this year and ratings are down.It's all about the money.It want matter one of those two teams will probably win the championship anyway. They didn't cheat. You can't cheat in practice. They were not caught in post qualifying or post race tech. Poorboy,your the only one who seems to GET it!!!!!!!!! NASCAR keeps pulling crap like they have been this year, and ratings will be in the toilet anyways. Atlanta didn't even sell out, that has to say something (phantom cautions don't help their image either). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direct-flo Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 found this at sportingnews.com Below is a list of his infractions Chad has gotten in just the last few years. If you can look at this rather long list and not consider him a cheater then you must be a Hendricks fan or you are just fine with cheating. If you are an honest man then you must look at Mr Knaus's long history of cheating and wonder why Nascar has not banned him. 10/2001 (#92 team) Fined $750 for Windshield Clips (too small). 7/2002 (#48 team) Fined $25,000 for Offset mounting bolts for the front of the truck trailing arms 9/2002 (#48 team) Fined $5,000 for Inappropriate language during interview at Dover. 5/2003 (#48 team) (at The Winston) Fined $1,000 for Unapproved Air Directional Device. 5/2003 (#48 team) (at the Coca Cola 600 THE NEXT WEEK) Fined $2,500 for Unapproved use of a refrigerant near the fuel system 2004 Didn't get caught 3/2005 (#48 team) 2 race suspension and $35,000 Fine for the car being too low in post race inspection at Las Vegas. HOWEVER, upon appeal, the 2 race suspension was set aside and he instead was given 90-day probation. 2/2006 (#48 team) 4 race suspension, $25,000 Fine and probation until Dec 31, 2006 for Unapproved Template modification to the rear window area. He was ejected from Daytona. 6/2007 (#48 team) 6 race suspension, $100,000 Fine and probation until Dec 31, 2007 for front fender being too wide (unapproved template modification). This list illustrates why many think the 48 and 24 are having such good seasons, they cheat plain and simple. I can guarantee you that Jimmah and Jeffy aren't ignorant of this fact and are indeed accomplice's to it as well. I hear time and time again what good drivers both Jimmah and Jeffy are, and I would argue that a good driver knows whats going on with his car, and being that they are good drivers they must know about the cheating or they aren't good drivers. The entire Hendricks team should be ashamed, and if you make excuses for them you should be ashamed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 2004 Didn't get caught LMAO Thanks for helping prove my point Tom............I, like some, just love the way the drivers play dumb and proclaim innocence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direct-flo Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 all the drivers are smart until the team gets caught, then its play dumb time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky161 Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 "9/2002 (#48 team) Fined $5,000 for Inappropriate language during interview at Dover." I can certainly see where this gave the 48 team a big advantage, but how did it help the 24 team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direct-flo Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 Chad the chump has a history....and its one big family--follow the leader time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky161 Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 2004 Didn't get caught LMAO Thanks for helping prove my point Tom............I, like some, just love the way the drivers play dumb and proclaim innocence. You mean like Richard Petty claiming he didn't know his crew put left side tires on the right side? BTW, he still got the win, even with that AND a big engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 I don't condone cheating, in fact, I've worked on the "tech side" of the sport almost as much as on the "racer side" and have had to DQ folks - even folks that were once my good friends (a sad part of the Tech man's reality). But if I were a car owner, I'd hire Chad in a country minute. Sure, he's been caught a few times exploiting a gray area, but can you imagine the number of times he didn't get busted? And if you're one of those who think that big-time multi-car teams share everything, think again. I once (long ago) contracted with one team (nope, I ain't tellin') which was part of a multi-car team. I doubt very much that the "sister teams" even even knew what we were working on... Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landlord Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 I agree with everything you posted except I would hire him in a "CITY" minute!!!!I think a city minute is quicker than a country minute!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundogC3 Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 Yea, but the question on nascar.com today is "should crew cheif's caught more than once be penilized more" ..jmo............YES. They need to put Chad to the curb for the rest of the year. cheattin bas#%^% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tqj3 Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 If you look at everything said, it would appear that Hendrick did something within the template which NASCAR hadn't thought to restrict. They told the crew chiefs they couldn't do that, the crew chiefs argued, and NASCAR threw a hissy fit, finally going so far as to ban the teams from practice. They then allowed them to race; a clear violation of their own rules, but they had painted themselves into a corner by then. Why allow the two to race? Because, despite what all the haters would have you believe, Jeff Gordon is the second most popular driver in NASCAR and they'd have to be really insane to keep him out of the race, particularly with the year he's having. (Other drivers may say the COT is too hard to drive, but the Hendrick boys seem to be able to drive it just fine.) Why did they do any of this? Because it's their field and their football, and they can, and because NASCAR is not a racing organization, but a highly lucrative entertainment venue. If you want to see racing, hit THR or HRP or TDR on a Friday or Saturday. Everything else is just a show, but WWE has proved it doesn't matter - we just love soap operas and good guys and bad guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goober Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 If you want to see racing, hit THR or HRP or TDR on a Friday or Saturday. Everything else is just a show, but WWE has proved it doesn't matter - we just love soap operas and good guys and bad guys... Out of all the comments posted in this string, I think this states it the best! It's all about the $$$$. Big money drives the train! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProTree Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 one day Chad will be the Head man in charge of NASCAR tech,just like Nelson was.Got to have somebody that's smarter than the average bear,and he's proved it and still proving it.Nelson was the best at pushing limits and NASCAR hired him,he knew where to look and all the tricks,Chad will more than likely end up there when he's old and gray,busting everybodies a@#. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhcougs Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 just saw on jayski that the 48 and 24 are not going to appeal the penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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