WildRacer5 Posted February 14, 2003 Report Share Posted February 14, 2003 other than the some of the hardcore racers and fans that we have on this site, Why does there alway seems to be a lack of competetitors and some time fans at the paved tracks in Texas? Texas Motor Speedway not included. Even heart of Texas in Waco on a Friday night before Easter Last year had more fans in the stands, and for that matter more cars in just the two trophy classes than on a few nights at thunderhill that same season. TX thunder is Killeen always has a killer count in both. I know that people will say that SAS is packed all the time I'm not to sure I'd not a regular, but even track management dropped Super Street because of no support? (Well at least that was the reason given) Is it because the dirt is cheaper? The tracks are better? Maybe it is just the management. I don't know. I'm an pavement junkie so it bothers me to see all the support that the dirt tracks are getting over the paved ones. Don't get me wrong support is support for any auto racing but why does it seems to be a gap between the two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh42 Posted February 14, 2003 Report Share Posted February 14, 2003 To add to it I've been to and race many times at Cowtown Speedway in Kennedale. They have 3 race tracks within a square mile of each other (two dirt tracks and a drag strip). I have seen both dirt tracks on a saturday night with a packed house in the stands and in the pits. They have cars in the pits that start in turn 4 go all the way around backstretch into turn 1 and thats every sat. night. I personnaly would like to see THR get that many cars but you cant have everything. I dont know what the deal is because they run there track like everyone else does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted February 14, 2003 Report Share Posted February 14, 2003 This is definately an interesting topic, because I've wondered about the low fan count at THR many times. As far as the car count goes, I think THR does well. The only class that really could stand to have more cars is the late model class, and I don't think that will improve with the addition of the TSRS to the schedule. There are many nights where we have over 20 cars racing in the street stock feature, and to be honest, I really don't want any more than that! LOL The hobby stocks have a nice car count as well, and the pure stock class has probably doubled in car count since it started. I just wonder about the fan count. There are paved tracks in other states similar to THR that attract over 3000 fans weekly. Who knows? Chase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tqj3 Posted February 14, 2003 Report Share Posted February 14, 2003 It's a dead horse, but the answer is still the same: publicity. No one even knows what traveling show is coming to THR every week, because no one (track, series or drivers) is telling them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97car Posted February 14, 2003 Report Share Posted February 14, 2003 Part of the problem is constant rule changes,you have to buy their track tire to run there even on special shows. I would say low purse,but some of the tracks mentioned already that have full car counts run for less money than what the asphalt cars do. Too many rules instead of making the rules simple and affordable and I don't mean spec racing either,that is a joke in my opion,NO OFFENSE everyone has their niche. The shows take too long to run, due to clean up and too many lapses in the lineup at some tracks. Not enough cars show up for the price the tracks want to charge for admission to the stands,lets face it COWTOWN and the other dirt tracks mentioned have a bigger weekly car count than the Octoberfast does. You have to keep your drivers informed and as stated above the tracks have to advertise. Tracks also need to do something for the kids each week,if the kids are happy the parents will be happy too. Not at all tracks,but some have too many nit-picking regulations in the pits,like having to have rails to sit on the trailer and watch the races. Having been down here roughly 19 years and worked at some of the tracks I do not get as enthused about races down here as I did in the Dallas and east Texas area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SASPEEDRACER24 Posted February 14, 2003 Report Share Posted February 14, 2003 From what I have seen or heard on this issue that first off it takes promotion to get people in the stands that doesn't mean sending out press releases to our great websites that means putting ad's in papers and not just the local papers... How many people in Dallas, Houston, or San Antonio knew about the Bigshot 250 that are not connected to TXSZ or to THR in some way... In respect to car counts I believe you will see bigger car counts on dirt races becasue it is cheaper to run for the most part. For instance how many dirt drivers have to buy rubber on all four corners on a given night, not many. Asphalt is more expensive to run hense a lower car count on a asphalt track in my opinion... Thats not the only reason and their are probrobly more to that but thats my take.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted February 15, 2003 Report Share Posted February 15, 2003 There are a number of major reasons that asphalt racing has not been thriving in South Texas. 1) Most tracks have a very narrow profit margin. Therefore, advertising and promotion is sporatic or non-existent. 2) The management at some tracks has been less than outstanding. 3) In many cases, key track personnel are selected for loyalty rather than competence. 4) Alphalt racing is very expensive for race teams. 5) Track owners / promoters have not made common sets of rules with other area tracks. 