Danielsen Motorsports Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 If thats the approach then things like cheaper longer lasting tires should be considered not engine parts and if there is a change it needs to be right after the season not several weeks into a new season regardless if it was on the table or not. I am a front runner no matter the rules nor track but I understand it takes the lower budget teams to put on a show. I can buy any part at any time to bolt on. Promoters and track owners must protect the lower budget teams first and foremost not the front running teams as we can adjust alot easier then guys that have obligations, families, and finacial commitments. To say its only $125 from any speed shop is rediculous. If its so cheap go get a deal for a dozen sets and pass them out to the rest of the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racer '77 Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 If thats the approach then things like cheaper longer lasting tires should be considered not engine parts and if there is a change it needs to be right after the season not several weeks into a new season regardless if it was on the table or not. I am a front runner no matter the rules nor track but I understand it takes the lower budget teams to put on a show. I can buy any part at any time to bolt on. Promoters and track owners must protect the lower budget teams first and foremost not the front running teams as we can adjust alot easier then guys that have obligations, families, and finacial commitments. To say its only $125 from any speed shop is rediculous. If its so cheap go get a deal for a dozen sets and pass them out to the rest of the field. You think I'm lying? You think what I said is ridiculous? Look it up on just about any speed shop dealer. Day Motorsports part #RA-R-840RS $109.99 for the set! Southwest speed $120.00. Hell, a good set of regular stamped steel rockers is going to be close to $100.00 So the statement was ridiculous? If people shop around, you can find a lot of things cheaper than just to settle with the first thing they find. I do my homework and study these things a lot. But, you know, I'm better than that, I'm not getting into a pissing match with any one about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Well I've got no dog in this fight.....and have been told that since I no longer race my opinion is worthless.... BUT....racing is evolution, some good, some bad.....Stephan mentioned "racers are their own worst enemies"....That's so true, said it for a long time....There's always a group or individual that lobbies for this or that to go faster and get their way....The have's will make the changes(whether they like it or not), the have not's will quit/sell their cars....Been watching that happen since 78 when I got more into circle track than drag racing..... We have lost numerous classes because costs have gotten out of control, a lot of time due to rule changes or rules not being kept in check by tracks.... Instead of people trying to move their class up, why not just move up a class? This way cars become available for newer drivers, and upper classes get new cars with experienced drivers... With the exception of improved safety equipment, rules packages should stay in place a MINIMUM of 4 years, then at that point maybe make minor changes per majority agreement... Things are only going to get tougher and tougher for tracks with gas prices out of control, and sponsorships for them and racers harder and harder to secure.....I could go on about number of classes, etc.....but that's an argument for another thread, another day.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielsen Motorsports Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Racer 77 my point being is drivers spending money. Why is there a need this week to spend a $100 or else when there wasnt last week or the week before that. Nobody says your lying where ever that came from. There is simply no need for those rockers but sounds like it doesnt matter. Rocker arms break when wore out or over taxed, so do timing chains so should we all go to gear drives? Maybe run 4 beadlocks cause the class is faster this year and busting tires off the beams more often. We as racers espicially the more experienced racers need to protect the class we race in to some degree. I mean the horse left the barn a long time ago with other outrageous rules but nontheless. If a rocker arm is breaking at 6800 well then stop turning it 6800 otherwise finish on 7 cylinders. I personally want to race against you, the rest of the crew and alot of others when the chance arises. Not pray we have a class next year to race in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan68 Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Well I've got no dog in this fight.....and have been told that since I no longer race my opinion is worthless.... BUT....racing is evolution, some good, some bad.....Stephan mentioned "racers are their own worst enemies"....That's so true, said it for a long time....There's always a group or individual that lobbies for this or that to go faster and get their way....The have's will make the changes(whether they like it or not), the have not's will quit/sell their cars....Been watching that happen since 78 when I got more into circle track than drag racing..... We have lost numerous classes because costs have gotten out of control, a lot of time due to rule changes or rules not being kept in check by tracks.... Instead of people trying to move their class up, why not just move up a class? This way cars become available for newer drivers, and upper classes get new cars with experienced drivers... With the exception of improved safety equipment, rules packages should stay in place a MINIMUM of 4 years, then