Lucky161 Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 Free advice coming and worth every penny. Hopefully it will be worth a little more, but take a look, borrow any idea you like, dismiss anything you don't like. To the promoters If you have 2000 seats and are only selling 1000 of them, give away 1000. You'll sell 1000 more cokes, hot dogs and popcorn. Save back a few for a surge in paid admissions, but if you've been running for years and have never seen an increase of more than 100, trust me, you won't miss 1000 free seats. What if only 200 show up? So what? Didn't cost you anything and those 200 bought cokes etc. Can't afford to buy advertising to let people know about it? That's ok. Give 10 teams 100 tickets each. Or give 500 fans a 2 for 1 ticket. Maybe sweeten the pot and give them a 50 cents off coupon for a soft drink. Give 100 tickets each to your 10 best sponsors. Wouldn't hurt to give them something physical to show for their support. Any, all or any combination. Get some butts in those stands. Altus is a tiny town and I haven't been there in a few years, but they used to get some pretty good crowds. If you are in Houston, Austin or SA and you can't fill your stands, you aren't trying hard enough. And once you start filling your stands, build some more. Have some posters printed. Give 100 kids 10 each and ask them to put them out at local businesses in their neighborhood. Give the kids some tickets and ask them to invite their friends. If you run 6 or more classes on one night once a week, consider running half as many classes on two nights and cut the admission in half and sell twice as many cokes. And read my advice to the racers please. To the racers. That's drivers, owners and crew members. Take advantage of every opportunity you get to promote your favorite sport. If the track gives you free tickets, make sure they get passed out and try to make sure they get used. It's the chicken or the egg here. Small purses? They sure are, but frankly are you guys and gals getting paid for features that wouldn't make a good heat race? To pay better purses the tracks need more fans and to get more fans, then you need better fields. Consider letting the track combine some of your classes at least temporarily until the fields increase to a decent size. Be sure you are keeping in touch with your sponsors. Be truthful because they might come out and check or more likely they already know, but let them know what you are doing for them. Take them some of those free tickets the track hopefully will be offering you. Take advantage of opportunities to show off your cars. Park your car in front of your sponsor's business. Get some friends to show up with you. To the fans. Take a friend to the races. Take a neighbor or a coworker. Take your boss. I know your boss can probably afford to pay your way, but offer to take him or her. They might just appreciate the offer enough to pay anyway and if not, at least they have seen the races and they might cut you some slack at work too. What could it hurt. When asked what you are doing this weekend, let them know that you are going to the races and suggest they should come out and see what it's all about. Are all of these good ideas? Well obviously I think so, but you might not. Did you see at least one good idea? Works for me then! Will any of these ideas solve all the problems quickly? Not likely. But there are two ways to get rich. One is the fast way which hardly anyone acheives and the other is the slow way that LOTS of people accomplish. Like they say, the longest journey begins with the first step. Please accept these in the spirit they were given and that is hopefully to help everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 Lucky, Over the years race track promoters have discovered a few problems with large scale ticket giveaways: 1) Loyal paying customers often feel like they've been screwed when they discover that everyone around them got in free. 2) The free tickets - obviously intended to bring "new blood" to the track - somehow end up with die-hard race fans who would normally be paying customers but for the free tickets. 3) Concessions, while obviously important to the bottom line, do not make up for a paid admission. Besides that, if the free giveaway tickets don't show up at the gate and the concession folks were planning on a huge turnout, a lot of food could end up in the dumpster. Or, on the other side of the coin, if the concession folks don't have enough on hand for the huge turnout, many hungry or thirsty people end up pissed off. But, keep thinking... or better yet land a job as a track promoter. You'd probably do very well. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastman Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 Nick you sure do have an answer for evrything. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LM109 Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 Did any one see the stands at HRP last weekend,THEY WERE FULL. 20 tickets given to all us drivers to pass out. 18 of my 20 are not big time race goers and they went. But for what I can see dirt brings more fans then asphalt. I am looking at going to asphalt trucks sieries but only 4 trucks there Sat?? What happen to the field? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky161 Posted June 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 Lucky, Over the years race track promoters have discovered a few problems with large scale ticket giveaways: 1) Loyal paying customers often feel like they've been screwed when they discover that everyone around them got in free. No doubt that is true. So have the fans been educated? Do they realize this is for the growth of the sport they love. Have they been told that this is to get increased car counts and more competitive racing? If not, then the idea may still be a good one. In other words, there are almost always other things to consider that won't fit into a sound bite or on a posting on the internet. 2) The free tickets - obviously intended to bring "new blood" to the track - somehow end up with die-hard race fans who would normally be paying customers but for the free tickets. I've seen that happen. That's why I suggested 2 for 1 when handing them out to the fans. And even that is subject to abuse. 3) Concessions, while obviously important to the bottom line, do not make up for a paid admission. Besides that, if the free giveaway tickets don't show up at the gate and the concession folks were planning on a huge turnout, a lot of food could end up in the dumpster. Or, on the other side of the coin, if the concession folks don't have enough on hand for the huge turnout, many hungry or thirsty people end up pissed off. Both of those things could happen, but not at the same time thankfully. For one thing, I don't expect anyone to jump up and do all of the things I've suggested. And the other thing is that I was trying to make the post as concise as possible and still get the point across. They wouldn't have to risk everything on the first roll of the dice, unless they could easily afford to lose and obviously if they could then, this entire topic would not be needed. So instead of giving away 1000 tickets one week, give away 100 a week for 10 weeks. Takes longer, but the risk is smaller. And there are almost infinite numbers of ways to skin a cat. The goal for the promoter should be to make a good profit. I realize some are just as hooked as some racers and some fans and are actually losing money putting on races, but even those types want to make money. And if they are Bruton Smith and can get A LOT of people to let you invest their money, they can start with a $200 million facility and charge $50 a ticket and $3 for hot dogs and cokes. So a better way for most of them is to see how they can fill their stands. Which is better? 2000 people at $4 each or 1000 at $8? It's obviously the same total $8000. But if all of those people spend $2 each on concessions, which one is better? Now they teach economics courses and there are thousands of books on the subject, but Father Sarducci's 5 minute Univerity works for the basics. But, keep thinking... or better yet land a job as a track promoter. You'd probably do very well. I work cheap. In fact I've given out some of my "best" ideas for free. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky161 Posted June 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 Did any one see the stands at HRP last weekend,THEY WERE FULL. 20 tickets given to all us drivers to pass out. 18 of my 20 are not big time race goers and they went. But for what I can see dirt brings more fans then asphalt. I am looking at going to asphalt trucks sieries but only 4 trucks there Sat?? What happen to the field? I didn't, but that is great news. I am not sure what or where HRP is. I can guess and I can probably look it up, but right now, that doesn't tell me enough. But full stands at any race is a good thing in my opinion. 20 free tickets to hand out? That too is a good thing, but it's got to be relative and I don't know enough about that situation to comment. 18 of 20 is for sure a good thing. As far as dirt bringing in more than asphalt, that does seem to be the trend these days, but that goes in cycles. I happen to like both and have seen outstanding races on both surfaces. I've also seen some horrible situations on both surfaces. I've been to races where they only had 4 cars in two classes. Some may remember the Labor Day supermodified championships back in the 60s at Amarillo. I don't know how many cars they had just in the supers, but it was a lot. And name drivers too. Indy drivers at a dirt track. Gave away a brand new car to the feature winner. 3 days of racing with full stands and full pits. Fantastic stuff. Foward a few years and they had 3 supers one night. One wasn't really fast, but it was still WAY faster than the second fastest one which in turn was WAY faster than the last one. They were so far apart at the start, the flagman waved off the start. The first car slowed down on the back straight to let the others catch up. The second one did and then here came the 3rd car. Going into turn 4, the slow car crashed into both of the other cars totalling all three cars before they took the green for the heat race. Pavement. Great races in Lubbock, Amarillo, Altus. 