Houston Motorsports Park Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 HMP NASCAR 360 Truck Race Teams, Over the past year, it is no secret that demand for new truck chassis has exceeded supply. HMP has been working to offer a solution to help racers with new, low cost truck chassis. Our goal is to ensure that supply meets demand so that the class can grow at an affordable rate. Upon further review and feedback regarding the PEC chassis design, HMP Race Committee has determined that this design is not comparable to the ARTS design of the trucks currently racing at HMP. Therefore, the PEC chassis design is no longer approved for competition. However, HMP would like to wish PEC the best of luck in their future endeavors. The existing ARTS chassis that has been part of HMP rules will continue to be legal for competition. In addition, there is an approved, updated version of the ARTS chassis design that will also be legal for competition. The updated version of the ARTS chassis is very similar to the existing chassis with some design improvements focused on safety. This chassis is available for purchase from 360 Motorsports as an approved, serialized chassis. In addition, any chassis builder may build the updated version of the ARTS chassis design with pre-approval from HMP Tech Director, Jack Sandefur. Please see the updated 2011 HMP NASCAR Truck rules for more details and contact HMP Tech Director, Jack Sandefur at 512-281-5489 with any questions. The updated 2011 NASCAR 360 Truck rules can be found by clicking the following link: 2011 NASCAR 360 TRUCK RULES HMP is also in discussions with a few well known, reputable chassis builders capable of mass producing this design at low cost. Once again, our goal is to offer solutions to meet the current demand for trucks. Thank you for all your support and constructive feedback. It is greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 It seems like the older ARTS chassis should be able to do the things that the new version is doing such as the driver leg bar and the X passenger door bars. Is that the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow6 Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Yellow 6 built our new truck to the rules that were posted. I hope they have not changed. I can't get the rules to pull up from that link.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
looneedude Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 There are alot of "truck" (metric frame) classes through out the country from irwindale to maine and many places in between including HMP. ARTS has been defunct for close to 10 years and have not produced a "truck" chassis since then. i've seen one of those PEC chassis and HMP made the right move there. Once ARTS was gone a spin off series named all star race trucks more or less made a go, which still some what exsit in the north east but does not produce chassis. this means that most of the trucks are atleast 10 years old. during the years that ARTS built chassis they made many changes to there design. Cage desgin, front shock location, rear spring pocket heights front bay bars where just a few changes. At the very end of production they where introducing an "off set" cage chassis there where only a few but they where serialized and dont even come close to the illustrations deemed legal. i see the effort put forth by hmp and tech to keep a level playing feild and appluad there effort. the 360 motorsport nascar truck class seems to have the most interest of all classes at hmp. most of this can be credited to jim beasly for is efforts to support the class. i had the privilege to drive for jim during the 2009 season and getting him his first win as an owner in 2010. he had many great ideas for the truck class which a lot have been put into place. but not nearly all of them. and trust me that him sponsoring the class dosent give him or his race cars any special treatment in tech (if you dont belive me just look at the dqs for 2010 bryan, mark and hanna all got dqed one of which should not have been a dq btw) i have since moved on from driving duties at 360 motorsports, but still race in the class. due to finacial reasons i wasnt able to attend as many races as i wanted in 2010. I do plan on running for the points championship in the 2011 season with the woodlands automotive and performance #76 truck. furthermore the weekly purse and points championship money are the best i have been able to find in the entire United States of America for any saturday night short track truck class. heres the part i dont understand : the rules are telling guys from other tracks that they are not allowed or welcome. lanier, gresham hunstville, ocala, new symerna and sereral other tracks have a truck class very simlar to HMP. there chassis rules have been updated to todays times, not relying on a company that hasnt been around for nearly 10 years. or one that just started. in my opinion if a "chassis" is of perimeter type and the welds look good the saftey equipment is up to par and it is a g body metric frame with all the pick up points in the correct location then it should be allowed weither it was built in 1995 by ARTS in 2008 by pearson built by john smith in his garage last winter or gerald boyd three weeks before the current season. a maximum set back could or should be set in place. after that there are weight rules in place. at 2900 pounds there is no reason you can cant obtain the percenatges you desire. at 2900 lbs 1% is only 29 lbs ive seen drivers from less that 100 lbs to well over 300 lbs so thats up to 10%. the complaint i have heard is that an ARTS chassis cant get the 45% rear weight. all three trucks that i have been involved with had no problem getting the 45% rear(full of fuel) it was a little harder getting the left but was able to get there. I've also heard that if every joe blow out there starts builing there own trucks they will get out of hand. but hows that by having too many trucks. what a great problem. you also cant call up port city or left hander and order a pure stock or metric frame pro truck. the rear wieght rule is