at that point maybe make minor changes per majority agreement... Things are only going to get tougher and tougher for tracks with gas prices out of control, and sponsorships for them and racers harder and harder to secure.....I could go on about number of classes, etc.....but that's an argument for another thread, another day.... totally agree with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielsen Motorsports Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 I thought Racer 77 was poor Chris for a second. Sorry dude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshf303 Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Stephan, Rebel, and Alan seem to have hit nailed! Im no expert by any means, BUT I DO KNOW THAT WHEN YOU IMPLEMENT WAYS OF THE PUSHING THE LITTLE MAN OUT, YOUR SETTING UP FOR DISASTER!!!! Hell, look at YOUR own government! Perfect example of the "big man" pushing the hard working, being robbbed to save Paul, little man out. Politics is a WHOLE nother can of worms that I damn sure don't want to open up, even though they are just as F@%#$& up with local dirt track racing as the national level. I thought Alan and David's president would have things whipped back into shape by now, boy was I wrong Sure....I'm all for progression, evolution, and finding ways to make things better. But when does it stop??? Couple hundred bucks here, a rule change, a few there, $125 this week for another new, "improved" rule change? It's expensive enough.With the lack of a complete teching to find the ones that are spending enormous amounts of money and BLATANLTY breaking the rules...you wonder why people aren't showing up??? I agree with Stephan. If your gonna make a rule change, make it for a safety issue or it a way to allow MORE people to come out and race. NOT TO SPEND MORE AND MORE MONEY TO TRY TO KEEP UP WITH THE RULES. If it does infact prolong the life of the drive train, thats great! BUT, what has happened to get you to this point where your having to spend that money?? Rule changes in the past that have completely taken the "STOCK" out of "STREET STOCK"!!! It was enough to push myself and others out. Bought a Monte Carlo last week and look forward to going out and HAVING FUN in the pure stock class. JUST HOPE THATS WHAT IT STAYS.....a PURE stock class. You wanna spend the money, go faster...move up and challenge yourself in another class. Or do whats right for the sport as a WHOLE......not for your personal benefit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david23 Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 tracks are not going to have the same rules just to keep their racers at home . I would love to run cheaper tires but a 1000# of more weight doesnt get it. I started on g-60 tires and sat in the middle and watched most of the races Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan68 Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 It sure seems like everybody here is on the same page why cant everybody else be and not be so difficult it is obvious that there are racers that need to move up are follow the rules and stop trying to change them and go race Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer027 Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 racing is cheap, winning is expensive But seriously, what can they do now? We cant just go back and change everything how it use to be 3 or so years ago. This is the class that we now have. Everybody knows this class has evolved into something way different than the "bombers" they were when i started in 2008. And even then they really were not true bombers. All we can hope for is that sos, i-37, and trp can get together and agree on a set of rules for the pure stock/bomber class and keep it there. don't keep allowing this or that unless its for safety. keep it fun and keep it affordable. Tech properly and add a claimer rule on the motor for the top 5 threw tech. This will keep people from playing in the "grey area" like some of these farm truck guys are talking about. why dont yall have a claimer rule if all your racing for is a 6 pack and a hotdog? Anyways the pure stock class is your new stock, affordable, entry class now and lets make sure it stays that way. it would be nice to bulid one and take it to trp, sos, i-37 and even corpus if the rules were the same.... that "grey area" it seems to be the word substituted for cheating seems like racers found a way to get away with it when a grey area comes up it should be corrected not overlooked their is only a few racing in grey area and alot racing within rule compliance and lots more talking about not racing because of this grey area not being dealt with i think in purestock and farmtruck claimer rule would stop this even a little less tear down fee like 200.00 for purestock and farm truck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1955chevy33 Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 SMOKEY YUNICK pushed the grey area for all it was worth and is thought of as somewhat of a hero. Why is the rest cheaters when the tracks are not specific about a rule ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigdogracing777 Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 Boy I have waited a long time for some one to say something about the gray areas WHICH I WILL START CALLING AREA 51!!! Now I'm just a proud grandparent of a kart racer. I have no dog in this fight either! But I do know one thing THEY ALL DID IT TO THEM SELVES. Every one knows what stock means If I didn't come from the factory on that engine it's not stock, That doesn't mean because it has a gm stamp you can put it on there! Some day we will be running in that class and I myself have a lot to learn so I always watch the threads and try to keep up with the latest. Sad part about it All I have learned is to cheat play in area 51. Thats not good!!! Have a nice day enjoy your weekend and if you go to church easter sunday repent to the lord and tell the good man up stairs Andy,s right I ve been playing in area 51 I've been a bad boy!