24 late models most of them fast. Cars from CO, TX, OK. Freddy Fryar, Glen Swabe, Don Wilson along with locals JD Hughes, John Foster, Don Burt. For a couple of years, then 8 cars in the LM feature. Well it was 8 cars but only 4 of them were LM, the other 4 street stocks. And 2 of the street stocks could outrun one and sometimes 2 of the LM. Pretty sad. What was right and what went wrong. If I knew all the answers I'd probably be rich. But I think I know some of the answers. And I don't think track surface is a big problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfat Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 Did anyone see the stands when SAS SOLD the tickets to CRASH O RAMA??? Could be the same reason ESPN and the sorts show the wrecks 1000 times and the clean pass once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky161 Posted June 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 Did anyone see the stands when SAS SOLD the tickets to CRASH O RAMA??? Could be the same reason ESPN and the sorts show the wrecks 1000 times and the clean pass once. No but I've been to sold out tractor pulls. And I actually like tractor pulls, but they are not even close to good racing in my opinion. I don't care much for demo derbys and this is what that sounded like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speed demon 7 Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 HRP desperately sent out tickets to people. James Huff, who hasn't raced there in 5 years got 20 free tickets. If yousay the stands were full, I say good for them, but that track never has fans, even at our Texas Grand race. I get 30 tickets per night to give away(I am a sponsor) and I give them all away, but I have never seen more than a few hundred people in a grand stand that holds 5000. That desperate act of giving the tickets away is a very smart thing to do. Get people to realize how fun it is and they will keep coming back. I gave some tickets to HMP this weekend to the mailman at my office, he came in today and said he was going to take his friends next time. And they did get in free, but the spent $30+ at the concession!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racedude Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 Lucky: I saw on another site a picture of Casey Smith in Tech at Mobile and in the article it said that former racing legend Glenn Schwabe was there with Casey - said he has been with Casey ever since he ran Legends and this was his first road trip he had taken with the team in about 2 years, noticed you mentioned him in your acknowledgements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfat Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 Did anyone see the stands when SAS SOLD the tickets to CRASH O RAMA??? Could be the same reason ESPN and the sorts show the wrecks 1000 times and the clean pass once. No but I've been to sold out tractor pulls. And I actually like tractor pulls, but they are not even close to good racing in my opinion. I don't care much for demo derbys and this is what that sounded like. Exactly what it was. Sad fact is that the one time demo derby people out numbered the good racing likeing people 10 to 1. Aint sayin' it's right but it's a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky161 Posted June 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 HRP desperately sent out tickets to people. James Huff, who hasn't raced there in 5 years got 20 free tickets. If yousay the stands were full, I say good for them, but that track never has fans, even at our Texas Grand race. I get 30 tickets per night to give away(I am a sponsor) and I give them all away, but I have never seen more than a few hundred people in a grand stand that holds 5000. That desperate act of giving the tickets away is a very smart thing to do. Get people to realize how fun it is and they will keep coming back. I gave some tickets to HMP this weekend to the mailman at my office, he came in today and said he was going to take his friends next time. And they did get in free, but the spent $30+ at the concession!!! Additional free advice. Just do everything speeddemon does and they will come. Sponsor, racer, posts videos of his races, sets up car shows at hooters, gives away tickets. Careful or they'll want you cleaning the restrooms next. Seriously, everyone can't do everything, but usually everyone can do something. HRP desperately sent out tickets to people. James Huff, who hasn't raced there in 5 years got 20 free tickets. If yousay the stands were full, I say good for them, but that track never has fans, even at our Texas Grand race. I get 30 tickets per night to give away(I am a sponsor) and I give them all away, but I have never seen more than a few hundred people in a grand stand that holds 5000. That desperate act of giving the tickets away is a very smart