CommonSenseRacing Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 Here’s my question, I guess I haven’t kept up with the qualifying rule changes NASCAR has made. I was under the impression that the top 36 starting spots were set by time, 37-43 were set by owners points if the team didn’t make it on time and the 43 spot would go to the most recent past champion if needed. Wasn’t that the way it used to be? With Toyota entering the cup series, I’m very surprised that Toyota didn’t negotiate with NASCAR to have this rule changed. As the rule stands, I don’t believe Toyota has much of a chance to be locked into the top 35 at any point. Granted, the drivers picked to represent Toyota are not the cream of the crop (not even the black sh*t at the bottom of the cup, JMO). I would have to believe that it is mutually beneficial for NASCAR and Toyota to be at the cup level. So why hasn’t NASCAR made changes to help the Toyotas get up to speed? I remember a few years back when they were constantly changing the noses to make the manufacturers more equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REBELRACER Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 they talked the other day about tweaking the qualifying rules since michael waltrip has missed the past 8 races.........and the simple solution for the toyota teams would seem to be get into the top 35 in owner points so they wont have to qualify on time.........that would mean that they would have to start making the show and then finish the race........reutiman was pretty close the other day, but blew up in the end.........sucks for him but at least he knows he ran good for a little while.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilTPS Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 The NASCAR Nextel Cup is ranked as the #2 major sport in the USA. Their qualifying system needs a major overhaul. To deserve the #2 rank, they need to truly function as #2 ranked sport in the USA. 1. Imagine a PGA golf tournament which would pass out "mulligan shots" to their stars who are having a bad day. The PGA could call the extra shots the "Lucky Dog Award". 2. Consider the uproar if a major league star baseball batter were to be allowed 4 strikes and 5 balls just to give him a helping hand when he was having a tough time at the plate, while still employing the 3 strikes and 4 balls system for the non-stars. 3. Ohio State had a bad night in the BCS National Championship game vs Florida. Why not just let them keep their #1 ranking anyhow? I could go on, but lets just say that the competition at each race would be much better if the fastest 43 drivers and cars in time trials that weekend were to earn their spot on the Saturday night/Sunday afternoon grid. A comparason. In the PGA, after two days of play, the better half of the 155 player field qualifies to continue play on the weekend. The lower half goes home because they proved they weren't as good that week. I know the reason NASCAR uses their system. They want to pacify major money sponsors in order for the sponsors to keep depositing money into NASCAR racing. Enough said ! Neil Upchurch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProTree Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 Used to be the old saying was the only thing in life that was for sure was taxes and death.Now it's taxes,death and a starting position in a nascar race if your in the top 35. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodneyRodriguez Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 you got it Neil, that's why we refer to it as NA$CAR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 i think it should be the fastest 43 ........ toyota has to earn the right to race .not a given as same for drivers ... could toyota use the help in some spots .maybe ..they are new and nascar and toyota have to keep looking at where the problem maybe ..if its motor .or nose piece or something major like that then i can see the help ..if its because the teams cant get it together then they need to get better poeple and that will probably take time for there is no exsperts with this toyota car at this point .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dano36 Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 I agree with Neil Upchurch that NASCAR needs to start acting like its the number 2 sport in the nation. It could easily be number 1 if it would simply let it return to the old qualification rules by allowing the fastest to run the race and not some fancy formula that allows those with the most dollars under the hood to make the show week after week as long as they remain in the top 35. I can concede the 43rd spot to a past champion provided he did not qualify by speed but the other 42 should be lined up by qualification speed. Its obvious that NASCAR cares more about sponsorship dollars than it does the fans but if they have been watching the TV ratings of late they had better start paying more attention to fans. So far this year, every race ran has dropped in its TV ratings from last year which incidently had dropped from the previous year. The only race this season to equal last seasons ratings was Texas Motor Speedway. It is interesting to note that Michael Waltrip missed making the field by 9 one hundreths of a second yet he was faster than 22 drivers that made the race on points. In fact, every car that did not qualify was quicker than several cars that did make the field. Now is that fair? No way. Toyota is on a learning curve right now just like they were with the trucks. Look what they do in trucks now. Their Cup program is totally different than their truck program so expect a couple year learning curve. As for their drivers being lessor of the field, well that is just one mans opinion. Look closely and you will see they are all experienced drivers who most likely were signed up because of their expertise of knowing what a car needs, etc. Dave Blaney, for example, may have never done anything spectacular in Cup racing but his credentials are outstanding in other types of racing. Dave has won championships in the World of Outlaws sprints and also the USAC Silver Crown series. In Cup contention he has never really had a ride with a top team other than his short stint at RCR who used him on an experimental basis. In my opinion, NASCAR Cup will lose its popularity and drop back to its previous standing in the American sports arena if they don't start being more