HMP Pro LateModel Payout

[txtom]

What is your estimated reapair bill on the weekend?

 

I don't know. Eddy can better answer that after the car gets unloaded and the body come off. But the rear frame rails are moved, the fuel cell is moved, the motor is back a half inch, ansd then you have the body, braces, etc, etc.

 

Now, EWR can fix all this in-house; He doesn't pay someone else to fix this stuff.

But I'd estimate a couple thousand, depending on how many body panels will be replaced.

 

But at a hunded dollars a race, we should be able to pay for it by.... say... 2010, if nothing else gets torn up before then.

 

Like that will happen.

[racedude]

I am just jumpiong in here and throwing idea's out and really appreciate this forum as a tool to learn. I am hearing feedback on this board that for these experienced racers like Eddy Wallace and Greg Davidson etc that the major expense in the SLM class vs Pro Late Model class are the motors? Am I understanding that to be the issue? Because reading thru the internet it is my understanding that Mr. MuGunegil designed an "affortable" SLM motor that has been a proven winner that Clay Rogers, Bobby Gill, Casey Smith and many of the CRA guys are running. So if you are as experienced as Eddy Wallace or Greg Davidson why would you buy a Pro Late Model motor and be thrown in a class with a bunch of beginners unless the Speedway offers you one of these motors to jump in and field a car solely to build the class with some top talent. I am going to have to say that from the outside looking in that the Track owners started the class to not to have to pay the purse that the SLM teams travel for and deserve - they can get more racers to jump in get larger car counts still have their drawing cards (Greg, Eddy and whoever else) but don't have to pay them for showing. How many of these inexperienced drivers could or would even make the field of a big SLM event and how many would immediately go to school and learn their spotter be on the stand doing their job or they would lose their car that evening.

[xcellracing]

There you go, 600+ fuel bill looks not so bad if you get to qualify and run heads up around cars your speed and in front of slower cars and behind faster cars. there is always the chance of getting tore up but less likely starting heads up. Plus I think 4th pays more out east right?

[Khoneycutt]

Racedude,

Your are correct, Mcgunnegill does make a spec SLM motor that is very fast. It costs around $16,500, but does not contain the braided lines, tanks, and extra coolers. It also cost much more to maintenance. Dwayne has done an excellent job making the SLM motor more affordable, but it still costs way more than the ctrate engines.

[racedude]

My point is the more experienced drivers ran a SLM or such as Greg switch to run either so they have the lines, coolers etc. How much is a pro late model crate motor? I am just wondering why they would even invest the money to build a class of cars for the track to get nothing but a bunch of torn up parts each night it just seems that they would put their money into what they already had rather than ditching it, starting over, to get in a class where they are developing drivers

[xcellracing]

Racedude what? Pro-latemodel not Rookie-latemodel, developing driving skills is why they have a much cheeper class called the Stock car class or Hobby stocks or whatever they are called at the local tracks. If you havent ever raced before or are new to the class they should put you to the back for like the first 4 races.jmo

[racedude]

Racedude what? Pro-latemodel not Rookie-latemodel, developing driving skills is why they have a much cheeper class called the Stock car class or Hobby stocks or whatever they are called at the local tracks. If you havent ever raced before or are new to the class they should put you to the back for like the first 4 races.jmo

 

I agree but based on what I am reading half the field of Pro Late Model Drivers are from Houston that have very limited skills and are jumping on this class because it is affordable to get in and honing their skills and the more experienced drivers are starting at the back of the field and are getting caught up in these "Rookie" drivers mistakes - especially if a driver in that class gets the brake and gas mixed up. JMO

[landlord]

I think its "stupid" driver mistakes!!!!!!It's guys that either have no talent or just don't give a rats behind about their fellow driver!!!!!!!

[racer61]

I think its "stupid" driver mistakes!!!!!!It's guys that either have no talent or just don't give a rats behind about their fellow driver!!!!!!!

you said it brother, most of the accidents in the SLM class were due to more experienced drivers. Maybe not better, but more experienced.