thing to do. Get people to realize how fun it is and they will keep coming back. I gave some tickets to HMP this weekend to the mailman at my office, he came in today and said he was going to take his friends next time. And they did get in free, but the spent $30+ at the concession!!! He was a great driver. The great news was that he was only one of many great drivers we got to see back then. When any of them won, it was a win over other great ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProTree Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 I can remember in the late 90's in hillsboro,tx we were coming home to austin from cowtown speedway and it was about 1-1:30am sunday morning and we stopped to grab something to eat and Casey and his family had happened to stop at the same place at the same time on their way from Lil TMS from racing Legends and Glen was with them.So he's be around Casey for a long time for sure.It was kinda neat thing that happened.We were all from Austin and our kids had raced 1/4 midgets together for years and gone their seperate ways and now in the early morning hours we had come together at a fast food joint on the side of the hiway coming from different races, 150 mile from home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky161 Posted June 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 One more thing. I don't want anyone to think that I think only my ideas are worth expressing. I think everyone has some good ideas or at least ideas that have potential. I consider this a discussion board and some of what I post is intentionally done to promote discussion. I might want to steal someone else's ideas too (as if I haven't already done so). And feel free to disagree with me or to question me. I don't have a very thin skin. Everyone has a stake in this and the more we discuss things, the more we can understand each other's situation and how we can work to make things better for all. What I'd like to see is rich promoters, racers that make money racing and lots of fans whose comments may sound like Robin on Batman! What I don't want to see is empty stands, room in the pits and closed racetracks. I can remember in the late 90's in hillsboro,tx we were coming home to austin from cowtown speedway and it was about 1-1:30am sunday morning and we stopped to grab something to eat and Casey and his family had happened to stop at the same place at the same time on their way from Lil TMS from racing Legends and Glen was with them.So he's be around Casey for a long time for sure.It was kinda neat thing that happened.We were all from Austin and our kids had raced 1/4 midgets together for years and gone their seperate ways and now in the early morning hours we had come together at a fast food joint on the side of the hiway coming from different races, 150 mile from home. Austin to Cowtown. That's cool. I noticed you are showing to be from texas/alabama. I've only been to 3 tracks in AL. Talledega, Talledega Short Track and Birmingham Fairgrounds. All the same weekend though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racedude Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 So is he (Schwabe) from Austin? How old is he now - that is cool that he still is interested in racing. I just remember seeing his name and was wondering what he raced or when he raced now I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 Lucky, I've been pressing the "free ticket" button for years and all I ever hear is WHY it WON'T work. Blah, blah, blah(sorry Kathy) Yet Lanny Edwards at Devils Bowl does it year after year and has good crowds and good car count.(Go freaking figure, huh!) So you say racers get them........then go where racers aren't! DUH! Some get left out....go by city, zip code, etc. then everyone gets a chance. I'm positive the cost to print a ticket is far less than the COST of an empty seat. I could go on and on.......but I'm tired kicking the proverbial dead horse, it's late and I've had a bad day. BTW, HRP= Houston Raceway Park....the dirt track next to the dragstrip. Super nice place, paved pits, huge stands-----you could hide 1000 people easily and the place would still look vacant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txtom Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 So is he (Schwabe) from Austin? How old is he now - that is cool that he still is interested in racing. Glenn is about 65 or so, and I think he still lives in South Austin between Congress and Manchaca Roads on the South side of Ben White. He has been involved with Casey, I think he has cut back a little, but he was at the 2006 Snowball with the Smiths. Kathy Smith may get on here and tell us a little more about Schwabe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 giveing out tickets helps alittle ... BUT IF A TRACK IS GOING TO DO THAT ..MAY ASWELL LOWER THE GATE TO 4 OR 5 DALLORS .. OR EVEN LOWER FOR A MONTH OR SO ..JUST UNDER WHAT IT COST TO GO TO A PICTURE SHOW ..MAY GET SOME OUT THAT WAY ..AND IF YOU GET MORE THEN YOU ATLIEAST MAKE IT UP ON FANS IN THE STAND ... MAY HAVE TO GET WITH THE DRIVERS AND MAKE SOME DEAL WITH ALITTLE LOWER PURSE ... MAY BALLANCE OUT . BETTER ..OR ONCE A MONTH 3 DALLOR GATE FOR A SHORT ..IF YOU FELL TOGET POEPLE IN THE STANDS .THEN NOMATTER WHAT YOU DO .IT WONT HELP .