6) Tracks have been reluctant to adopt cost cutting measures, such as a one-tire-a-week rule. 7) Fans don't want to pay to see the same dozen cars week after week. There are many other reasons, of course, but those might head the list. I tried to address some of those reasons when I was Competition Director at SAS a few years back, and was making some headway when the track owner decided to back out... I think that with proper management and someone willing to front advertising and promotion, asphalt racing in South Texas could make a comeback. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ups88john Posted February 15, 2003 Report Share Posted February 15, 2003 i agree with wild racer, besides the hardcore race fans, who else knows about these big shows? I tell everyone i see that there is a big race and they are just like what, where, when, i didnt hear about this. there needs to be more advertising, not trying to say i know how. a big step is the motorsports show in austin, but how many people that dont normally listen to that station at that time are gonna know about it? I just wish there was an easy way to get fans in the stands, which would bring more cars ect... THR does a great job, but maybe a little more press wouldnt hurt. just my 2 cents. Big John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted February 15, 2003 Report Share Posted February 15, 2003 I would sure welcome the one tire a week rule. I just learned that THR will require us to run tires with an official THR stamp after the second week this season. These are the exact same tire as we ran last year, but the 7 tires we have left over from last year will become junk after the second week because they don't have a THR stamp on them. So instead of limiting tire cost, THR decides to increase it. That's in addition to the pit fees going up for this season - all with no change in the purse payouts. Sorry for the rambling, but I thought this stuff went right along with this topic. Chase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted February 15, 2003 Report Share Posted February 15, 2003 I guess I'll weigh in on this one. Nick has probably hit the most nails on the heads with his ideas. It's a given that pavement racing is more expensive, and you also have exclusive track rules. Where in dirt racing you have several sanctioning bodies, like IMCA where you can go race at any one of 19 tracks in Texas. UMP has about 6-8 tracks, then you have the two south Texas tracks with comprable rules. In the past five years, I've seen fan count decline at most tracks I visit, both pavement and dirt. Why? Certainly the economy has some to do with it, more places to spend entertainment dollars, with all the pro/semi pro sports teams, etc. But moreover, in my opinion, racing is losing it's novelty status. Back when NASCAR first hit live TV, more people got interested and flocked to local tracks. But as car counts dwindled, shows lasted into the wee hours of the morning, fights, cheating, etc. many people lost the "newness" of the sport. Now as for publicity/advertising, (OH NO here goes-Nick, Jason be ready-LOL) Many of the local "big print media" turn a deaf ear to motorsports in general. Just look at the SA paper, ever see any of my stories? NO! And for whatever dumb reason I still occasionally try to sneak one in, but they now get returned to me. Am I that good, certainly not, never claimed to be, but myself , Mr Mabrito and perhaps again, Mr Haag, do try. And you occasionaly see a SAS ad the paper Radio/TV, last year SAS did run commercials on both. Don't know about THR, since I'm out of that viewing area. Did it help SAS? I guess only Mr Sepich could answer that one. This year we have a start with the inception of Chuck's Motorsports Zone. Maybe more advertisers, sponsors, etc. will step up. But you're still only getting local area coverage. Small print media, like the RAT Traxx, Late Model Digest, Hawkeye Racing News, etc. With the start of the internet, MANY tracks choose to point and click instead of putting an ad in the paper. The internet is free, ads cost money. True RAT Traxx has only about a circulation of 5000, but it goes to tracks, race shops, parts stores, etc. Where most of your racing public is. There was an interesting comment made about publicity, especially since it came from a person "in the loop" of two of the most poorly attended shows. I know because I was at the first, and even though I was "excluded" from last years, I had friends that were there. The first year Mary Ann asked for my help, which I glady gave her. I posted the flyer on websites from Calif. to the Midwest, to New England. Did it help? With fans, doubtful, with cars maybe one or two if that. But I tried and it didn't cost a dime. Unfortunately it came together so late that the deadline for advertising in the RAT Traxx had passed. I also tried to get a write-up in the SA paper, but NOONE ever sent me results, or the driver info I asked for. So by the time I got the results from the SA paper(on Mon. or Tues.), it was far too late for them to print a "stale" story. Hopefully though things are starting to look up. Chuck's show is a step in that direction. Houston Raceway Park is going to air a 1/2 hour TV show on cable recapping the past weeks racing, along with interviews from sponsors, car owners and local racers. It takes alot of duckies to put on show like that and Todd Parker is sticking his neck out trying it. But again, he's trying something instead of laying dormant wishing for the best. Right now I'm up to about 12-15 different websites and papers that print my stuff, depending on what I'm covering. But I still have trouble getting some tracks to send me results, and press releases. Go figure! Some will tell me it's on their website, and that's fine. But I'm not going to research every track in the state to get info. No offense, but I'd never have time to do my own stuff if I did that. Sorry if I've offended any person, track, promoter or owner, but that's my take on this. For what it's worth!!!! And you get what you paid for!! LMAO OK I'm climbing off my soapbox now and hoping to not have to dodge any rocks thrown my way. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SASPEEDRACER24 Posted February 15, 2003 Report Share Posted February 15, 2003 Hey Reb I think someone gave you a penny for your thoughts and got back a dollar lol j/k... It really seems like that Nick and yourself are right on in this subject... Since I have been able to goto both dirt and pavement races you can see a difference in how they are promoted... I would venture to guess that there are more dirt racers becasue it is cheaper and also more accessible with regards to rules and how inexpensive it is for them to run... I'll use this example in dirt mods you have a guy that probrobly has unlimited resources in Henry Witt and the guy that is next in standings Glen Allen has far less resources but knows what to do with them... The more is that on dirt it is esier for the guy without money to win or be up near the top than an asphalt guy and I think that trensends (spell check) all of the classes... I also will say that the management of a track has a extremely hard job of promoting if they don't have the dollars to promote with for whatever reason...Thats what it comes down to who has the money and who doesn't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97car Posted February 15, 2003 Report Share Posted February 15, 2003 Keep in mind that on dirt the high point cars usually start at or toward the rear due to the inversion,and if you continually win in that situation on a short track then you can say you have done something,I have seen Bo Rawdon do this consistantly years ago and it made for some tough racing in just 25 laps,no offense guys but I tend to want to usually snooze at a 40-50 lap weekly show feature when most of the real contesting for the lead is in the last 10-15 laps at midnight when I have to leave due to having to be at work by 6am and get up at 4:30,besides having to drive 45 minutes to an hour to get to the house.There also is more entertainment venues now then there used to be. A lot of the dirt tracks used to let you bring in ice chests,and ticket prices are still a lot cheaper for the stands even for the big shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RandyBorlace Posted February 15, 2003 Report Share Posted February 15, 2003 lets face it, dirt is more fun well what could be more fun then going 70 mph sideways in a bomber or 100 mph sideways in a modified. asphalt is more for the big money teams, i would love to race asphalt again, i have been racing on it since i was 5, but dirt is a cheaper way to have fun in fast cars.if i had some more sponsors, i would consider a reurn to asphalt, but with my sponsors now, i am doing OK in dirt. WHEN i hit the lottery my dream will be accomplished to go back to asphalt in a ROMCO car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted February 15, 2003 Report Share Posted February 15, 2003 I don't understand this...Its a proven fact ASPHALT IS BETTER THAN DIRT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted February 15, 2003 Report Share Posted February 15, 2003 Jason, Somehow I just don't think they'll pave Saratoga just because it's close to your house and you like asphalt racing better than dirt racing.. LOL Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel Posted February 17, 2003 Report Share Posted February 17, 2003 A step in the right direction. Mike at SAS has re-aligned his 2 entry classes to try and make it easier for CC and THR drivers to come in on "off" nights and race. Now I know that not everyone is happy about all the changes, but I think this well help target some "new folks" to the entry classes at SAS. And that will bring out more folks into the stands. I haven't always agreed with everything that has transpired at SAS, but I think this is an opportunity to enhance the support classes at SAS. Lets see, if my failing memory... Mike Balzer, Donny Horelka, Scott Jerkins, Jason Oates, Tommy Grimes... all started in the support classes. Heck this move could bring the next John Kelley or Keith Reithmeyer to SAS. Seems like a move in the right direction, but without positive support it'll be tough to do. I support this move by SAS mgmt. Mel PS. Hey reb, who cleans all the mud off your cars each week? Man that's sounds like a lot of work! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HORSEPOWER Posted February 17, 2003 Report Share Posted February 17, 2003 I've worked in the northside for the past 6 years and no one knows we have stockcar racing here. I've ran across several Nascar fans and mention the SA track, and they think I'm talking about Alamo Dragway, but what I don't get they say they've been there once or twice(Alamo), but never seen SAS. Didn't we have a weekly show with results on one of our local stations? I know I've seen a few taped races from SAS on ch. 20 the public access, several years back. They just need a Bill Board up there or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poorboy Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 Well when Terry Labonte won his second championship in 1996 the Corpus Christi Caller Times didn't even ive him front page of the sports section. Heck I thought he would get front page of our whole paper. Local tracks will never get new fans if the media won't even acknowledge the professionals that have ran at their tracks. By the way, ASPHALT RULES!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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