logical in their rules. Another rule that they have that really irks me is their "lucky dog" rule. NASCAR is the only sport in the world where it is possible to finish higher even after having run one less lap than people behind you. Several lucky dogs have went on to win the race and I always thought it wrong that they would have actually ran one less lap than the guy who finished second. I agree that its sensible to not race back to the flag for position on yellows but face it, you go a lap down you can restart on the inside which in itself can be a hefty advantage if you are fast. But I believe you go a lap down for whatever reason, then you race to get it back. JMO---Dano36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodneyRodriguez Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 I had a guy here at work, not a full time fan, just watches when he happens to see it on TV. He asked yesterday about Stewart complaining all the time, top 35 etc.., he asked why not have another league!!!??? What do ya'll think about that, like the USFL of racing? They took big time players, lasted 3-4 years fizzled, sued the elder league and won $13.00. Same deal hear I think. It's NASCAR's way, whether it makes sense or not, thats the way it's going to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 i hope for once i dont make sense here .dont want to spoil my rep ..but ..what does an old company do when they get stagnent ..they push out the old to get the new ..over 40 year old fans and up .dont matter to nascar ... those sponsors want new young poeple buying and working for them ..so we the older fans start fadeing away so the younger fans come in and take our place ..yep they loose money for a while so to say ..but the future looks bright down the road ..nascar wont die .and will be strong er in the end .untill its time for the old to go . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 It's no longer "qualifying"......it's just a speed exhibition for the most part. Sucks, just like the rest of stupid rules changes. Until people A) stop watching or 2) quit going ,NA$CAR ain't gonna change a damn thing. They no longer care about anything but the almighty dollar and bogus debris cautions to help the "chosen few!!!!!!" NOW........you wanna know how I really feel????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 Yes Jay Tell us how you really feel. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPosse Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 Here’s my question, I guess I haven’t kept up with the qualifying rule changes NASCAR has made. I was under the impression that the top 36 starting spots were set by time, 37-43 were set by owners points if the team didn’t make it on time and the 43 spot would go to the most recent past champion if needed. Wasn’t that the way it used to be? That is the way it used to be...top 36, then go down the point standings and pick the next 7 cars that didn't make it on time. The rest go home. What they've done is essentially made 35 provisionals. Personally, I have no problem with having guaranteed starters - but to block out 35 positions is insane. If you run 30th quickest time, but happen to be the 8th of the "go or go home" crowd you have no chance to ever get in the top 35. The top 12 get in the chase - so why not the top 12? NASCAR only pays back to positions 20 or 25, so why not 20 or 25 (whatever it may be)? Anybody can have a bad qualifying run, or bad luck - so I understand, to a point, the guaranteed spot. Or, how about locking in the top 20, and go back to having a 2nd round of qualifying....and I mean EVERYONE from 21st on back qualifies again - top 16 from round 2 are in and fill in the provisionals. Get rid of the impound rule while we're at it. And let me add - this isn't to help Toyota - its to make the sport better. I have believed since the NASCAR explosion in popularity there are now millions of NASCAR fans out there - but not many RACE fans. I'm sure we've all talked to someone sporting a brand new NASCAR related shirt and struck up a conversation and realized they've never set foot at a local track...one person even told me they "don't bother with that stuff" - I told him the Cup races are not racing - they are a form of racing and encouraged them to check out their local track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Definitive Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 Why,on some tracks,do they have to only start 43 cars?Picture Texas Motor Speedway.See the cars coming down to take the green flag.Do you think there is too little room there for 53 cars?Of course,there are some tracks that are too small,and most have too little room on pit road.I would bet there are enough tracks with the space to add ten more pit stalls,to make it possible for new,low budget,or even new manufacturers trying to break into the sport,to be able to race and not worry about the bump.NA$CAR scares off untold numbers of sponsors,racers,or even potential car owners,who don't want to risk the dollars just to get bumped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97car Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 They should all qualify like everyone has to on the short tracks,then maybe it will be a race again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSTONLM04 Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 It's no longer "qualifying"......it's just a speed exhibition for the most part. Sucks, just like the rest of stupid rules changes. Until people A) stop watching or 2) quit going ,NA$CAR ain't gonna change a damn thing. They no longer care about anything but the almighty dollar and bogus debris cautions to help the "chosen few!!!!!!" NOW........you wanna know how I really feel????????? Hey Jay, I recall reading somewhere that to keep fan interest up NA$CAR was considering rolling some dice after qualifying to shake things up a bit, 5 of them just like Yahtzee. And, if the pole sitter rolls 5 of a kind Michael Waltrip gets to race. If that doesn’t work it said they are considering full field inverts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Definitive Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 Full field inverts in Cup?Now you're talking.Bristol would be soooooo cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie49 Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 The top 12 get in the chase - so why not the top 12? NASCAR only pays back to positions 