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbotoddie Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 I don't think dirt is any more popular than asphalt by chance. Look at car counts, dirt is currently pulling more cars. As well, a ticket at the dirt track is generally a little cheaper for some reason. Maybe not everywhere but the ones I have been to. Talking to some friends running dirt, it is definitely cheaper but rule enforcement doesn't exist so it isn't very appealing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbo Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 Dirt isn't cheaper. I was under that impression till I turned to the dark side and went pavement racing. My cost dropped by a significant amount. Thats been one of the things that I've told all my dirt buddies when I talk to them. They are as surprised as I was. Upon hearing that a good number reply maybe I'll give it a try. I think that myth holds back a lot of dirt guys from giving it a try. Now it may not have always been that way but that is my experience so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97car Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 Darn Reb you beat me to it I guess that is why Devils Bowl isn't a success, Lanny has owned the track since 1972 and gets crowds in regularly and puts on a show,remember people do not pay to go see a intermission every caution lap,you must keep it moving and as Lanny says start at 8 and over by 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbotoddie Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 Hey Jumbo What kind of car were you racing on dirt? aspahlt? FWIW, my friend is running a sport mod and generally is a front runner, not necessarily a winner but top 5, top 10 in a 20-25 car field. I understand dirt racers lose more wheels and tires to damage vs wear but I don't know hom many dirt guys are buying a full set of tires every night. Help us out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennystone5k Posted June 5, 2007 Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 dirt racers make an excuse to race, asphault racers make an excuse how to not go racing!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky161 Posted June 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 Some good ideas and comments are showing up. I don't think anyone has all the answers but among all of us, I'll bet we can come up with most of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky161 Posted June 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2007 Lucky, I've been pressing the "free ticket" button for years and all I ever hear is WHY it WON'T work. Blah, blah, blah(sorry Kathy) Yet Lanny Edwards at Devils Bowl does it year after year and has good crowds and good car count.(Go freaking figure, huh!) So you say racers get them........then go where racers aren't! DUH! Some get left out....go by city, zip code, etc. then everyone gets a chance. I'm positive the cost to print a ticket is far less than the COST of an empty seat. I could go on and on.......but I'm tired kicking the proverbial dead horse, it's late and I've had a bad day. BTW, HRP= Houston Raceway Park....the dirt track next to the dragstrip. Super nice place, paved pits, huge stands-----you could hide 1000 people easily and the place would still look vacant. Yep, there are a lot of naysayers out there, but in my experience most haven't tried or seriously tried to actually do anything. To me if you don't try, you might not fail, but you sure won't win. You are right about the Devil's Bowl's promotions. They invite whole communities every week. Everyone from Seagoville gets in free, everyone from Rowlett...... and so forth. But even the Devil's Bowl has empty seats on their weekly shows. What if they got 6-12 race cars and placed them in selected spots around the featured town every week? Do they contact the local weekly paper to get the word around. They may already do those things, but if they do I am not aware of it. Those weekly papers are usually hungry for good stories that affect their community. And their ads are cheap. Put in a small ad and ask for a little write up. Could hurt and might help a lot. A little off topic, but the Devil's Bowl has been hosting ASCS sprint car races since their inception. I know this is generally the paved track forum, but if you've never seen the ASCS sprints, you are missing a great show. I've seen a number of WoO shows and the ASCS puts on a better show almost all of the time. They may not have the Kinsers etc. but they do have Gary Wright and Travis Rilett. Incidently, Gary Wright is the only driver to ever win a WoO, an NCRA, Allstar and ASCS event all in one year and he's done it twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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