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielsen Motorsports Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 The way the rules lay out you can build alot of horsepower with a two barrell without cheating, there really isnt any need to. So dont start assuming winners are cheaters. I know several including myself that jump out of their broken car and win in a loaner car. Facts are winners will always win regardless of rules in any class. The topic of this discussion is changing rules in mid season and if its even neccessary. I have friends flat out tell me they are cheating just to try to keep up. My answer is experience is worth more horsepower then you can possible build and if your really good nobody will know exactly how fast you really are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigdogracing777 Posted April 22, 2011 Report Share Posted April 22, 2011 The way the rules lay out you can build alot of horsepower with a two barrell without cheating, there really isnt any need to. So dont start assuming winners are cheaters. I know several including myself that jump out of their broken car and win in a loaner car. Facts are winners will always win regardless of rules in any class. The topic of this discussion is changing rules in mid season and if its even neccessary. I have friends flat out tell me they are cheating just to try to keep up. My answer is experience is worth more horsepower then you can possible build and if your really good nobody will know exactly how fast you really are! I'm not assuming anything. If you can drive you can win with out playing in area 51 or cheating I can tell you from experience Don't teach a little one to cheat now just think what will happen later as in well you figure it out. Now I'm not acussing anyone of anything So don't incrimante yourself with a reply just read the thread and enjoy it. All I wanted was to make a point no blame game on anyone just a simple fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 The way the rules lay out you can build alot of horsepower with a two barrell without cheating, there really isnt any need to. So dont start assuming winners are cheaters. I know several including myself that jump out of their broken car and win in a loaner car. Facts are winners will always win regardless of rules in any class. The topic of this discussion is changing rules in mid season and if its even neccessary. I have friends flat out tell me they are cheating just to try to keep up. My answer is experience is worth more horsepower then you can possible build and if your really good nobody will know exactly how fast you really are! I'm not assuming anything. If you can drive you can win with out playing in area 51 or cheating I can tell you from experience Don't teach a little one to cheat now just think what will happen later as in well you figure it out. Now I'm not acussing anyone of anything So don't incrimante yourself with a reply just read the thread and enjoy it. All I wanted was to make a point no blame game on anyone just a simple fact. wow i cant believe this has gone back to me. Iwould like to think you danielson i have been watching this since yesterday and i have to agree that you know what your talking about. For as area 51 canceled im still calling it grey areas and for all this saying nobody wants to race bc of people that run the grey areas, well how bout when you win a race on top of that finally finish one and all yall haters call them a cheater. It took a phone call from jim to even make me think about coming back. So thank you jim and i will be back and for the rest of yall i will take your 500 dollars and get me a nice dance out of it. Im glad yall were all there to help me build my motor and who ever said i was playin in the grey areas. So help a single guy out and tear me down. thanks have a goood day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielsen Motorsports Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 I hear that dude $500 on top of first place makes me real happy and a long ride home alot shorter. Plus thats tax free too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan68 Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 wow i cant believe this has gone back to me. Iwould like to think you danielson i have been watching this since yesterday and i have to agree that you know what your talking about. For as area 51 canceled im still calling it grey areas and for all this saying nobody wants to race bc of people that run the grey areas, well how bout when you win a race on top of that finally finish one and all yall haters call them a cheater. It took a phone call from jim to even make me think about coming back. So thank you jim and i will be back and for the rest of yall i will take your 500 dollars and get me a nice dance out of it. Im glad yall were all there to help me build my motor and who ever said i was playin in the grey areas. So help a single guy out and tear me down. thanks have a goood day what kind of dance you talking about hope you dont waste all that five hundred you might use it to get your self out the grey areas lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer027 Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 what kind of dance you talking about hope you dont waste all that five hundred you might use it to get your self out the grey areas lol hopefully rain dance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan68 Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 rain