texaswicked Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 I wanted to set the Hoosier Tire situation straight and if someone wants to comment over there then they can. On the Texana forum over there it seems everyone is insenuating that Hoosier has done away with the hard tire and is only selling the soft tire, that is INCORRECT! I spoke with Shannon Rush in Lakeville Indiana, he is in charge of the dirt tire division of Hoosier Tire Manufacturing. He is not a sales rep at some dealership. He specifically told me that Hoosier now differt Hoosier 500's for the Limited Modifieds. 2 of these tires are identical in compound and tread design, one is stamped IMCA and one is just Hoosier 500. The 3rd tire is a Hoosier 500 also but it has a slightly different tread design and is extremely soft. With all that being said please put this misconception of Hoosier only having this soft tire to bed. They will always have the Hard compound tire it will NEVER GO AWAY! So the blaming the Tire Manufacturer for messing the tire deal up is not necessarily correct. I wanted to blame them as well but it is the promoters jobs to choose the tire properly now that there is choices. I do not allow the soft tire at STS becuase it will simply cost the racers alot more MONEY. There is absolutely nothing wrong with running the tire we and all tracks have always run. The intent of the South Texas Modified Championship series was to have 3 or more tracks run the same rules and from DAY 1 when the rules were generated EVERYONE knew what tire was supposed to be run, Since some have tried to cheat the system and buy a new tire everyone has to suffer and the series is struggling. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMR 175 Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I wanted to set the Hoosier Tire situation straight and if someone wants to comment over there then they can. On the Texana forum over there it seems everyone is insenuating that Hoosier has done away with the hard tire and is only selling the soft tire, that is INCORRECT! I spoke with Shannon Rush in Lakeville Indiana, he is in charge of the dirt tire division of Hoosier Tire Manufacturing. He is not a sales rep at some dealership. He specifically told me that Hoosier now differt Hoosier 500's for the Limited Modifieds. 2 of these tires are identical in compound and tread design, one is stamped IMCA and one is just Hoosier 500. The 3rd tire is a Hoosier 500 also but it has a slightly different tread design and is extremely soft. With all that being said please put this misconception of Hoosier only having this soft tire to bed. They will always have the Hard compound tire it will NEVER GO AWAY! So the blaming the Tire Manufacturer for messing the tire deal up is not necessarily correct. I wanted to blame them as well but it is the promoters jobs to choose the tire properly now that there is choices. I do not allow the soft tire at STS becuase it will simply cost the racers alot more MONEY. There is absolutely nothing wrong with running the tire we and all tracks have always run. The intent of the South Texas Modified Championship series was to have 3 or more tracks run the same rules and from DAY 1 when the rules were generated EVERYONE knew what tire was supposed to be run, Since some have tried to cheat the system and buy a new tire everyone has to suffer and the series is struggling. . Now I will have to say something about these tires. I as an owner have purchased the Hoosier 500's (softer tire) which is like the American Racer tire. When I drove my car, and now that Mickey Helms drives my car for me we have tested all the tires mentioned by me and others. I have to disagree with you on the fact the drivers will spend more money because of a "softer" tire. Since we have been allowed to use the softer tires we have spent LESS on tires not more, I am like most and thought that the softer the tire, the faster it's going to wear out. This is not true and the softer AR's are even cheaper to buy for the teams. I understand that rules are rules, but this tire deal is getting out of hand. I think we have all had our say, now we should let the track promoters hash this out. Texana, Shady Oaks, and STS are not sanctioned tracks so I think there should be no reason why maybe in the future they all cannot have basically the same set of rules so we can run at all 3 tracks. :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMR21 Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I wanted to set the Hoosier Tire situation straight and if someone wants to comment over there then they can. On the Texana forum over there it seems everyone is insenuating that Hoosier has done away with the hard tire and is only selling the soft tire, that is INCORRECT! I spoke with Shannon Rush in Lakeville Indiana, he is in charge of the dirt tire division of Hoosier Tire Manufacturing. He is not a sales rep at some dealership. He specifically told me that Hoosier now differt Hoosier 500's for the Limited Modifieds. 2 of these tires are identical in compound and tread design, one is stamped IMCA and one is just Hoosier 500. The 3rd tire is a Hoosier 500 also but it has a slightly different tread design and is extremely soft. With all that being said please put this misconception of Hoosier only having this soft tire to bed. They will always have the Hard compound tire it will NEVER GO AWAY! So the blaming the Tire Manufacturer for messing the tire deal up is not necessarily correct. I wanted to blame them as well but it is the promoters jobs to choose the tire properly now that there is choices. I do not allow the soft tire at STS becuase it will simply cost the racers alot more MONEY. There is absolutely nothing wrong with running the tire we and all tracks have always run. The intent of the South Texas Modified Championship series was to have 3 or more tracks run the same rules and from DAY 1 when the rules were generated EVERYONE knew what tire was supposed to be run, Since some have tried to cheat the system and buy a new tire everyone has to suffer and the series is struggling. . There was no insinuation, that was the information given to numerous people from the people at Hoosier Southwest, who is the Hoosier distributor for this area of the country. We could only pass on information as correctly given to us as we can get it. NO Hoosier dealers deal directly with Indiana. So dont start any finger pointing please. We were told that the hard Hoosier was to be discontinued