Jason Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 All Involved Rule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkr77 Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 What makes yall think that the Judgement call is going to be any better? They are still doing a judgement call now by deciding who is actually involved. If they actually used the "all involved rule" the right way, then it would be a good one... I am undecided, people are going to gripe either way... Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProTree Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 we live in a prefect world -lol -i agree tim- people will be still be pissed-no matter what rule is used- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerx Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 What makes yall think that the Judgement call is going to be any better? ACCOUNTABILTY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckman Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Believe it or not Jason has raced at THR,I didn't even think he would show up,and won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrungot Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Hey.. we need to becarefull with the words "Raced at THR" there were only 2 cars racin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckman Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 abrungot Did you see Jason when he got out of the car? I thought they were giong to have to give him a shot to cure the shakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racegirl15 Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Hello all you THR racers. Long time no write. This Is Red Shark Racing #15 , X --- hobby racer. I just wanted to say the all involved rule is a good rule it just needs to be tweeked... THE BOTTOM LINE IS THE RACE NEEDS TO BE BETTER OFFICIATED.... The best thing that rule does for the racers is... after getting close to the leader or car in front of you and getting a run sometimes you bump him... well guess what, with the old rule the chicken in front would spin sending you to the back and retake his spot not to worry about you for a while. With the all involved rule this year it keeps the guy trying to save his car instead of just turning and spinning.... old rule new rule doesn't matter -- the black flag is the problem! The racers have to defend themselves to the end... if there was a black flag shown to the driver who is being too rough or the driver who is brake checking or blocking too much, there would be alot more respect for the track... If you fix it they will come! Nobody out there wants to have to defend his car or his right to race. After they have to do it several times they either change tracks or quit racing all together... or maybe they drive their car thru the next to make a statement. We are all guilty of it - some were caught...some were not... some have the patients to wait & run thru them in a crash they did not start. The all involved rule has kept alot of cars from just saying 'oh well' and hitting the car that was spinning maybe to take a tire or rear axle with them... The track has no disapline and untill that happens there is no rule that will help the racers. The Officials and the owners have to put their foot down and say NO MORE and have to enforce that. It will fix alot if not all the issues.... Everyone looks to the leaders to lead, if they don't then its mayham. Nick said He would use the black flag... but it sounds to me like he needs to use it a whole hellofa lot more... Nick that's what the track wants and needs....DISAPLINE.... All involved has saved some cars and judement has ruined some cars.... I think THR needs to step up and be like Nascar a bit with Fines, Suspension's, DQ's, etc. You have low car count, watch and see how many cars (and fans) you get after you take no crap from anyone. If a car doesn't pay the fines take it from their payouts of even their points fund. If you trailer a car for not listening to a call or DQ them for rough driving or even driving too fast in the pits, do you think they will do it again? Not the real racers... John Lasker x hobby #15 Just for the record, I didn't quit because of what people said on TSZ or said to me, I quit last year but came back because they promised changes. I quit for good this year because they didn't stick to them. I have raced at THR for the past 5 years & I would have to admit there has been more complaining & pissed off racers than they last four years put together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KELLY83 Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 A track in New Mexico (dirt!) a couple years back put into place a no contact rule. If you rubbed, bumped, touched, slammed, nudged, banked, glanced off of or anything else that consisted of 2 cars touching in any form for any reason, accidental or intentional.... ALL CARS THAT TOUCHED WERE BLACK FLAGGED! Not sent to the back, not given spots back, but sent to the pits, loaded on the trailer and gone for the night! They did it off and on for a year and have done away with the rule, but it has cleaned up the racing, it's being threatened to be used off and on, and some nights they have put it in place for a certain couple classes of cars. The car count is up, everyone is friends, and there are nice clean race cars, and you don't get all of this bickering. Lets do it for a couple nights Nick and put an end to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 I just wanted to say the all involved rule is a good rule it just needs to be tweeked... No offense John, but you left when the all-involved rule was being used. I was speaking to a driver about this a couple of days ago. He and I agreed on one basic flaw in the all involved system. In my mind, this debate boils down to the fact that we basically race with two types of drivers: Type 1 - Those that do everything in their power to drive clean week after week. Type 2 - Those who just don't care and will block other cars and come down into another car's lane regardless of whether or not the other car has earned the spot. Just about every week at THR you can see examples of both types of