liljoe0804 Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Looks like HMP has changed the rules in the "AMCAR" series to level the playing field. Multiple winners will be penalized to slow them down so the rest of the field can catch up and have a chance.at getting a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 I don't think this new rule is aimed at the new AMCARS. It's designed to slow down the car that has been dominating the class for a couple of years. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Multiple winners will be penalized to slow them down so the rest of the field can catch up and have a chance.at getting a win. Is this sarcasm or for real? Penalizing the winners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liljoe0804 Posted May 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 A bit of both actually, a bit of sarcasm about it happening in all classes but for real for the AMCAR class. Win 2 in a row and take a penalty. lose 1% left side and add 200 pounds to total. I am not tearing the series down a bit. I truly hope to see these cars hit the track and succeed. I think it will be cool to see Camaros and Mustangs dueling on the short tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top_shelf_12 Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 I understand growing pains for new classes but this would be my question about the future of AMCAR. Correct me if I'm wrong but the bodies are purchased through the track correct? If they are, are there any orders for them and are there cars being built? It seems like a cool idea and hope it works out for them though just curious if there is a growth potential there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankenstein81 Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Where did the new rules even get posted/ released? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liljoe0804 Posted May 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 hmp amcar rules...only place you will find it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted May 21, 2014 Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 A bit of both actually, a bit of sarcasm about it happening in all classes but for real for the AMCAR class. Win 2 in a row and take a penalty. lose 1% left side and add 200 pounds to total. I am not tearing the series down a bit. I truly hope to see these cars hit the track and succeed. I think it will be cool to see Camaros and Mustangs dueling on the short tracks. Thanks. Took me a bit to find it, but I found it in the rules for the grandfathered stock cars, so this penalty apparently only applies to those cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liljoe0804 Posted May 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2014 Yeah it only applies to the steel body cars that won't be able to run in a few years anyway. I say a few years only because the true AMCAR hasn't hit the track yet. I understand that there are several of them in process and they should be making there debut any time now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hray Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Am I understanding this right----the old dinosaur steel bodied cars are faster than the new sleek, future of racing AMCAR's? LOL That's progress for ya!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liljoe0804 Posted May 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 No Hray that isn't true at all. the new body style car has not been on the track as of yet. There were complications with the body that delayed its roll out to the track. They should start making their way out in the next few races I think. This really has nothing to do with the new car at all. The track has made a call to make the class more level, that's their right as the ruling body. No one can deny that they have the right and maybe even the responsibility to do so for the benefit of the fans. Its just a hard pill to swallow when you know how much time and effort the person that is being penalized put in to the car to get it that way. I am not bashing the track or the decision, just expressing my frustration for the individual that has to swallow the pill. I know that he will most likely take it and might even be able to overcome it, just hate to see it happen, simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 The fact is that the #31 car has dominated that class to the point that it's almost ridiculous to even call it a race. They used their brains and came up with a car that took big time advantage of a loophole in the rules. Yes, anyone else could have used the same loophole, but that would mean building a whole new car by eveyone in the class. The track is trying to slow the #31 down for the sake of the class. I believe the intent of the new rule is to insure that the big heavy older cars have at least a glimmer of hope on not gettng lapped. The track has done the right thing from the standpoint of "the show" although I'm sure liljoe, who is the crew chief I believe of the #31 car is not particluarly happy with the rule. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty9 Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Which loophole. And where is it . We didn't find it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Scotty9, as a former competitor in this class, I assume you are aware of the differences between the #31 and the rest of the field. I have had discussions with both Jack and John about this car over the past couple of years and both described it as a Grey Area in the rules rather than a loophole, My bad. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 I understand growing pains for new classes but this would be my question about the future of AMCAR. Correct me if I'm wrong but the bodies are purchased through the track correct? If they are, are there any orders for them and are there cars being built? It seems like a cool idea and hope it works out for them though just curious if there is a growth potential there. From the grapevine, I understand that Steve Green may have a new AMCAR making its debut at HMP this weekend. Can't wait to see it in action! Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss31 Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Nick first thing is the car was built to the rules with many calls to the tech man to clarifiy gray areas that I found in the rule book. That is part of racing from go carts to formula 1. I chased Cary Stapp for 4 years @ CTS not once did I accuse them of cheating or finding loopholes in the rules. It only made me work harder and learn as much as I could about driving techniques and car setups and it finally paid off, I beat him. Also you talk about my car having an advantage over the heavier cars and that is where the 200# penalty comes in. Well I'm OK with that but the new Am car weighs only 2700#,s. How in anyone's mind is THAT good for the class. they are just trying to replace me with the new Amcar but nobody can see that. I think a 500# advantage is a little excessive for me to overcome . Some people are blaming me for the demise of this class but I talk and hear from others that this is not the case.l even brought another car out last year to help car count and show the cars from CTS hat they could come and be competitive. But only one made the trip the last race of the year and he finished in front of me. I,ve been silent till now but I think everyone needs to know the facts. Thank you for the opportunity to address this issue in my words and not other peoples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liljoe0804 Posted May 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 not the crew chief for the 31 car btw, that would be my son, but only when his grades are good, see I am trying to teach my son how to do things the right way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 David, I'm not saying what you did was wrong. I just said you guys found a way to use the rules in a way that the track ruled to be legal. Nothing wrong with that except that by doing your homework so well, the class has become a shambles. And that overwhealming success has created a situation that the track obviously feels needs to be addressed and has made a rules change. Not your fault. But something had to be done. Now, whether you agree or disagree with what was done, I think you truly understand the situation. Obviously, there are some folks who will be upset with any rules change, usually the ones who will be most "hurt" by the change. This is inevitable and several have voiced their negative feelings in this thread. I have let a portion of those stay in public view but have removed/edited several others. David, I didn't see your post as a bash, but there are some who are venting/bashing. And, as we all know, bashing the track (any Texas short track or Texas-based series), and/or using the forums as a soap box to launch campaigns for or against a track has never been permitted on this site. I do try to be as consistent (with varying levels of success, I'm sure) as possible in dealing with emotional subjects such as this one. That being said, I'll be removing/editing posts that do so. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 not the crew chief for the 31 car btw, that would be my son, but only when his grades are good, see I am trying to teach my son how to do things the right way. Sorry, I thought you were him... I mean, I thought he was you... Screen names. Gotta love 'em! LOL Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryJr Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 I am not sure about the total domination of the class. The last race had a very racy battle between the 31 and the 55 car. The fans were excited and both Winnie and David enjoyed the battle. David is not unbeatable, and the other cars are more than capable provided the homework is done and a little learning from his driving style. David has even helped his competitors with set up and suggestions. Nobody wants the class to succeed more than him. David has complied with every request the track has made and even chopped is car apart over the off season to move the roll cage which many thought was the advantage. Obviously not so. You mentioned those that are "hurt" by this change. Let's start with David whose commitment to the sport is undeniable, or those including myself which worked their tails off every race day to assist him. How about the sponsor for David's car, which sponsored a race last year? What about the many fans that come to support him? I do believe the Amcar series will be a huge success with the fans. I am unsure how many racers or future racers can afford the Amcar class. The stock cars created an affordable stepping zone to the higher classes if they can afford it. David has a wife and 2 children to which he is a provider for but does not live beyond his means by racing a class he can't afford. I am a small business owner which was looking forward to eventually supporting a car in the future that has the ability to compete in a sportsman like fashion, and represent a company in a professional fashion. David is one of those people. Let me be clear. I am in no means bashing the rule change decision. The class is very short on cars. The track has been very successful and while other short tracks have closed their doors, HMP continues to grow. I think that there should be a way to keep that stepping stone in place and still bring in the Amcar series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 You hit on a very important point, Gary, and made it well. Racers and Tracks have very different goals: 1) A racer's goal is to win. To dominate. To kick butt. To be the best. These are great goals and the Webster team has acomplished all of the above. Well done. And anyone who says otherwise just isn't paying attention or has some sort of jealousy issue. 2) A track's goal is to stay in business by putting on a show that is marketable, entertaining and profitable. In order for that to happen, the track has to manage (juggle, actually) many different aspects of the product for fans, racers and sponsors. Sometimes adjustments have to be made if one part of the show fall short for whatever reason. Classes have been canceled. Tracks have closeed - too many, in fact. Prices and prize money have been adjusted. Sponsors have been added and sponsors have left. In this case, a rules adjustment in the AMCAR class has been made that adversely impacts the car that has succeeded exceptionally well. I see both sides and am not taking sides here. However, posts that bash, condemn, defame and make accusations will be removed. I do that for any track and for any racer - since one of the posts I removed was directed towards a racer. Thankfully I caught it just as it was posted and a PM has been sent to that individual. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radracr Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Rules change or not, I can beat the 31. As Gary mentioned above - he can be beat. Why else would we own the track record and he doesn't? Both our wins came by beating the 31. (Sorry, David, this is said with good intentions.) All that said, I have been told 100# is a 10th. That would give the upper hand to the AMCARs by 4. Now my car can run 57% leftside at >3100. I have been told that 1% left side is a 10th. I just earned back 3. That still puts me in the hole 1. Regardless of what the track does, or has done - they are in the ineviable position of making the rules. But they do this by studying the results and with apparent just cause. I received a call letting me know what was going on and why. I was also asked for my input - though none of that made it into the rules. I do believe David will likely slow down by at least a 10th - unless he runs new tires every race, which I haven't seen him do. And, had I had a better RF tire - David would NOT have won that last race! It will be interesting to see how this weekend unfolds. I am not shy about laying a bumper, or door to another car. Let's just hope "Boys, Have at it" still applies. Mal intent is a different mattter. At the end of the day, we racers have a choice - race or not. I'm choosing to race. I do like the idea of being able to continue to run my car AND change the body AND transmission set up. Though that won't be right away as I want to be the first to beat an AMCAR in a "beat up ole' jalopy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
looneedude Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Yup 31 has been beat by several of us. That guy is smart knows what he is doing and works hard, and has the skill and ability to do well. And has taken every rule to the edge without going over that edge.....thats what he is supposed to do as a racer. Hmmmm at one point some people felt as though a nova had an advantage over the full frrame cars....and it was decided to penalize the one and only nova with % rules and ride height rules......so the guys that had the nova took advantage of the full frame rules and built a new car, and after a race or two to get some electrical bugs worked out it was fast...fast like first to the 15.9s And went on to win with different drivers and happens to still be winning to this day...however prior to that new car the nova still won with the penalties. This isnt some unprecedented situation....personally i kinda liked the challenge of winning even with the "disadvantage" .....just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted May 22, 2014 Report Share Posted May 22, 2014 Nick, please go ahead and delete my posts on this topic. If one sentence "I see where this is headed" is too controversial for this conversation, I'd just as soon not be in it. Thanks. By the way....I see where this is headed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 Chase, I just do the best I can. I am sorry if my edit was inappropriate. Hopefully you did not get to read a couple of the posts that were outright bashes of your race team. I stayed up quite a while last night to make sure the bashing had stopped. A couple of accounts have now made it to the moderator approval status. You have to understand that things on my end get pretty hectic once the bashes start flowing. Once someone sees a post that seems to be a bash, some will catch the boo-bird bug and start up with their own rant. I try my best to be fair, but Lone Star Speedzone has never been a bash site and (as long as I run it anyway) it never will be. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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