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pump gas only


ford12

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Leaves me out,I dont have an engine with low enough compression to run pump gas especially with the heat enhancement additives for emissions required by EPA.The 500 carb is gone too as well as fuel injection.Looks like you Ford guys are back to blowing head gaskets again.If the money is good,I will build a 10-1 motor again and without those pesky Neons or hi horspower Fords it should be a cakewalk.Its no problem to run pump gas and a 32/36 carb.Just cant run with last years fast cars with it.Cant make the meeting,someone tell me how it goes and find out about the purse.Im guessing a car count of 10 to 12 if I polled correctly.Who knows,with a good purse it could be over 20 again no matter what rules they use.JMO.

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WHERE ARE YOU ALL PLANNING TO RUN TIM #12? I KNOW YOU ALL HAVE TO MUCH POWER FOR THE DIRT TRACK AND PUMP GAS AINT GOING TO WORK FOR YOU ALL'S MOTORS. I HAVE SEEN YOU ALL RACE OUT THERE IT WOULD BE SOMETHING TO SEE THEM STANGS RUN IN THE DIRT ONCE YOU ALL FIGURE OUT THE SET UP.

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I've e-mailed the Yocums about the rules for thunder. Hopefully, they will show their professionalism by discussing the rules. Otherwise I guess we can't run there. Hopefully this will not be the "same old thing", that already has proven to drop car count and competitive racing. I feel confident though that they are too smart to fall for the closed minded mentality. Glad to see ccms open, and can't wait to race there again.

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As per the ccspeedway web site:

 

 

 

Correction on Texas Thunder Class

 

FUEL

 

Pump Gasoline, Racing Fuel or Av-Gas WILL BE allowed.

 

CARBURETORS

 

 

 

The 5200 series Holley / Weber Carburetor is allowed with No modifications! 350 CFM Holley carburetors will be allowed with a 2100lb minimum weight after race, with driver. 500 CFM (4412) Holley carburetors will be allowed with a 2300lb minimum weight after race, with driver. Electric fuel pumps must have cut off switch tied into oil pressure switch to kill pump when motor dies.

 

All other suggestions will be considered at the Thursday Drivers meeting.

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I just orderd a carb conversion kit for the neon, it says its good for 10 more hp. I might need to buy a timing light and I dont know anything about those old mechanical fuel mixing devices. Ill just have to figur it out. I always see people tapping on the side of them saying something is stuck? Anyway, Neon Will

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As per the ccspeedway web site:

 

 

 

Correction on Texas Thunder Class

 

FUEL

 

Pump Gasoline, Racing Fuel or Av-Gas WILL BE allowed.

 

CARBURETORS

 

 

 

The 5200 series Holley / Weber Carburetor is allowed with No modifications! 350 CFM Holley carburetors will be allowed with a 2100lb minimum weight after race, with driver. 500 CFM (4412) Holley carburetors will be allowed with a 2300lb minimum weight after race, with driver. Electric fuel pumps must have cut off switch tied into oil pressure switch to kill pump when motor dies.

 

All other suggestions will be considered at the Thursday Drivers meeting.

350 carb 2100 500 carb 2300 200 split that.aint real .500 is not much more power then a 350

i think more like 2250 for 350 both have been running now and know one with either has proved to be much deferent . i have ran .both our eng just likes 500 .not that its any faster .at cc .got restrictor plate wont take it off took tolong to get it right .o well .

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Guy's & Gals,

We are trying our best to revamp the rules to best suit everyone. Our intent is to get the car counts back up to what they used to be and better. We will take constructive criticism to heart to do the best we can. If there is something that needs to be brought out in the open bring it on please. Some changes will be welcomed by some drivers and some may not. Just keep in mind we are trying to rebuild something here that has been lost, So everyone we need your input in every class and come to the meeting Thursday night and lets all work together to have a sucessful 2006 and beyond racing season.

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I see no reason to eliminate the fuel injection cars.If someone was worried about an unfair advantage,just add a restrictor on the throttle body equal to what the carb cars have with the carburators by weight class.This is easily done and can be guaged by a flow bench which many engine builders have.It is much easier to incorporate the "newer cars"by not having to build custom intake manifolds and ignition systems to eliminate the computer.Electronics do not increase the mechanical horsepower of an engine any more than timing and jetting adjustments do for a carb engine.With no restrictions however,a 16 valve twin cam engine can outflow even a 500 cfm carb engine. Not that big of deal,I can almost keep up with them now with my baby carb.To get new cars,they must be readily available and cheap to make.The injected cars make good power and are reliable and of course are all that is made for 20 years or so.Thunder Car success depends on getting all cars and people involved just like Pro Sedans do.One day they will incorporate fuel injected cars too.And so will American car racers if they want to survive.FI cars have been prooven to be fast and reliable and econimical..Lets dont go backwards in time.As far as weight goes the standard of the industry has always been 1 lb per cc and I think almost every car falls into that catagory already.JMO Thumper

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well first off this class has run fuel injected cars for what four years now .they can be regulated .yes 16 valve eng should not be alould .but they can also be regulated .we should not go back to just carb .s . i dont think you guys have that much advantage over carb cars .fwd wieght wise yes .power wise there close . i believe i saw where [will ]was invited to run tps .they knew he was injected the last time he ran with them . i havent heard many complaints about what someone has or not lately . in the thunders .. so my advice is tweak the rules .

