fastman Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 need some help, got a dirt track car and im gonna scale the car soon, what I need to know is where on the car is the best location to bolt lead to. I also need to know front to rear % along with any other % that should be controled with lead location. THe car is a stock metric chassis and gonna be run in a super stock class. Any help helps, THANKS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmbishop Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Low and to the inside of the frame rail is best. And I always prefer boxing it with steel welded to the rail - and then thru bolting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sm44 Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 which track you running at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Low and to the inside of the frame rail is best. And I always prefer boxing it with steel welded to the rail - and then thru bolting. That works great for asphalt racing, but I see a lot of dirt guys mounting lead much higher in the car. The higher CG seems to promote the side bite that helps the dirt cars work well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sm44 Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Low and to the inside of the frame rail is best. And I always prefer boxing it with steel welded to the rail - and then thru bolting. That works great for asphalt racing, but I see a lot of dirt guys mounting lead much higher in the car. The higher CG seems to promote the side bite that helps the dirt cars work well. very true when the track slicks off, when there is bite in the track this will make the car very tight,thats why i asked which track, if the track has lots of banking and stays heavy then lower, if it is flatter and slick i would raise it up. joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Low and to the inside of the frame rail is best. And I always prefer boxing it with steel welded to the rail - and then thru bolting. That works great for asphalt racing, but I see a lot of dirt guys mounting lead much higher in the car. The higher CG seems to promote the side bite that helps the dirt cars work well. very true when the track slicks off, when there is bite in the track this will make the car very tight,thats why i asked which track, if the track has lots of banking and stays heavy then lower, if it is flatter and slick i would raise it up. joe This is why some dirt racers have built "lead sleds" into their chassis to be able to move the weight around depending on what track conditions call for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyT66 Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Low and Inside????,DISAGREE BIG TIME....,We put our weight high and outside frame well as far a possible...Even the fuel cells on most DIRT cars are high....I am talking when the track is dry and perhaps slick, Like most TEXAS tracks...If its Tacky, its easy to remove extra weight at heat time, then add as needed....Frank t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmbishop Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Hey I admit I lack experience with dirt - consisting of as a teen towing an asphalt car to Tecate mexico where my godfather tore em up with slicks (shoulda seen those mexicans race out and buy slicks when he was beating em lol) then running the same car at Cajon on saturday with only a trip to the car wash - then many years later as 2nd wrench on one Nat Dirt Racing Assoc Outlaw LM west coast tour season (1985) with Finishline Engineering and Rick Bogart driving 7 wins of 11 starts with 2 dnfs. Of course that car was not "normal" by any stretch of the word. It was the only car in the pack running stuck low groove like it was on asphalt - at El Centro we only saw three yellows in a 100 lap main - were about 10 laps shy of lapping the second place car at the checkers. The owner/car chief - Don Schmidt (he owned FLE and jigged many west coast dirt and asphalt chassis - this car was his baby) was quite tight lipped about what he had done geometry wise - given the success we saw I wish he had shared!!! Was a watts link rear. long arm ford front and a torque arm to the trans rear mount brace - beyond that all I know is I welded 175 lbs in just behind the right front clip section. And had to add 75 more at right rear when we scaled first time in Phoenix to meet their 2800 lb minimum. That was to get to 60% left, 58% rear and 58% cross fueled up. And both adds were done just like all the asphalt cars I had done over 3 years working with and for Don. Shame the program fell apart in divorce fights. Of course makes sense to go high with it when you are really rolling the chassis to use the trailing links... so I guess it comes down to what suspension you got, rules etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyT66 Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 He stated it was a stock metric chassis to be run in super stock...so i take it that it will be at i37....I think we have won a couple of races there.....Frank t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprintsrule Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Hey I admit I lack experience with dirt - consisting of as a teen towing an asphalt car to Tecate mexico where my godfather tore em up with slicks (shoulda seen those mexicans race out and buy slicks when he was beating em lol) then running the same car at Cajon on saturday with only a trip to the car wash - then many years later as 2nd wrench on one Nat Dirt Racing Assoc Outlaw LM west coast tour season (1985) with Finishline Engineering and Rick Bogart driving 7 wins of 11 starts with 2 dnfs. Of course that car was not "normal" by any stretch of the word. It was the only car in the pack running stuck low groove like it was on asphalt - at El Centro we only saw three yellows in a 100 lap main - were about 10 laps shy of lapping the second place car at the checkers. The owner/car chief - Don Schmidt (he owned FLE and jigged many west coast dirt and asphalt chassis - this car was his baby) was quite tight lipped about what he had done geometry wise - given the success we saw I wish he had shared!!! Was a watts link rear. long arm ford front and a torque arm to the trans rear mount brace - beyond that all I know is I welded 175 lbs in just behind the right front clip section. And had to add 75 more at right rear when we scaled first time in Phoenix to meet their 2800 lb minimum. That was to get to 60% left, 58% rear and 58% cross fueled up. And both adds were done just like all the asphalt cars I had done over 3 years working with and for Don. Shame the program fell apart in divorce fights. Of course makes sense to go high with it when you are really rolling the chassis to use the trailing links... so I guess it comes down to what suspension you got, rules etc. 2011 - 1985 = 26 years. Things