Grand Stock Rules

[CommonSenseRacing]

Let me start by saying I’m not looking to detract from the rules or the guys who wrote them, I’m just curious about people’s opinion regarding the $800 claimer rule.

 

I was looking at the grand stock rules, in particularly the claimer rule. I’m all for reduction of cost, but I don’t know if you can realistically build a car for $800.

 

 

USED

Donor car 500

Racing rims 100

Fuel cell 100

Gauges 50

NEW

Tune up 75

Fluids 50

Miscellaneous 100

Cage 300

Door plating 30

Padding 50

 

TOTAL $1,355

 

 

I didn’t include the equipment that they say wouldn’t go with the car. Also, I didn’t count the labor to build and install everything.

[REBELRACER]

i thought the reason thr called their class grand stocks was because you could get into one for a grand or less..........wouldnt the sas class be more of a pure stock class, not a grand stock.........

 

and another hang up about that class is the fact that you cant have prior racing experience.......for a guy who just wants to throw together a "grand stock" because he/she (former wow drivers) got tired of the polotics and money that goes on in the higher classes, it excludes those folks, which might hurt the car count potential of that class...........jmo

[CommonSenseRacing]

it looks like the spectators cant claim a car at sas (which could be a good thing)

The rule states that, ”SAS has the option to claim any grand car as an outright buy for $800 cash and the car will be auctioned off on the front strait to the highest bidder with an opening bid of $800 required.” To me that means anyone can bid on the car.

[NickHolt]

I’m all for reduction of cost, but I don’t know if you can realistically build a car for $800....To me that means anyone can bid on the car.  

 

The $800 specified as the claim amount in the claim rule does not say that a car should or should not cost more or less to build than $800. Some people will spend less, some more - but if you spend more, it's at your own risk. By using the $800 figure instead of the $1,000 figure, we are making it easier for a claim to happen.

 

No, not just anyone can bid on a car. In this case, the rule is saying that any of the top three finishers in a race will have to sell their car for $800 to someone who finished fourth (or worse) and who is still on the lead lap, OR give the claimed car up up for $500 plus the car belonging to the person making the claim. The person getting claimed gets to decide which option to take.

 

Also, when (and if) it becomes obvious to the track that a particular car has gone overboard, the track has the perogative to purchase the car for $800. If this happens, we will then auction off the jewel on the front straight right then and there.

 

Bottom line: keep the money you spend on a Grand Stock to a minimum.

 

Nick Holt

[NickHolt]

and another hang up about that class is the fact that you cant have prior racing experience.......for a guy who just wants to throw together a "grand stock" because he/she (former wow drivers) got tired of the polotics and money that goes on in the higher classes, it excludes those folks, which might hurt the car count potential of that class...........jmo

The rule states, "This class is intended to be a fun, inexpensive, class for beginners. This class is not intended for experienced racers." No where does it say that a person can't have any prior racing experience.

 

Mona could certainly run a Grand Class car. Greg Davidson... naw.. It's a true entry level class that most experienced drivers wouldn't want to compete in anyway. We're not trying to say that if you raced anywhere at any time you can't run a Grand Stock. But on the other hand, we will do our best to restrict the class to the more inexperienced competitors.

 

We are well aware that there is a big grey area here, but to try to quantify who can and who can't run this class is nothing but an exercise in futility. Most folks understand what this class is about and if we come accross a Greg Davidson who wants to run this class the track will deal with it at that time.

 

Thanks for your concerns about this new SAS class. It might be best if there are further questions about the Grand Stock rules that you bring them directly to Wayne Norrell.

 

Thanks.

 

Nick Holt

[CommonSenseRacing]

The $800 specified as the claim amount in the claim rule does not say that a car should or should not cost more or less to build than $800.  Some people will spend less, some more - but if you spend more, it's at your own risk. By using the $800 figure instead of the $1,000 figure, we are making it easier for a claim to happen.

 

No, not just anyone can bid on a car.  In this case, the rule is saying that any of the top three finishers in a race will have to sell their car for $800 to someone who finished fourth (or worse) and who is still on the lead lap, OR give the claimed car up up for $500 plus the car belonging to the person making the claim.  The person getting claimed gets to decide which option to take.

 

Also, when (and if) it becomes obvious to the track that a particular car has gone overboard, the track has the perogative to purchase the car for $800. If this happens, we will then auction off the jewel on the front straight right then and there.

 

Bottom line:  keep the money you spend on a Grand Stock to a minimum.