a great rule for the trucks it really puts it back in the drivers hands and of course it still boils down to the guys willing to work harder smarter and longer than any body else. one of the reason i like racing so much: no such thing as a tie. some one wins period. the way i look at the trucks is that its the blue collar latemodel. i can build a a rolling chassis for a third of the cost of a bare "new" chassis but of cousre i dont count my labor i know that not everybody has the means to build a race car and they purchase them instead. just my 2 pennies lynn hardy jr driver of: sonnys locksmith service/ auto interior specailist #70 pro stock, woodlands automotive and performance #76 nascar 360 pro truck, united auto transport/ auto interior specailist #31 cricket pro late model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firemdk Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 It seems like the older ARTS chassis should be able to do the things that the new version is doing such as the driver leg bar and the X passenger door bars. Is that the case? I went and looked at that new truck yesterday and I think there are a few things it would be nice to do like the rear hoop, the down bars off the drivers doors and the x bar on the right side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 self-edited......contacted HMP directly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KISS_Racing Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Wow.... After I took so much heat for having ideas for safety based off how the rules are in Florida(Ok plus the fact I didn't race my truck) Now people want to make changes.... Folks, between WCPT and the trucks in Florida there are some good safety mods that need to be done. The bar behind the seat is the first one I would make. The down tube between roof(top) halo and floor is another mod. Passenger side bar as well as thicker plate on drivers door are two more... These are safety and structural issues. If it cost money and you don't want to spend it, then you have no business racing. These improvements could save your(oops!)..... Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3Motorsports Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 I don't believe anyone would have an issue with making the trucks safer but this continuous change of chassis dimensions when the season starts in 1 months is not fair to those trying to build or obtain a truck. The PEC chassis wasn't safe and would've bent as soon as it was touched in the rear. The rules are somewhat frustrating because the new chassis allow further cage set back than the ARTS. Plus this is the second set of rules in which the overall dimensions don't match the multiple dimensions making up the overall dims. I believe the safety innovations should have and have been incorporated into the ARTS style chassis. What needs to be avoided is wanting everyone to mass purchase your truck from one manufacture. We've seen the success of those classes and they are hurting for car counts. Allowing cage set backs of 3"-4" over the ARTS style chassis is not good for the current chassis making up the class. Never put your current competitors behind the by allowing a different style chassis into the class this late into the game. At the end of the day we want people to join the class, the OEM pick-up points are what makes this class affordable and competitive. Tech the suspension points hard and keep the chassis all similar no matter who builds it and you will have a growing and prosperous class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legfixr Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 As a newcomer and inexperienced I enjoy all the info and discussion. I have a arts chassis and also look forward to finishing better in the 2011 season. Money of course is always a factor and keeping it affordable and making sure that money isn"t the key to winning is also impotant. Safety however should not be compromised. A simple way of thinking about it is $10 helmets go on $10 heads. if Hmp would seperate out wha is changing for safety and what is changing for the adancement of the class and availability of product. Then give at least a 1 year advanced notice. this way people would know that in 1 year or 2 years they can upgrade to a race car that may have some advantages or be more available or they can stay where they are at. who knows maybe there would be 2 TRUCK CLASSES. one allowing quick change rears and a tube chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firemdk Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 As a newcomer and inexperienced I enjoy all the info and discussion. I have a arts chassis and also look forward to finishing better in the 2011 season. Money of course is always a factor and keeping it affordable and making sure that money isn"t the key to winning is also impotant. Safety however should not be compromised. A simple way of thinking about it is $10 helmets go on $10 heads. if Hmp would seperate out wha is changing for safety and what is changing for the adancement of the class and availability of product. Then give at least a 1 year advanced notice. this way people would know that in 1 year or 2 years they can upgrade to a race car that may have some advantages or be more available or they can stay where they are at. who knows maybe there would be 2 TRUCK CLASSES. one allowing quick change rears and a tube chassis. that's a heck of an idea actually. Think about the tracks that run a hobby stock and a street stock. They both look the same just one is less advanced as the other. In the truck class have a pro truck and a super truck class. I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Moon Motorsports Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 As a newcomer and inexperienced I enjoy all the info and discussion. I have a arts chassis and also look forward to finishing better in the 2011 season. Money of course is always a factor and keeping it affordable and making sure that money isn"t the key to winning is also impotant. Safety however should not be compromised. A simple way of thinking about it is $10 helmets go on $10 heads. if Hmp would seperate out wha is changing for safety and what is changing for the adancement of the class and availability of product. Then give at least a 1 year advanced notice. this way people would know that in 1 year or 2 years they can upgrade to a race car that may have some advantages or be more available or they can stay where they are at. who knows maybe there would be 2 TRUCK CLASSES. one allowing quick change rears and a tube chassis. that's a heck of an idea actually. Think about the tracks that run a hobby stock and a street stock. They both look the same just one is less advanced as the other. In the truck class have a pro truck and a super truck class. I like it. Good way to kill the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