dance??what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimScribellito Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 HOLY COW my kids are here for a week and this thing has blown up on me. THE RULES AT SOS WILL STAND AS WRITTEN TILL THE END OF THE 2011 SEASON. Now lets talk about the color GREY, it is very apparent that the wording in a set of rules is very critical. The farm trucks are my creation and the rules are written stock. They were ment to mean stock from factory as sold. My farm truck rules don't say that exactly as written unwilling to change rules in the middle of the season I will rewrite specific wording to make the grey area become more black and white. Thank you JIM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerguy8811 Posted April 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 All this was started for was for one simple person to say yes or no! Not for every one to rant and rave about their opinions. But instead it turned out I should have made a simple phone call. I know from now on that i won't post anything like this again for every one to answer with their opinions. See you all at a track nearby. If not ill just take my racing somewhere else. Seems to me there are a bunch of whiners around this area. Have fun and be safe! And jim thanks for the answer. No rule changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielsen Motorsports Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 May not have been a bunch of rat and raving it the correct information would have been put out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 I wish I had $10 for every time I've posted that folks should contact the track instead of bringing up issues that need to be answered by the track instead of by well-meaning folks (and some not so well-meaning folks). But I thought this thread (for the most part) was done with a good intention by many. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer027 Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 All this was started for was for one simple person to say yes or no! Not for every one to rant and rave about their opinions. But instead it turned out I should have made a simple phone call. I know from now on that i won't post anything like this again for every one to answer with their opinions. See you all at a track nearby. If not ill just take my racing somewhere else. Seems to me there are a bunch of whiners around this area. Have fun and be safe! And jim thanks for the answer. No rule changes. looks like the pot calling kettle black right you seem to be the one (whinning )as you stated i only seen a few post here stating not going to race or taking my racing somewhere else you knew rules when you built a car if not they were posted i have a truck and building a car when i started rules said no standard i was half way done so i pushed it to pasture stopped working on it after going to the races i seen a few standards racing with simple phone call talked to jim met him at track he said class was built for stock purpose standard is fine he had a couple trucks that were standard he would correct rules it was misprint he didnt catch that thanks for letting him know so i finished truck now i'm building car need motor and trans i could dump thousands into motor no worry but would it be fair no i could put motor in a friend offered no its not legal to rules if i would i would run racers away from this class so i wait untill i have time and do by rules now when i have concerns i take it to jim first to resolve then i post here for others to comment on its a forum my post stated on farm trucks about stock class this being said that means as others stated if it didnt come from factory on motor cant use its simple 350 parts on 350 305 0n 305 302 0n 302 so on so on i know it did not explain 350 on 350 that is purestock but stock is stock dont make a shit what else people find hell i can look at rules and get somoone who is good engine builder build me a hell of motor that will pull vacuum and meet vacuum rule without lots of machine work to block or heads so on i have stock engine and pull 16" vacuum i know several has said no way well sorry to say yes dont know cause of such low vacuum but i bet the one that knows motors could figure out why also after pricing engines from chevy with rules on purestock that motor specs calls for just around 16" vacuum also so yes if i would put big cam with larger lobe seperation and rhoads lifters adjustable timing i could build a motor that would pull 17-19" vacuum and still be legal but wouldnt be stock to rules and do port polishing and all tricks i chose not to what bothers me about this is you threaten to race somewhere else if rule not changed what a sport right you didnt here me when it was stated that was grey area no rules on it i didnt comment i was gone thats the way it is so if you have a personal issue with my post or have a problem with me making a comment on your post feel free to come talk to me at next race but one thing is be grown up present yourself well and watch what you say i will talk with you about this and anything else one thing want be no whinning on my side how about yours lets talk about this you may even get paid to build me an engine seems like you know alot about engines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danielsen Motorsports Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 I envy IMCA on a couple things. Classes and rules! I may not agree with them all but they are structured and set. Those drivers get a chance to race from track to track where ever they decide that week knowing rules isnt an issue. Here we have 4 tracks with 4 totally different rule packages. IMCA Hobby and if thats not fast enough you got IStocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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