 

Nick Holt

I understand that people are going to spend more or less than $800 on a car, you can spend whatever you want, that’s not the purpose of my question. What I am implying is for example, a 604 crate engine costs roughly $5,000, if you wrote a rule that said you can claim anyone’s 604 crate engine for $5,000 they could pick a new one up on their way out of the track. I’m saying that because from what I understand HMP sells them and I’m assuming SAS will do the same. I take it THR started the class and there was a $1,000 claim for a car, makes sense. I also understand the point of this class is to be cheap! What I don’t understand and was asking a question about is why $800 or less, which I don’t believe is a realistic amount to build a SAFE RACE CAR. SAS is a lot faster that THR and it would cost more to have a safe race car, in my opinion.

 

You say it yourself if a car is a jewel it will be auctioned off on the front strait right then and there. So, I don’t think the question I asked is unreasonable. It doesn't specify that a driver has to be the one who bids on the car in that case.

 

My bottom line is cost reduction is great, but not at the cost of safety!

[NickHolt]

I understand your concern, you feel like an $800 claim rule is compromising the safety of these cars for the sake of keeping the costs low.

 

Keep in mind, however, that SAS is not saying you cannot spend more than $800 to build a Grand Stock. You can spend $10,000 if you want to. The purpose of a claim rule in any division is not to sacrifice safety - it's to insure that the class does not escalate into the next level up. All these cars will be safety inspected by experienced builders before they are allowed to complete.

 

If experience can be any sort of guide here, many of the current Grand Stock cars at THR were built for far less than $1,000, including several that the track built.

 

By the way, a couple of years ago we had pretty much the same discussion on TXSZ when THR first brought in their Grand Stock class.

 

Nick Holt

[gotcha4592]

Let Me correct you I have built a grand stock You run the stock wheels and tires 100 dollars cheaper. Fuel cell buy a boat cell from academy 20 dollars. gauges all you need is water temp 10 dallras at autozone if you have any other questions pm me. I bought a car I bought a cage, I payed for everything on my car spent less than 400 dollars that is the point of that class to have fun take an old junk car put a cage in it put a cheap boat cell it it and have fun any questions pm me

[thumper]

This is none of my business but Im board so let me add my firsthand experience with claimer cars and restrictions on drivers.A good friend of mine was about to win his only championship and won the next to the last points race for the year.Another driver came up to him and declaired a claim on his car.There was no exchange rule,like it is when a track claims a car without one to trade.My friend had to decide eather to keep his win or his car.To loose the car would have cost the championship anyway so he made a deal with the claiming driver to withdraw the claim in exchange for keeping the win and not racing the last race,giving the championship to the claiming driver that was only a few points behind.That was my sister in laws 3rd championship.As far as who can drive in a restricted class,RGS used that "gray aera"to eliminate all 7 of my friends I was sponsering,telling them they were too good and too experienced to race this class.One of them was racing his first year.They let me race whenever their dumb rule changes lost too many cars and kicked me out everytime we got the car count back up.I guess I was the Greg Davison of Thunder Cars to them.All the Thunder drivers that were kicked out by RGS never raced again,if they had the means to race a more expensive class they would have been doing it anyway.We have been racing claimer cars at CC Speedway for 4 years now without a claim filed.If the dollar amount is fair and an exchange is available,it works to keep out "ringers".I never believed in driver restrictions,theres always a reason why someone picks the series they run in.Today its usually about money.You guys dont have a Thunder Car program so this is whats available for the underfunded.Just because a person loves racing for many years,should he be denied the chance to race just because he is poor?You could call that kind of racing Promoters Choice racing.Just my opinion,and my experience,thanks for reading..........Thumper

[REBELRACER]

thats what it sounds like to me too........i agree with the class and think they would have a good car count if they didnt have the experience stipulation........i mean a guy might just want to get into a class for fun and not spend a ton of money to do it.........the grand stocks at thr look like a lot of fun and they have no experience barrier..........the claim rule is good if a guy just wanted to get a feel of how it feels to race once...........claim a car for a grand and run it........the only down side to the claim rule is the case where a kid builds a car with his dad to get into racing and have something to do together and because he happens to run good he looses his car and all that time they put into it for $800.........its 6 one way half dozen the other, but i think the class will do good if it was more like the thr class...........jmo

[DirtRacer9s]

I don't think that they should put a rule on the grand stock class not letting experienced

drivers race. Times change, money comes and money goes, meaning the racers who once raced in the upper classes may no longer be able to race those classes, so why can't they run in the class they can afford, even if it means pure stock. Would San Antonio Speedway rather have experienced drivers racing still or lose even more racers? What could an experienced driver do different than a rookie. Give the rookie a few weeks and they will no what they are doing to. Even if you are experienced you are not ganna blow a bunch of money on the car. For what so you can lose it for $800 bucks. Its a pure stock, an old car that doesn't have any performance stuff on it. It doesn't have any of the stuff a experienced drivers has driven except on the street. What do they know how to drive street cars better than rookies. I have gotten myself out of alot of fish tails in my truck and I'm a rookie. I'm not saying thats all I need to know how to do but with all the stuff I've done in my everyday driving, I think I could handle an old junker on the track just as well as an experienced racer. And I say bring um' on. Just one more person I can beat. And if they think they can slip by with a couple tricks on tuning up there car or anything that a rookie wouldn't know how to do, I say Thats FINE. I'll just claim there car. Every car is ganna be different: speeds, turning, acceleration, etc. There all different makes, models, engines, gear ratios, trannys. My point is that if an experienced racers loves racing and he can't afford any other class. LET THEM RACE. It ain't ganna bother me any. It will just make victory that much sweeter to know I WHOOPED an experienced driver.