drivers. When a type 2 driver who is relatively fast is in front of a type 1 driver, you can almost forget about the faster car making the pass. The clean drivers will get along side a slower car trying to make a pass and the slower car will turn down into them every freakin' time going into the turn. The clean drivers stand on the brakes, smoke the tires at times, and get their cars out of shape at times just to avoid being run over by the "blocker." The all involved rule has only made this scenario worse folks. The drivers who doesn't care what happens will continue to block while the clean drivers work even harder to avoid incidents for fear of being sent to be back no matter how much they've "won" the spot. It encourages blocking! Is that really racing? Do the fans want to see that or do they want to see the faster car make the pass when he's earned it? At least with the judgement calls, a driver will push the issue a little more if he knows he's got the spot won. That makes for more passing, and more passing is what racing is all about. And don't even get me started on the "no contact" rule. This is racing, right? cs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkr77 Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 But you can also look at it this way...If type #2 driver knows that they have a 50/50 chance of getting their spot back, they will still do the same thing, so what does that solve? Blocking is a part of racing, no one is going to just let someone go by. Maybe if the type #1 driver starts letting type #2 know they aren't going to put up with their crap, the #2 will start driving a little different. People push people until they push back. Give 'em a taste of their own medicine... Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckman Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 You go Chase Very good points but you forgot about driver type 3. Drive it into the corner as hard as you can and use the car infront of you to slow down for the corner. Alot of times you have a type 2 get past a type 1 then you have the type 1 turn into a type 3 and run over the type 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jracer98 Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 This is more of a story than a suggestion. Years ago when Lakeside in Kansas City was a paved track, there was a white line in the center of the track that started entering 1 and went to about 1/2 of the way down the straight. The same thing entering 3 and onto the front straight. The rule was that you could not cross the line. If you went into 1 "low" , you could not "cross the line" and let the car go to the wall. Same thing in reverse if you entered "high". You were free to choose low or high and could change on a per lap basis as long as you could get it done between the end of the line on the straight and the beginning of the new line at turn entry. Strange huh? Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckman Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 It doesn't matter to me whether it is the all involved rule or judgement calls I just wish I was still racing I have raced with both rules in effect and never had a problem with either one.The bottom line is like John posted if the track would do something about the way a few of the drivers are racing then it would curb some of the blocking and mirror driving,but the track needs to take action when it happens on the track not in a room with the door shut or a verbal warning later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerx Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 this thread was just for voting... Choose 1: -Judgement Calls -All Involved I think Marc was going to print it out and take the results to Nick and Bryan...we will never be able to legislate out some level of judgement or human error or bias [Edited out by Nick Holt, 8/28/04] no matter which way we go...but we can debate the merits on another thread...all THR people vote and say who you are (driver, fan, crew, whatever) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckman Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Then it should have been started as a poll not a topic I start one now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jracer98 Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 sorry. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckman Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 I tried but I guess you have to be an administrator.Nick Jason Chuck anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerx Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 we can count as long as people give a brief answer...we should have done a poll first, but what do you expect out of a bunch of drivers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckman Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 My understanding from Jason is that the Poll thing hasn't worked in a while. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrungot Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Poll's work on www.thunderhillraceway.com and i think that would be a better place for this topic.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckman Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 There you go and it would get to the people it needs to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyhorse Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 we get a better and more accurate count here...most people are'nt registered in thr web site right now.... this pole is working fine-unless you don't like the results so far... i was way off -it's a lot more than 80%.........all these points about it being a rule that needs to be tweaked-it's damn near september,we past the point of tweaking up three months ago...if your not gonna fix it do away with it....so just vote here - don't take it to the thr web site..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
termite#99 Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Judgment calls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Driver #99 street stock Cary Stapp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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