PAPA Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 I have a question…Why are there mostly GM cars running in the Sportsman class? Why no Fords or Chryslers? Is it the chassis? Is it the motor? I love my Chevys but I would love to see some Fords and Chryslers out on the track. I know there are people out there that can make a Ford do amazing things. Is it the 108” WB? What is the reason? The rules even states that a Ford/Chrysler motor can be used on an OEM GM chassis as long as you use a Ford/Chrysler body. Maybe some incentives could be given to get more Fords/Chryslers on the track. Maybe im missing something. Does anyone have any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonesome Ford Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 I can't personally speak for the Sportsman class @ SAS but Fords in general are at a disadvantage when you look at engine options in most rulebooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 It's just not a level playing field for fords and chryslers. That's why they should all be "super-charger" legal...................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA Posted December 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 What if they gave some serious weight breaks? Maybe some carb and spacer adjustments. Compression ratios could be increased as well. Im sure there are a lot of areas that could be looked at to attract more Fords/Chryslers. Fords use to be real popular several years back. Whats changed? Im sure something can be worked out on this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 One of the problems Ford enthusiasts encountered a few years ago was that Ford performance parts were much more expensive than GM parts. I'm no engine man, but I have been led to believe that there is no reason why a Ford engine can't perform as well as, or even better than, a Chevy power plant. Some of you engine types can set me straight here, but doesn't the Ford have longer rods than Chevy? And can't that be an advantage if put together with an appropriate intake/head combination to actually put out more HP or Torque than a Chevy? Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 Nick, That's what I've always been led to believe also. On the other hand, hasn't John Kelly almost always run a ford? I'd like to hear from his camp on this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA Posted December 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 Maybe we can get Mr Kelly on here to explain some things. Also...What chassis/car would be the best for the Fords/Chryslers? How would the Ford/Chrysler engine combination perform on a GM chassis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RandyBorlace Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 John Jr. used to run a ford back in the 90's in charger, and he was plenty fast... there was talk of a guy who ran roadrunner building a ford for 06 in sportsman, but i havent heard from him in a while... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueoval Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 I runa ford, never had problems with power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonesome Ford Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 If you have comparable engine types they run close to the same performance-wise (Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge) based on your engine builder of course But you can't build a Ford 302 and expect to outrun a 350 Chevy crate engine. There are options to make the Fords faster, ex: 351W or a 347 (302 stroked). Either engine would be competetive with the Chevy guys (using USRA trucks as an example) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 Aren't current Ford performance engines based on the old Cleveland design rather than the Windsor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonesome Ford Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 I believe the newest performance engines are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA Posted December 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 Back to the original question: Where are the Fords and Chryslers? Why arent these cars out there in the same number as the Chevys? There has to be a reason. I dont know what it is but someone has to know why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueoval Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 Goin to run TAMS in 2006 with a Ford. But this is a funny story: Was planning on running the treaded tire unlimited engine rule. So during the off seaon I had a new Ford engine built $$$. Now that the rules came out yesterday I had my heart broken. Now I have to build a brand new engine, another Ford engine that fits the specs of their engine rules. Would have been nice to see that one coming instead of them changing the rules so drastically. I will be running TAMS next season, it is just kind of killing my wallet to have to start over again. Especially when that is where the money comes from, my wallet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonesome Ford Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 My opinion PAPA: 1. costs a lil more $ than chevy, 2. fewer engine builders who can build a good Ford or Chrysler engine rather than Chevy, and 3. Chevy chassis seem to be more abundant in our area as are parts, etc. Just this season are we able to put a Ford engine in a chevy chassis (sportsman class), before most rules stated engine/chassis as Chevy to Chevy Ford to Ford Chrysler to Chrysler. This is probably a step in the right direction to getting more Ford guys running, but they'll still probably opt use the Chevy chassis. Blueoval: I feel your pain man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA Posted December 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 blueoval Sorry to hear about having to build a new motor. Ive noticed that several TAMS and LMs running the Fords. But I have not seen any in the Sportsman class. Any ideas on why? And why arent there any Mopars running in TAMS and LMs? I realize that it takes $$$ to go racing but I dont think $$$ is the only reason the Fords/Chryslers are not on the track with the GM Sportsmans. As much as I love my Chevys, I would love to see someone with a Ford or Chrysler show up every week and give the Chevys a run for their money. I think they would make the Chevy guys worried. JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonesome Ford Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 I think the reasons go beyond money. More reasons off the top of my head (being a Ford guy Engine rules of some classes put a Ford at a distinct disadvantage. There are more chevy guys into racing in our area. Look at any race parts catalog & 75% of the performance parts sold are chevy, 20% ford & 5% chrysler. It is easier to find a 108" chevy chassis than a 108" ford chassis & cheaper. They go on I'm sure, Thanks for the good word Randy! "John Jr. used to run a ford back in the 90's in charger, and he was plenty fast...." John Jr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonesome Ford Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 <babbling on>..... DART racing blocks: chevy $1806.95 ford $2264.95 <babble....babble> not sportsman class, but another example........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA Posted January 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 We've heard from a couple of Ford guys on this subject. Are there any Mopar guys out there that can shed some light on why no Mopars are running in the Sportsman class? I really dont want this subject to just fade away. I wish I had more knowlege on this subject. I really would like to see some Fords and Chryslers out there. I feel everyone is missing out on some GREAT racing because of the lack of these cars on the track. I realize it will cost some more to build a motor but the motor is no the only part on a race car. SLM,TAMS and LM run Fords and those cars cost a whole lot more than the Sportsman cars. And they "Kick Butt"! I think everyone is SKEERED!!!!! JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt15 Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 But you can't build a Ford 302 and expect to outrun a 350 Chevy crate engine. A ford can outrun a crate. It just takes more time, research and money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyhorse Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 you just had to say it , did'nt you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA Posted January 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 Colt15 I would think that a lot of research has already been done on the fords. I can only see the $ differance. And is the $ differance that great? I have been working on a 66 C10 for years and have several thousand dollars tied up in it and its still setting on blocks. The point Im trying to make is...I love my Chevy and its what I want to build and drive. Im sure Ford and Mopar lovers dont prefer them because they cost more to build. There has to be another reason that I dont understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txtom Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 John Jr mentioned the cost of the ford parts; it applies to the mopars also. Another factor is the cars themselves. For years, it has been difficult to find a ford or mopar chassis that you could easily make handle. This goes back a few years, but no one really liked the torsion bar fronts on the mopars, and ford had a lot of strut type fronts that the rules makers would not let you modify to something else. How many mustangs have you seen since the 70's? The camaros and chevelle platforms were easier to work with, and as more people built them to race, the parts became plentiful and cheaper. John JR can add to this also, that the Fords- for a long time- had to contend with a lot more front weight due to the engine weight, as much as 50-60 pounds over a chevy. Don't really know much about the mopar engines. I remember hearing a few mopar racers talking about the difficulty of getting reliable parts, especially rocker arms and small stuff like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA Posted January 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 Thanx Tom. Although thats not what I was hoping to hear. Do you think that the news rules allowing the use of a GM chassis will bring out some Fords and Mopars? I really hope so. Im still not ready to let this die. There has to be something that can be done to get them back on the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RandyBorlace Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 Jimmy Phillips Sr. used to have one FAST mopar back a long time ago, i hear alot of the reason people don't like to run mopars is because they don't have a very good oiling system, a guy who comes and runs i-37 from CC runs a dodge, and he ran an external oil pump to cure that problem, Randy Miller ran a dodge at i37 in the Limited Late Model class, and he was very fast, his car was an asphalt car, don't remember who's though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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