and that there would only be two sportmod tires in the line up. Our only mistake was trusting the suppliers word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top_shelf_12 Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 So here is the main question I'm thinking, the point of the Limited/Sport Mod class is to be fast but keep it within the realm of affordability, correct? So here is the issue I'm thinking just from the fans standpoint, which tire is the most affordable, but also offers durability and reliability? Obviously if one of you limited drivers are going to try to win the championship for this series you're going to have to travel to another track so finding any way to make it more affordable seems to be the way to choose the tire. Granted I don't think you should put a Sprint Car tire on a modified but which tire gives you the most bang for your buck? Maybe I say this as a homer but I'd still like to see the Corpus guys go to Edna and SA because I think from top to bottom we have the best modified drivers in the area (not to say there are not good ones anywhere else). I'd like to see the CC guys with their 'old' Hoosiers go up to Edna and prove to everyone that they can still win even on an "inferior" tire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LM-RACER-20 Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I love it when someone says you are CHEATING the system. The rules say HOSSIER 500. It does not say HARD - SOFT or otherwise. So there is no skirting the rules. My tires say Hoosier 500 which abides by the rule. Or why doesnt Hoosier tag them 500S instead of just 500? Seems pretty simple to me. I understand the arguement, but it's not skirting rules. Most of the time the ones that dont like it are the ones that cant afford to buy the new part. So they are the ones to step up and yell about it. I understand this completely. In the past I could never afford to keep up when I ran asphalt. So I know how these guys feel. With that said, there are tons of gray areas in car rules in most classes and most tracks. I might be able to list about 25-50 in the sportmod rules alone. Rules should be well thought out and reviewed by a good outside source like a couple of good race teams. The teams are the ones to find those areas. Then they can be fixed and posted. So I hope this can be figured out since I would like the chance to race against some of these guys from other tracks one day and have a big field. That would be a great learning experience for me. Good luck to the tracks and promoters with everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMR 175 Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Thank You LM-RACER, that was a fine reply....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMR21 Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 So here is the main question I'm thinking, the point of the Limited/Sport Mod class is to be fast but keep it within the realm of affordability, correct? So here is the issue I'm thinking just from the fans standpoint, which tire is the most affordable, but also offers durability and reliability? Obviously if one of you limited drivers are going to try to win the championship for this series you're going to have to travel to another track so finding any way to make it more affordable seems to be the way to choose the tire. Granted I don't think you should put a Sprint Car tire on a modified but which tire gives you the most bang for your buck? Maybe I say this as a homer but I'd still like to see the Corpus guys go to Edna and SA because I think from top to bottom we have the best modified drivers in the area (not to say there are not good ones anywhere else). I'd like to see the CC guys with their 'old' Hoosiers go up to Edna and prove to everyone that they can still win even on an "inferior" tire. IMCA stamped Hooosier tire= $92 Old hard Hoosier 500 = $85 New 500 = $85 AR 500 = $80 Not counting shipping or tax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirthammer Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 These types of differing opinions is why IMCA is the oldest and largest sanctioning race club in the US. Their rules are more black and white than gray. This post is not intended to open back up the IMCA "can of worms". But just remember that it was IMCA that started the explosion of popularity for the Sport mod class. The idea was as you know to have a more affordable class of Modified style racing. No mater how fair the rules are, the amount of money you have to spend on your car will always play some factor in the outcome of where you finish. The amount of money in question in the difference in prices in the tires is nothing compared to the difference in price of the quality of parts that is spent on other areas of the Limited Mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arob Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I would think since this new tire did not exist at the time the rules were posted it would not be a legal tire.The legal tire would be the one that was availiable at the time the rules were posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirthammer Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I would think since this new tire did not exist at the time the rules were posted it would not be a legal tire.The legal tire would be the one that was availiable at the time the rules were posted. If you think that the tires give you an advantage then go buy some. Believe me that if there is a tire that is allowed and they do have an advantage then the weekly front runners that are showing up to win will have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top_shelf_12 Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 Think that was the point. Some of the drivers did think the tires that were already owned were the legal tire then Hoosier came out with this new one so now the other drivers may be thinking they have to buy yet another set of tires. Have these new tires been used yet before or not? The implication that I'm getting is that some of the limited mod teams just got them. I've already said somewhere that I'd like to see the CC guys go up there and compete anyways regardless of the tire. Also, the Edna guys already agreed to not use their AR tires now there is another set of "cheater" tires? I don't know where the CC guys get their tires from but I would assume they had the same chances as the Edna guys to buy the new Hoosiers. Dirthammer, I wouldn't