Hey racedude, I understand your point your making but I think you misunderstand that the majority of the "pro-late models" are SLM's that guys took the dry sump parts out of. Such the case with Greg Davidson. And probably others. Most of those drivers have experience, but even so, at over 100 mph on a short track, when some one in front of you messes up, you dont have much time to avoid them.. Its not like there going that much slower than the SLM's.

 

 

Hey Kirby, How much cheaper is McGunnegil's crate motor from the Spec. motor. When you get down to it, a few thousand for 150-200 hp is pretty common. I remember first meeting you and you told me about the crate class you were running elsewhere. It sounded good but I am not thinking that parking hundreds of cars nationwide was was the enginebuilders had in mind. An article I read in Latemodel Digest (I think) said that over 200 SLM cars had not signed up to compete in '07, by facilities polled. Look Im not trying to knock crates, but why do you think that so many cars dont participate anymore. Maybe no where to go. Its not the cost. Thats an excuse that people are using to justify loosing. If these guys are going to spend over 3000 dollars in a short block for a street stock car they will find a way to spend 20 thousand or more on a SLM. No Folks, The SLM show is gone because the promoters DID listen to ya. Think about that for a while before you guys go complaining because Casey Smith, or Greg Davidson, or Even Mr. Stapp beat your pants off on saturday because "they spent more". The do because they want to. If you dont want to, dont. But quit whining about it. I never spent what the leaders spent on there car. I didnt have it, so I honestly didnt go into a race thinking I was going to be able to compete heads-up with those guys. Im racing what I personally could afford and happy to do it. JMFO.

 

Sorry for the soap box.

[Guest turborice]

Amen Racer61,

These guys screamed for box motors and they got them. The fans went away when the built bullets were denied a place to race. Now that J & S is going to add money to the purse, maybe it will help.

[racedude]

Thanks for helping me understand why the "Pro Late Model Class" was started and why some Texas racers choose this class over the SLM - obviously they thought starting this class would put everyone on level playing field. It would be interesting to poll how many of the racers that switched are "happy" with what they have now.

[landlord]

It's not the motors,it's the drivers and the lack of respect(chivalry)!!!!!!!!!!I guess the "good ole days"are really gone!!!!!!

[racer61]

It's not the motors,it's the drivers and the lack of respect(chivalry)!!!!!!!!!!I guess the "good ole days"are really gone!!!!!!

yup!

[STAGGER77]

Here is my 2 cents for what it's worth, sorry if it offends anyone. The super class went away when they were changing the rules every time the wind changed directions, driving up costs of motors, chassis, bodies, tires and catering to the out of towners rather than supporting the little guy that helped grow the series to the level that it once was. All that said and with 20-40k motors the crate is a good option (which is why the pro-late class started) but with some draw backs as well, with the SML class gone there is a bunch of expensive paper weights lying around. Most guys that ran Romco liked the touring aspect and the glory of what the series was and along with the horsepower. I have always enjoyed HMP but those SML guys no longer get to tour, horsepower droped, racing with rookie drivers (I do understand that everyone has to start somewhere, not trying to knock them) and now with the purse droped it's hard to justify it. Plus even though they are no longer spending the $$ on motors they are spending it on driveline and suspension. Plain and simple "guys with $$ will always spend the $$ no matter what the rules are"

 

JMO

Jason Ray

[CommonSenseRacing]

Plain and simple "guys with $$ will always spend the $$ no matter what the rules are"

 

That's RACING 101

[Khoneycutt]

Racer 61 I think you have me confused with someone else. I have never raced off somewhere else out of state. I hope to try that soon. McGunnegill has a website with his prices for all his engines. I do not want to mis quote one of his prices on the motors. I know the Chevy I purchased from HMP was approximatley $6,000 with Carb and another $1,500 for parts.