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Some unbiased info for tech

 

All common FI 4cyl sedans have a 50mm or less throttle body most being 42 mm

50mm flows 332 cfm on a flow bench

All electronic FI 4cyl are 16 valve

Some have dual cam and some single cam

You CANNOT put a restricter with a map sensor FI system

If you make the throttle body smaller the motor will lean out and damage

If you put a bigger throttle body the motor will run very rich and lose pwr

any throttle body change will require a after market FI system to remap the FI

The tech limits for electronic FI in 4-stroke watercraft racing is stock computer and injectors

if you leave those stock the limitation is severe

If you put aftermarket computers and bigger injectors and throttle bodys the HP goes up fast.

 

 

WE have the same issues in watercraft between 2-stroke and 4-stroke

The 4-stroke in water craft are all dual cam 16 valve and stock make about 165 to 185 hp from 1.5 liter

 

It seems to me that 30 year old carb 8 valve technoligy will not compete well with stuff made now.

 

IJSBA had to make a decision and they decided to let the pro class be open since all skis made now are 4-stroke.

 

For us it is cheaper to race 4-stroke because it cost to much to make a wild 2-stroke

compete with a stock 4-stroke

 

It seems like your case might be the same.

Let the carb 8 valve racers do whatever they want to there motor

and make the 16 valve FI motors stay with stock computers Throttle bodys and injectors.

EDIT

WUP! I found some early 80s pontiac, and ford tempo motors with 8 valve and throttle body injection. Crude but it is electronic. Not practical though carbs work better.

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Any changes from the rules we expected to be running this year before Dan became involved should be delayed until 2007 season. The rules we had for 2005 seemed to work fairly well. The tires need to stay at 7.25 inches width because many of these cars already run the sumitoma 215/50x13 .We need to plan rules for next season so every one has time to prepare. Money is so tight at this point that ANY added expense could cause people to have to park. But I will be glad to support the track as much as I possibly can. I do support dropping the claimer rule cause I only see it as a way to alter the outcome by making a claim that most racers would refuse.

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I'm glad to see that the Yocums are using an open minded approach to CCMS. I can't wait to see it reopen so we can all go racin'. I dont mind racing against the FI cars, just adjust weights accordingly. Hopefully the pay-outs will be good for Thunders. Let me also say that they e-mailed me back within hours. That's the kind of open discussion I like to see. I agree with Pappy about tires and such. Under this year's rules, we could still race using Pro Sedan weights. I also agree in doing away with the claimer rule.

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i always thought the claimer.rules were never any good for any reason .i dont know of anyone who had a car claimed .i have been around racing along time .so if someone has been claimed please correct. and also i am with pappy on no rule change this year . let them run see if something needs tweeking later .its a late start .so make it simple. i got two cars not ready yet .we.ll see what happens.

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Here is a pump gas story. One time at band camp, just kidding. One time at ccms we all went through tech and were told to give a sample of our gas. So I gave my sample in the bottle provided. My car had a stock motor in it so I ran pump gas, no problem, after all that was the rules. My gas wound up not passing their test. Funny that was, because I bought that gas from a gas station. I told the tech man lets go back to the gas station and get another sample and he said no, just dont buy gas there again. I said ok. Anyway that is a pump gas story.

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in 2000 the track made a dramatic change to the "mini stock rules IN MID SEASON. their reason for the rule change was "its the same 3 or 4 of the same cars up front every weekend". 6 years later, (as far as i could tell) it was still 3 or 4 of the same cars most every weekend vying for the win. i believe everyone puts a lot of effort in making a competitive car, and some just enjoy being on the track. its extremely difficult to make rules even for a class that mixes front and rear wheel drive cars. i went through the same thing with the tps series. we made the changes requested and were still very competitive. even with restrictor plates and weight additions. power plants were important, but we were successful because we made the car handle. that to me is more important than motor. rarely do i hear anyone talking about handling. thats what makes a good car, and thats what the top 3 or 4 cars are doing.

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Good point twister, I noticed that too, especially at CC, handling will make up a lot of ground. All of those top cars, not only in the Tx Thunders, but all of their classes, handled well. Those guys that could run the low AND the high line were successful. If you had a car that would stick high, you had something good going.

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