20 or 25, so why not 20 or 25 (whatever it may be)? Anybody can have a bad qualifying run, or bad luck - so I understand, to a point, the guaranteed spot. Or, how about locking in the top 20, and go back to having a 2nd round of qualifying....and I mean EVERYONE from 21st on back qualifies again - top 16 from round 2 are in and fill in the provisionals. The way they had selected it was that with the new point system going back over history no one had ever come back from more than 400 points or 10th in the standings. After seeing how successful it was and how tight it was if the 11th or 12th were included in the mix, they decided to expand from 10 to 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowball Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 I think they should start 48 cars at any track one mile or larger. At the others, start 43 and allow each team in the top 35 in points two "provisionals" per season incase of a problem in qualifying. There would only be 2 of these given out per race though based on who is highest in points.Other than that, take the fastest 43 straight up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted May 2, 2007 Report Share Posted May 2, 2007 And, if the pole sitter rolls 5 of a kind Michael Waltrip gets to race. Now that's some funny shtuff there Brad. LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO How the hell you guys been? Haven't seen you, JP or Yalie in forever. Hows the dog wash business lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPosse Posted May 2, 2007 Report Share Posted May 2, 2007 The top 12 get in the chase - so why not the top 12? NASCAR only pays back to positions 20 or 25, so why not 20 or 25 (whatever it may be)? Anybody can have a bad qualifying run, or bad luck - so I understand, to a point, the guaranteed spot. Or, how about locking in the top 20, and go back to having a 2nd round of qualifying....and I mean EVERYONE from 21st on back qualifies again - top 16 from round 2 are in and fill in the provisionals. The way they had selected it was that with the new point system going back over history no one had ever come back from more than 400 points or 10th in the standings. After seeing how successful it was and how tight it was if the 11th or 12th were included in the mix, they decided to expand from 10 to 12. I get that - what I was referring to was if they need to "guarantee" spots in the race it shouldn't be 35 spots - it should be 12 or 20 since those are the magic numbers for the chase and points payouts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted May 2, 2007 Report Share Posted May 2, 2007 How about cut all the crap........fastest 43 race, the driver with the highest points total wins the championship. WOW what a novel idea! Maybe Tony will start his own series.......call it NADS....the No Assinine Debris Series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonSenseRacing Posted May 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2007 It is interesting to note that Michael Waltrip missed making the field by 9 one hundreths of a second yet he was faster than 22 drivers that made the race on points. In fact, every car that did not qualify was quicker than several cars that did make the field. Now is that fair? No way. Toyota is on a learning curve right now just like they were with the trucks. Look what they do in trucks now. Their Cup program is totally different than their truck program so expect a couple year learning curve. As for their drivers being lessor of the field, well that is just one mans opinion. Look closely and you will see they are all experienced drivers who most likely were signed up because of their expertise of knowing what a car needs, etc. Dave Blaney, for example, may have never done anything spectacular in Cup racing but his credentials are outstanding in other types of racing. Dave has won championships in the World of Outlaws sprints and also the USAC Silver Crown series. In Cup contention he has never really had a ride with a top team other than his short stint at RCR who used him on an experimental basis. Michael missed the field by 9 one hundreths of a second, true, but it was an impound race, so I suspect most teams were in race set up. I'm confident MW's car was set up to qualify and they would worry about the race later. As far as the drivers, that's just my opinion. I like Dave Blaney, out of all the Toyota drivers he's the best one, but in my opinion the key phase that you used is "he may have never done anything spectacular in Cup racing but his credentials are outstanding in other types of racing". My example, just because someone is an all star football player in high school, does mean he'll make it in the NFL. At this level it is about performance, if he performed he would still be at RCR. I just don't buy the Toyota learning curve, that's why they started in the trucks. Dodge came back and didn't go through the problems Toyota is going through. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landlord Posted May 2, 2007 Report Share Posted May 2, 2007 On inside nextel cup, MW said that at dega and daytona that there is no difference in race set-up and the qualifying set-up and that he was tired of hearing that.I don't know if this is true,but thats what he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REBELRACER Posted May 2, 2007 Report Share Posted May 2, 2007 maybe thats why he missed the field.............lol.............. blaney is a good driver, he is doing good in busch right now.........it isnt like toyota has the top notch drivers and teams on their side.........maybe once they start running good better quality teams will switch to toyota or some of the quality drivers and crew cheifs will move to toyota and improve their performance..........i say next year toyota starts winning in cup..........this year is going to be a learning season..............jmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted May 2, 2007 Report Share Posted May 2, 2007 How about cut all the crap........fastest 43 race, the driver with the highest points total wins the championship. WOW what a novel idea! Maybe Tony will start his own series.......call it NADS....the No Assinine Debris Series. good ideal i used to remimber they ... meaning nascar used to do it that way .or was i dreaming ...it was called real racen then ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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