know if the tires have any advantage over each other, I've only been on one side of the fence. Based on what I've gathered, a softer compound will typically give you more grip but deteriorate faster. But after reading your post I came up with my question of have these new tires been put to the test against the old ones. Who knows, maybe the new Hoosiers will be disasters and won't work as well as the old ones. Guess that would all depend on the driving styles and the way the track is at any given moment. The tires are the same cost roughly but now the question is, does one have an advantage over the other one? If I could afford a car, I would have just shut up and raced anyways, but that's just my perspective. If I beat you while you drove on the new Hoosiers and I had the older ones then that would make it that much sweeter but if I lost to you, I know I gave you everything I had and either know you were the better driver that night or think, damn I need to get some new tires to stay competitive in this series. Again jmo and it's easy for me to say that since I only spend maybe $50-100 for a weekend in Edna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMR 175 Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Think that was the point. Some of the drivers did think the tires that were already owned were the legal tire then Hoosier came out with this new one so now the other drivers may be thinking they have to buy yet another set of tires. Have these new tires been used yet before or not? The implication that I'm getting is that some of the limited mod teams just got them. I've already said somewhere that I'd like to see the CC guys go up there and compete anyways regardless of the tire. Also, the Edna guys already agreed to not use their AR tires now there is another set of "cheater" tires? I don't know where the CC guys get their tires from but I would assume they had the same chances as the Edna guys to buy the new Hoosiers. Dirthammer, I wouldn't know if the tires have any advantage over each other, I've only been on one side of the fence. Based on what I've gathered, a softer compound will typically give you more grip but deteriorate faster. But after reading your post I came up with my question of have these new tires been put to the test against the old ones. Who knows, maybe the new Hoosiers will be disasters and won't work as well as the old ones. Guess that would all depend on the driving styles and the way the track is at any given moment. The tires are the same cost roughly but now the question is, does one have an advantage over the other one? If I could afford a car, I would have just shut up and raced anyways, but that's just my perspective. If I beat you while you drove on the new Hoosiers and I had the older ones then that would make it that much sweeter but if I lost to you, I know I gave you everything I had and either know you were the better driver that night or think, damn I need to get some new tires to stay competitive in this series. Again jmo and it's easy for me to say that since I only spend maybe $50-100 for a weekend in Edna. Well I personally think the "new" hoosiers SUCK! We ran them last night and they wear different as well as get extremely hot and wear allot quicker than the AR's or the "older" harder Hoosiers. Also the tires I saw not only on my car, but also on other cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top_shelf_12 Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Yeah from the stands we couldn't tell any distinctive advantage either. I always thought that a softer tire would give you more grip but burn out quicker. Edna seems to have a dry slick setup, at least the two or three times we've been there so I would rather run the older tire or one with a harder compound. STS is almost always dry slick too so i would think a harder tire would work better here too but I'm just a fan. We actually followed one of your cars into the track last night so we were kinda bummed you guys had a tough night. You had nowhere to go in the feature though. New tire or not, don't think anyone had anything for Hoeffling or White, those two took off and put on a hell of a race in the Sport mods. Just hope now the rest of the Sportmod guys realize that they can run with the softer hoosiers and may have an advantage as far as tires go. It seems that the AR is the best tire but since STS doesn't allow them and Edna agreed to allow the Hoosiers, the hard Hoosier 500 may be the way to go, at least during the Championship series but for the tracks that allow the ARs they will probably be the tire of choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 That was the same concensus that I got from a few racers, and tires I was able to look at. The new softer 500's may be nice and grippy, but they're obviously not going last long on our dry slick tracks. Looks like the IMCA/hard 500 "hockey pucks" are still the best for longevity and cost control, even though they may not provide the added edge grip-wise Hopefully we can put this tire issue to rest and can get back to 40+ car Limited Modified fields for the remainder of the STMCS races.!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top_shelf_12 Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 I agree with you on that Reb, although the two cars in the limited mod race put on a hell of a show. That first event in Corpus was nice when you had 40+ limiteds but even on regular nights, STS has had a few regulars out and dealing with issues on repairs. Hopefully everyone will come out and have fun and make this series work because it is a great idea to have the bragging rights among the South Texas tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosiermamma Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 That was the same concensus that I got from a few racers, and tires I was able to look at. The new softer 500's may be nice and grippy, but they're obviously not going last long on our dry slick tracks. Looks like the IMCA/hard 500 "hockey pucks" are still the best for longevity and cost control, even though they may not provide the added edge grip-wise Hopefully we can put this tire issue to rest and can get back to 40+ car Limited Modified fields for the remainder of the STMCS races.!!! I thought we were talking about racing....just kidding, just glad someone noticed the difference and brought it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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