termite#99 Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Wow.... After I took so much heat for having ideas for safety based off how the rules are in Florida(Ok plus the fact I didn't race my truck) Now people want to make changes.... Folks, between WCPT and the trucks in Florida there are some good safety mods that need to be done. The bar behind the seat is the first one I would make. The down tube between roof(top) halo and floor is another mod. Passenger side bar as well as thicker plate on drivers door are two more... These are safety and structural issues. If it cost money and you don't want to spend it, then you have no business racing. These improvements could save your(oops!)..... Mark Mark, everything you just described is built into an ARTS chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow6 Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Our new truck is built to the 2011 HMP rules. It is not a ARTS Truck and we did work hard to finish it and I will get with Jack as soon as I can to look over the Truck. It is real close to ARTS chassis but it is not a look a like due to the measurements I took of the # 10 truck and my old # 6 truck. They are both ARTS chassies with #'s 1100's to #1700's on the serial #. They both have problems with the exact measurements of the diagram in the HMP rules in regards to the roll cage. Our cage meets the HMP rules with even greater safety in mind (Me). We put 1.75 DOM .104 wall in cage. Our new truck meets the existing rules but I am sure scared of all the blood, sweat and tears we have put into this project. I hope the rules stay the way they were written. You are right you just can't go out and buy a chassie and they will be very expensive. If yall remember in 2009 a few USST Trucks came to HMP and I had second or third quick time to a way more advanced trucks (all tube chassie, 4 barrel carb., ten inch rims, big rubber, 4 link rearends, bigger motors, etc.). The race got rained out but I was within .10 of the big fast truck out of the six or so USST Trucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundogC3 Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Self edit. I'm looking forward to seeing one of these "NEW" chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
looneedude Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 With all due respect Gunnar how would the current trucks be behind the 8 ball? if the roll cage was 10 inches lower and offset to the left i could see a problem or if the suspenion pick up points where where moved, or rear shocks relocated. but nobodys asking for that or considering it. ARTS does not exist any more period. Most of the florida pro trucks and other metric frame trucks are very close to the ARTS chassis. nobodys looking to reinvent the wheel or obtain some big advantage. The trucks are back!!! and it looks like with all the people interested in a class that is fun, less expensive then most, and very competitve, that there is going to be a demand for chassis. You just cant use a company that no longer produces your product that would be just plain stupid. if the 99 truck was to need a front clip and you fixed it (you sure cant send it ARTS) but you moved a front bay bar down bar support to make it easier to remove your headers would that make it now illegal? of course it shouldn't. A little racing common sense should be used in this case. a friend of mine purchased a truck they where told it was an ARTS chassis drove to michgan to pick it up brought it back to texas. when i looked it over i saw that it was not an ARTS truck but an ARTS copy. The chassis was very similar and to some one who doesnt know what to look for they would call it an ARTS. granted there are still alot of ARTS chassis still out there but guys selling them sell them complete, or bent, or with the wrong motor, or with the rear wedge bolts moved or with a quick change rear end. Most racers just want options. The other concern is just like D.L. pointed out: thousands of dollars, alot of time, effort, loss of sleep, time away from family or friends, thousands of dollars, we dont wont to be told "well i dont really like the way you did that, i cant see any advantage but i just dont like it so you cant race" Like I said no ones trying to reinvent the wheel just options....no way to two classes that look the same.!!!!!!! like him or not John at HMP has the perfect line up no cars look the same and not too many classes. fans get confused if there are two or more classes that look the same. i not even a big fan of having limited mods and full blown mods running the same show. another 3 pennies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