[Truck99]

Think about that for a while before you guys go complaining because Casey Smith, or Greg Davidson, or Even Mr. Stapp beat your pants off on saturday because "they spent more". The do because they want to.

 

The amazing thing is that we actually don't...spend more that is. You'd be amazed at the limited budget we race on. People assume we outspend our competition, but knowing what we do really spend compared to what others claim to spend, we actually underspend (is that a word) most of them. I just spend a ton of time trying to learn how to make the car handle, and Cary is amazing behind the wheel.

 

You made some good points Cory, I just didn't want to perpetuate the common assumption that the winners are always spending more. Sometimes they are, but sometimes not.

[KC11]

Let me ask a question. How many SLM's were running in the last few years of the series in Texas(Romco or USRA) not counting the TMS event?. I recall my last SLM race having about 14 cars and 10 finishing.

I finished 5th and lost about $500 after the purse money. And yes, I still have one of those expensive paper weights in the garage for sale cheap. The SLM class was dying before the crates ever even took of in the south.

I would love to race for a purse but if it means that the track paying a purse equals the track closing I would rather race for no money than not race at all.

We have already lost San Antonio and rumors have it that the other two tracks are not making any money.

 

Lets quit bashing the promotors and track owners and support our local tracks to help them stay open.

You know like Nascar does when their commercial says support your local track but watch our Sat. night races on T.V.

[speed demon 7]

KC11, I could use someone like you who is willing to do what needs to be done to get fans in the stands. Call me at 281-541-1301. Arthur

[racer61]

Think about that for a while before you guys go complaining because Casey Smith, or Greg Davidson, or Even Mr. Stapp beat your pants off on saturday because "they spent more". The do because they want to.

 

The amazing thing is that we actually don't...spend more that is. You'd be amazed at the limited budget we race on. People assume we outspend our competition, but knowing what we do really spend compared to what others claim to spend, we actually underspend (is that a word) most of them. I just spend a ton of time trying to learn how to make the car handle, and Cary is amazing behind the wheel.

 

You made some good points Cory, I just didn't want to perpetuate the common assumption that the winners are always spending more. Sometimes they are, but sometimes not.

I wasnt saying you out spent anybody. It was an example, because you are so successful in you class that someone who couldnt beat you fairly would complain that they cant afford what you run. Trying to pressure the promoters to "level" the playing field.

Im sure you guys have spent some good money on your stuff. But you seem to of done it over time learning what you needed to be competitive yourself, not what the other guy have. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

[Budman]

I've seen it time and time again, with Champions at all levels of competition. First you need talent ..... but just as importantly you need preparation. You will find that Champions have worked harder and worked smarter with the resources available than all the others. THATS the "WINNING FORMULA."

[racer61]

I've seen it time and time again, with Champions at all levels of competition. First you need talent ..... but just as importantly you need preparation. You will find that Champions have worked harder and worked smarter with the resources available than all the others. THATS the "WINNING FORMULA."

absolutely Budman!

[Lucky161]

I've seen it time and time again, with Champions at all levels of competition. First you need talent ..... but just as importantly you need preparation. You will find that Champions have worked harder and worked smarter with the resources available than all the others. THATS the "WINNING FORMULA."

absolutely Budman!

 

I'd like to make some comments to this thread. I may get told to mind my own business, but that's ok too. I have raced my own car in the past. It was only a street stock and it was a while back so the numbers were not anywhere near what is being talked about here. But the concept is still the same. I've also been around racing in some form or another for over 45 years and my family has owned and raced cars for most of that time. Some in my family have been promoters as well.