have changed a lot since then no matter what the rules are so I would go with Frank's theory. Frank and his son are winning races now not relying on information from 26 years ago. The Torres family is very helpful and great people. Look them up for great advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmbishop Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 2011 - 1985 = 26 years. Things have changed a lot since then no matter what the rules are so I would go with Frank's theory. Frank and his son are winning races now not relying on information from 26 years ago. The Torres family is very helpful and great people. Look them up for great advice. This I know - I was merely defending my outta left field opinion from just such an attack by demonstrating where my wrong thinking came from (firstexperience too young to understand and second WAY different class of car)! lol And the rules play a HUGE role - compared to a class where the only rules are minimum weight, distribution, fuel and safety - stock classes (or modified where the extravagant designs are still not allowed) would HAVE to be different. And of course 26 years changed everything - all of the Obama administrations recent changes to the laws of gravity, momentum leverages and or co-efficient of frictions have left me behind in understanding them... But I can admit I was wrong. And see how high and sometimes even right is a good thing (on asphalt all four tires working equal is the goal and on dirt side bite becomes more of a target) - so... Bolt the driver's seat to the roof and hang the lead on a three foot pillar off the right door bars for maximum side bite on apex. lmao (Notice the last line in my post you quoted - I agreed with Mr Torres and his reasoning - there was no need to further salt my wounds - unless you enjoy whipping dogs and old guys that are down and thats just how you make your ego feel better. In which case whip away - you need the boost more than I) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scopx Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 JWMBISHOP- Bless your heart-Am familar with El Centro as lived in Yuma Az for a few years. Whole area is a "beech." Think the youngsters should consider the efforts and wisdom of those who has gone before them. Some have forgotten more than some will ever learn. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robwhite Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 JWMBISHOP- Bless your heart-Am familar with El Centro as lived in Yuma Az for a few years. Whole area is a "beech." Think the youngsters should consider the efforts and wisdom of those who has gone before them. Some have forgotten more than some will ever learn. Tom I agree 100% , then there are those that need the "pat on the back" .....just to feed the ole EGO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprintsrule Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Easy there jwmbishop. No attack on you at all. I was just pointing out the information from Mr. Torres would be the more helpful of the two. You tried to help (which is great) but it was not good advice. If he followed your advice he would be in left field and have trouble ever getting out. I am not sure Obama changed all that but other people have changed tires, shocks, springs and the way a lot of other things are built that would change where weight would be added. Not sure why you would think I was helping my ego. I did not tell him I knew where to put the weight. I am not that smart but I am smart enough to know who to seek out for the correct information. Mr. Torres is one who knows the information and is willing to share it with new dirt racers to get them started in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmbishop Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Don't worry I am easy about it! Actually laughing - I remember when I used to catch the old timers being behind. I got a kick out of it then too! But back to the OP question - I would say as low as you can while still getting enough roll to get the side bite. Would love to see some pics of what other guys are doing to make a box that remains safe vs just thru bolts - lead is soft enough to pull off of bolts - especially in a sudden stop against the wall! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprintsrule Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 I remember when I used to catch the old timers being behind. I got a kick out of it then too! I do not get a kick out of it. I have great respect for the people that raced before me. Enough that I would not even call them an old timer because that name is not a sign of respect. A lot of them are helping with the new racers and teaching them the right way to race. The advances with safety and performance came about from them. You simply gave bad advice based on what you did 26 years ago as YOU stated. That has nothing to do with anybody's age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 THIS IS ENTERESTING ... I ALMOST GAVE THAT MAN AN ANSWER .BUT I WOULD HAVE BEEN WRONG ..IVE LEARNED SOMETHING HERE ABOULT WHERE TO ADD WIEGHT .....WHO SAID YOU CANT TEACH AN OLDTIMER SOMETHING NEW ...... MOST OF US OLDTIMERS DONT THINK CALLING US OLDTIMERS IS A LACK OF REPSECT ....FACT IT DONT BOTHER ME .BESIDES IVE BEEN CALLED ALOT OF OTHER THINGS I CANT SAY HERE .......NOW IF I CAN JUST FIGURE OUT AN EASY WAY TO GET RID OF THIS MID SECTION AND LOWER REAR SECTION WIEGHT OFF OF ME /// ID FEEL ALOT YOUNGER .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLovin Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 Torres brothers win at I-37 Last night , pures & sportmods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmbishop Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 .NOW IF I CAN JUST FIGURE OUT AN EASY WAY TO GET RID OF THIS MID SECTION AND LOWER REAR SECTION WIEGHT OFF OF ME /// ID FEEL ALOT YOUNGER .... Your weight is low and inside as well eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Fan Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 My weight is mostly in the middle and in front. And getting it off is a b**ch. However the weight I had in the rear seems to be disappearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KISS_Racing Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Torres brothers win at I-37 Last night , pures & sportmods Yep! Adam looked good and Johnny did an awesome job coming through the field. Just when I thought Anthony was going to pick up a win in the sportmods here comes Johnny. Great job Torres Family.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SASPEEDRACER24 Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 On the 24 Thunderstock that I brought from Kyle to I-37 I didn't change where the lead was mounted for the most part. Car handled pretty well all things considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.