[REBELRACER]

the point i was trying to make is that they are starting a new class at sas........a low cost class........why exclude people before the class even hits the track.........i would rather see a class with a bunch of cars in it, regardless of driver experience, then to make a rule that excludes a driver due to experience.........it would be like the truck series not allowing mark martin to run because he is a nextel legend.........

[DirtRacer9s]

I completely agree with rebelracer, do you think anybody would care if Dale Jr. traded in his Nextel car for a San Antonio Late Model. Heck no, they would be excited to race him to see if they could beat a Nextel Driver. Atleast I would.

[97car]

I agree open it up to even the experienced drivers,the way racing comes and goes it often reaches a point where it is no longer fun,and this class might renew the spark for some to race again.What is the purse going to be for this class?If it is just for trophies,it won't be around long like the other class from a couple of years ago that was thought was going to be a cash cow.Yes they shouldn't expect a whole lot for payout but get something back for their efforts.

[CommonSenseRacing]

Let Me correct you I have built a grand stock You run the stock wheels and tires 100 dollars cheaper. Fuel cell buy a boat cell from academy 20 dollars. gauges all you need is water temp 10 dallras at autozone if you have any other questions pm me. I bought a car I bought a cage, I payed for everything on my car spent less than 400 dollars that is the point of that class to have fun take an old junk car put a cage in it put a cheap boat cell it it and have fun any questions pm me

I take it you raced the car at THR, I’ve never been there, but at SAS you will be going a lot faster. $20 for a boat fuel cell, great that saves $80, forget the $100 racing rims and let’s say we paid $100 for the car instead of $500. I’m keeping the $50 for the gauges, since it’s cheaper to spend that then to have to replace the engine. Should I also assume that you didn’t give the car a tune up or change the fluids?

[CommonSenseRacing]

I understand your concern, you feel like an $800 claim rule is compromising the safety of these cars for the sake of keeping the costs low.

 

Keep in mind, however, that SAS is not saying you cannot spend more than $800 to build a Grand Stock. You can spend $10,000 if you want to. The purpose of a claim rule in any division is not to sacrifice safety - it's to insure that the class does not escalate into the next level up. All these cars will be safety inspected by experienced builders before they are allowed to complete.

 

If experience can be any sort of guide here, many of the current Grand Stock cars at THR were built for far less than $1,000, including several that the track built.

Nick,

 

Let me repeat myself and say I’m not looking to detract from the rules or the guys who wrote them, my question was aimed at the $800. In my opinion the $200 is immaterial, if that last $200 is spent to make the cars safer. Your right the rules don’t say how much you have to spend, but if you make a list off what you should buy to build a safe car for the average person, shouldn’t the basis or claim be at that dollar amount.

 

Also, if a car is claimed and auctioned off on the front strait is anyone allowed to bid on the car or is it reserved for the drivers in that race?

 

Thanks,

CSR

[NickHolt]

Also, if a car is claimed and auctioned off on the front strait is anyone allowed to bid on the car or is it reserved for the drivers in that race?

 

Thanks,

CSR

The only time that an auction would take place is when the track itself claims a car. If Driver X claims Driver Y's car, no auction would take place and only Driver X would get the car.

 

Here's the rule.

The top three finishers in the feature are subject to a car claim by a driver finishing 4th or back, still running on the lead lap. The selling driver has the option of an outright purchase for $800 in cash or an exchange of cars and $500 cash. Claim must be made on the front straight at the conclusion of the event to the race officials. Claiming driver must not pit after the race and must drive immediately to the claim area on the front straight and must have the appropriate cash on his person in order to claim another car. San Antonio Speedway has the option to claim any Grand car as an outright buy for $800 cash and the car will be auctioned off on the front straight to the highest bidder with an opening bid of $800 required. Personal items and racing seat and belts may be removed. Failure to honor claim will result in automatic disqualification and two race week suspension. The second refusal will result in a suspension for the remainder of the season.

 

Nick Holt

[Pappy_GT13]

I have a 6 gal. boat tank I use on my generator that is one year old.It fell about one foot from a wagon last week.The cap cracked,came off & spilled fuel all over the ground. These tanks are not safe on any track,let alone a fast 1/2 mile like S.A.I don't want anyone to get burnt ,but I really don't want to get burnt because someone elses car isn't safe. JMO.