 

Racers are their own worst enemies. They will almost without exception price themselves out of the market if left to their own devices. Promoters that give in to the racers demands are sometimes doing the "right" thing, but often are just putting themselves out of business. I can remember when we had 100 winged modifieds in the pits at a 1/4 dirt track. I have also seen it where the winged modified field was less than 10, with 3 owners represented and 6 of the cars probably couldn't have beat half the cars in the parking lot. Lots of things have been tried to control costs and many of those have failed. But some have not failed and failure to even try to control cost is a recipe for disaster. I know people hate claims, spec motors, crate motors, you name it. But if you don't control it, then someone is going to get the upper hand and when other competitors see they have NO chance of not just winning but of just not getting embarrassed, then they drop out. They buy motorcycles and boats, go to bars, gamble or any of a million other things that are available to them. And they do all these things instead of racing, because they don't enjoy racing anymore. A few will drop down a class or two, but most just drop out. A lot of them dont even come to watch anymore when that happens. Racing for $1200 or less to win and $500 and less for a top ten with a $20K motor is insane. And it's not just that it doesn't make economic sense for that racer, but what it does to the competitors. If you can afford a 20K motor and none of your competitors can, you should start touring or you should start another team. One way, you aren't hurting the others and they other way you are actually adding to the field.

Purses not high enough? I've heard that a few times. Well what are you doing to raise them. Yes, I know that's the promoter's job. Well, I say it's your job too. Are you displaying your car on a regular basis where people that don't know anything about racing can see it and ask questions? Are you hauling your race car in a landscaping trailer? That's what enclosed trailers look like to the uniniated. Even when they realize you are hauling a race car, they still probably think it's a dirt bike or a BMX team. Are you racing in a class that you can afford. Not many local racers are professionals. Sure you may have been able to purchase or build a top class car, but can you afford to race it?

Race tracks have a value other than what they can make by putting on races. If you've read the NSSN you probably see where several tracks every year get closed up because the raw land is more valuable than the race track. One of the best ways to let a track owner know of this other value is to whine about the purses. The thought process goes something like this, "I can keep my track open and listen to a bunch of whiners accuse me of getting rich when I am actually losing money or I can sell this property to a developer and go retire in Cancun."

Yes it's a fine line between making ends meet for both the racer and the promoter, but you guys should be working with each other instead of against each other. Can't afford to race on the purse that's offered? Two choices really. Come up with some rules that keep costs in line and fields high or get out and beat the bushes and get some butts in the stands. Both usually require some sacrifices on everyone's part, but the althernative is you can race at the paved track in Amarillo, Lubbock, Odessa, Abilene, Witchita Falls or in DFW. Oh, my bad, those places don't have any paved tracks anymore.

 

I know that was a rant and I apoligize for that. But I also thought some different prospective could help.

[Lucky161]

I would like to ad that I am new here and as I said to start with some might tell me to mind my own business. I have since read a long thread about the controversey over ASA/SAS car rules and while it was heated, I can say that it appears that most people do have their heart if not their pocketbook in the right place. I am leaving my previous post though, as I still think it makes some valid posts. I am not a know it all, but sometimes I play one on the the internet.

[racer61]

you are absolutely right lucky. I agree.

However I bought a motorcycle because i wanted one not due to dropping out of racing.

I had to take a year off to financially recoup from blowing up so many motors in '05. (5 in 05).Guess i better only race in the beginning of the decade.

I want to race, really. But I cant seem to get something put together and on the track before the rules change.

Example: Last race of '05 I blew up a perfectly good engine my sponsor paid good money for. (the reason for failure rests on my shoulders only, I was stupid) Over the winter I started building a new one for '06. I couldnt come up with the money fast enough to be ready for the beginning of the season, no problem Im not in a hurry. Got the motor, uh-oh, not a crate motor. well sh$%. Now I have to do something else. Guess I got to save up some more. I dont have a problem with that, but I also dont want a garage full of pieces that I cant use. Its not the purse or cost of fuel. That will be the same everywhere. I just want to race what I have. It was legal 2 years ago, so why not now?

 

p.s. I am my own worst enemie... but I sure do enjoy it

 

Cory