360MotorSports Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 360 Motorsports is proud to be affiliated with HMP, as well as producing a Nascar 360 Truck chassis. Tomorrow, January 15th we invite everyone to come out and visit our location and view firsthand one of the three truck chassis in production. The new chassis seems to be well received and we are honored to work with HMP on this new chassis design. Our store will be open tomorrow from 10:00am - 5:00pm with some great door prizes being given away, great gumbo served at lunch and even the Grand Prize drawing of a Nascar 360 Truck to one lucky customer. We do want everyone to understand that the truck chassis are not easy to find these days, so this new design was imminent. Therefore, we all will trust our very capable tech personnel at HMP to work with all of us to continue growing the truck class. 360 Motorsports 15832 W. Hardy Rd. Ste #670 Houston, TX 77060 281-999-RACE (7223) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston Motorsports Park Posted January 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 The sky is not falling. HMP and 360 Motorsports are dedicated to the thriving success of the NASCAR 360 trucks and understand the importance of fair competition. Everyone involved with developing and implementing the new chassis agrees that should it prove to have a significant performance advantage, it will add weight quicker than starving pig stuck in a corn silo. With that being said, it would also be unfair to compare any new chassis of either design to one that is 10 years old and had more hits than Elvis. Someone mentioned that not too many years ago, there were only about 8 trucks at any given race. The growth of the trucks is in large part due to 360 Motorsports very generous sponsorship over the past few years. Rather than worry that the sky is falling, let's have a little respect and appreciation for 360 Motorsports passion to help move the class forward. Without their support, the trucks would be racing for trophies or not at all. I am going to ask everyone to have a little faith, a little trust, and a little patience. I promise the sky will not fall. Let's let this thread die and focus on getting ready for our best year yet. Sincerely, John Mandabach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firemdk Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 I personally feel that it's going to be a great year. I've never been as excited about a season starting up and I think everyone both racers and not have to thank the folks at HMP and their partners for what they do to give us a place to race and for spectators to come out for some very affordable family fun. ' Here's to a tremendous 2011 season with some serious side by side racing in all divisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97car Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 What happened to giving a chassis diagram with the size and wall thickness and type tubing, location and height dimensions instead of this spec chassis that too many have gone to over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3Motorsports Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 In racing today the answer is always.....just add more weight and that will fix it. Its the popualr answer in all forms of racing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer61 Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 In racing today the answer is always.....just add more weight and that will fix it. Its the popualr answer in all forms of racing... This sounds familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Moon Motorsports Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 2011 is going to be an AWESOME year for the NASCAR Trucks!! Just FYI, if anyone needs a driver....I AM AVAILABLE!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firemdk Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollercam Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 they need to tech these trucks like the do a modified, pro stock or late model. You don't see a tech person looking at a late model telling the owner that a certain bar is off 1/4" and he'll hav to cut it out. they poke their head in and make sure there is padding around the driver. They look at the cage welds to make sure their safe. The put it on the template to make sure that the body is set on right and they scale the car. Pro Stocks and Modifides do about the same thing. What is it with these trucks where we're so concerned about bar placement and ARTS chassis I think we're spending more time than we need to on this. Roll the truck into tech, look and make sure body is 4" off the ground and the rear deck lid is 40". Check the track width and the wheel base. Make sure that you don't see any illegal parts and that the welds on the cage look like professional welds. Scale the truck and if it's meets the parameters then put the sticker on the windshild and roll it along. We're trying to tech these trucks like a Nascar Nationwide Series car becuase they don't even tech the Campingworld Trucks like this. Let's get back to basics y'all and have a good season. I COULDN'T AGREE MORE!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 they need to tech these trucks like the do a modified, pro stock or late model. You don't see a tech person looking at a late model telling the owner that a certain bar is off 1/4" and he'll hav to cut it out. they poke their head in and make sure there is padding around the driver. They look at the cage welds to make sure their safe. The put it on the template to make sure that the body is set on right and they scale the car. Pro Stocks and Modifides do about the same thing. What is it with these trucks where we're so concerned about bar placement and ARTS chassis I think we're spending more time than we need to on this. Roll the truck into tech, look and make sure body is 4" off the ground and the rear deck lid is 40". Check the track width and the wheel base. Make sure that you don't see any illegal parts and that the welds on the cage look like professional welds. Scale the truck and if it's meets the parameters then put the sticker on the windshild and roll it along. We're trying to tech these trucks like a Nascar Nationwide Series car becuase they don't even tech the Campingworld Trucks like this. Let's get back to basics y'all and have a good season. Have you actually been at the track to observe this happening to the trucks? We were in the tech garage quite a bit last year, and I never observed any haggling about bars being 1/4" off. Not saying it never happened, but I never saw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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