[rebelracewriter]

Guys claim rules are made for a purpose. That purpose is NOT to be a break even deal if someone gets claimed! Look at IMCA's engine claim rule.......$525 plus 25 for th wrecker to pull it. Now where can someone build a motor for $525? It's to keep a guy from sticking 10K into a dirt modified motor and turning the show into a sleeper. This runs off spectators and other drivers not able to spend the 10K.

Now this year IMCA did add an "exchange" clause on the claim rule in two of their classes. Hopefully this will reduce grudge claims.

[thumper]

This claim rule looks a lot like the Thunder car claim rule at CC Speedway except thet the claim person is 4th and back.At CC the claim comes from the top 4.This way a person doesnt get stuck with a pile of junk traded for a well tuned car.My biggest problem with the SAS rules are,the track has absolute power to say who races and can take away a championship by claiming someones car and not giving that driver a car to race the next week.The track should have a house car to trade like anyone else.I dont believe in giving a promoter that much power.I have seen this power abused and the disastourious results.What if someone at the track doesnt like the racer?Doesnt want that person to win a championship?Politics so to say.They can say,get out,your too good or claim the car every week.I say you dont have to be well liked to be a good racer.Who can build a car in a week every week?Certainly not an underfunded person racing in an entry class. RGS ruined their Thunder program by loosing the claim rule and then trying to eliminate the contestants with driver restrictions,going from over 20 cars weekly to 5 cars weekly.CC Speedway,always cost aware,opened the class to anybody and made a car available to anybody being claimed by requiring a car exchange.They have a very suscessful program.South Texas Speedway has adopted the same pholosiphy and will have similar results.When you loose a driver by abuse,you loose all his friends and family and create a group of people who hate racing in general.......And a fuel cell should be considered a personal safty item and stay with the driver like seat belts,fire bottle,seat,or any generic item that is soley for driver protection.Safty is the upmost concers,especially at a hi speed track like SAS.......And if any modified or late model driver thinks they can beat me on my track in my kind of car I say go for it.Maybe you can teach me something.....Thumper

[CommonSenseRacing]

San Antonio Speedway has the option to claim any Grand car as an outright buy for $800 cash and the car will be auctioned off on the front straight to the highest bidder with an opening bid of $800 required.

Here's why I was confused about this issue;

 

San Antonio Speedway has the option to claim any Grand car as an outright buy for $800 cash and the car will be auctioned off on the front straight to the highest bidder with an opening bid of $800 required.

 

Highest bidder to me means anyone, highest bidding driver is very clear. Thank you, for answering my question.

[NickHolt]

Thumper,

 

Sure sounds like you were in on some of the discussions we had about the claim rule...LOL

 

The good thing about the SAS classes is that the next class up - the Road Runners - is a pretty basic class too. If the experienced drivers you are thinking about really wanted to, they could get into a Road Runner pretty cheap too. And, if you'll notice, the part about experienced drivers isn't even in the actual rules. It's in the part where we talk about what the class is designed for...

This class is intended to be a fun, inexpensive, class for beginners. This class is not intended for experienced racers.

 

Does that mean that is someone is not having fun they will be DQ'd? LOL.. Same is true with the level of experience. We're just trying to say what the class is for rather than making it a rule that you have to have fun or that you can only have so many races under your belt...

 

And I can understand why you would rather not have the track make any claim decisions. But, for better or for worse, that's how racing organizations operate - they make the rules and try to enforce them.

 

Nick Holt

[REBELRACER]

i was wondering something. lets say for instance the winner of the race got their car claimed by the track. they get $800 cash. then the track auctions off the car on the front stretch with the opening bid starting at $800. lets say that a few people in the stands want the car and by some stroke of luck the car goes for $1000 (lets just say)........what happens to that extra $200? does the track pocket the $200 or does the money go into the drivers point fund?..........just a question

[PAPA]

After reading on here about the concerns of the claim rule all I can say is...Terry will see to it that it doesnt get out of hand. He has done more for local racing and has keep his word on everything. Give this class a chance and trust Terry. JMO

[NickHolt]

i was wondering something. lets say for instance the winner of the race got their car claimed by the track. they get $800 cash. then the track auctions off the car on the front stretch with the opening bid starting at $800. lets say that a few people in the stands want the car and by some stroke of luck the car goes for $1000 (lets just say)........what happens to that extra $200? does the track pocket the $200 or does the money go into the drivers point fund?..........just a question

Good question, Danny. I was hoping it would go to the Nick Holt retirement fund, but ... sigh.. I don't think so.

 

So, I'll take my own advice and give Terry Dickerson a call for the answer...

 

Nick Holt