What is the traditional pathway to getting on track at asphalt Short Tracks in Texas and elsehwere?

[MikePeters95]

Figured this would be a good place to learn some.  I am making this topic to the limited community at Lone Star Speed Zone and not to be plastered all over social media where every Tom, Dick, and Harry as well as the kids who rent cars or have their parents pay for everything can chime in.  So I still identify as new to asphalt short track stuff, but I've done off-road racing, road course, drifting, and some other stuff, and I'm good friends with some guys who still run Trans-Am, IMSA, and get to tag along to the occasional NASCAR race every once in a while.  I've had the opportunity to do a lot of instructing in arenas all over the country as well, Anyways, over the last 20 years I've become quite accustomed to showing up, and drivers meetings, as well as being in many venues where anyone new is really given all the information to succeed and not kill someone.  I own all my equipment outright, and I make about double the average American households income.  I make enough to race, but I don't make enough to constantly repair a racecar, and I don't have the time and money to replace the entire nose and bumper on my Pro Truck every single race.  The tire bill every race is also stupid, but that's part of it I guess, even though the Cobra Tires have been proven to last an entire season, but we're on American Racer kool-aid at this time still.  Anyways, I feel like I am at a point in life where I can be able to campaign a mid-level for fun racecar I can go play with in the circle track community.  But I have some major concerns and I'd like to lay it all out and get some feedback on it. 

I post this hoping not to have a bunch of random negative feedback, or the typical character assassination and name calling and behind-the-back-beta-male-bullshit that so often happens with motorsports and folks with low self esteem. 

Anyhow, a while back I sold my Dad's truck he impulse bought off Facebook to my friend Archie.  Archie I feel like is a guy a track would want there.  He is a successful business owner, has a family, and he's an all around good guy.  Pretty sharp too.  Anyways, he buys this Pro Truck after getting the itch after on a random impulse applying and getting accepted to run Cleetus Mc Farland's Danger Ranger 9000, which I got to tag along to.  Anyways, let's talk about Archie's experiences and I am trying to figure out if this is normal or not as I feel like it's a pretty big problem. 

I want to stop here and say that I greatly appreciated what Owen, Karl, Terry and their team are doing at HMP.  I do not want to detract from that, and they're doing an excellent job with the extremely limited resources they have.  This is not a negative jab at them in any ways but an inquisition to constructive forward progress at HMP.

I went to HMP Saturday night like I do most the time, but I left my truck at my shop where it's been since the first race of the season.  I heard from several of my friends that I've made in the last year that Terry was asking for feedback from folks like me who have parked our racecars and aren't coming out so Terry can understand why and fix it.  Which is why I want to circle back to Archie.

Archie went and tested a few times, and got where he could turn laps and wanted to go race.  Archie was out of town first race so had Corey Winnie run the truck, which was fine, but the truck was scored under Archie.  Fast forward to the next race in the story.

Archie shows up still super green.  During the race Rick Pollaro and Ryder Wells break away to a 4 second lead for Pollaro and about 3 seconds ahead of third for Wells.  It's a rare Pro Truck race that isn't a destruction derby.  Not yet.  Archie gets into a 4 or so lap side by side battle with Doug Gibson in the old Boyd / Boyette owned 9 and neither of them can get around each other.  The blue flag is waved at them 3-4 laps in a row as Pollaro closes in to lap them as they battle for last place.  Eventually Archie's truck has a brake line blow off, he blows the corner, spins the 9, and the 96 of Pollaro and 24 of Wells pile in absolutely destroying the front of both their trucks.  

For a few days this agitated me to no end.  My buddy Archie, who isn't dumb and doesn't have a lick of stupid in his body, did one of the dumbest things I've ever seen on a track.  The passing flag is displayed, and him and the 9 just keep battling, for literally, last position, and then destroy the two guys leading the race.  How could someone as intelligent as Archie do something so...dumb?

I talked to Archie about it, knowing that he was embarrassed and upset about it, and rightfully so.  "Why didn't you move" was my biggest question.  I couldn't comprehend it.  After talking to Archie I realized that the only preparation he received to get on track was signing the sign sheet to get into the back gate.  I talked to some buddies about this, and thought back to the first time I ran.  I really never got a crash course on anything, and after asking some other folks, I realized that at HMP this seems pretty normal.

When I go to a drift event, there is a mandatory drivers meeting.  It's about 30 minutes to an hour even at a practice day. The flags are gone over, track direction is gone over, literally anything that could cause damage or kill someone is gone over in detail.  This is a non-competition drift event.  It's us being idiots destroying tires for fun.  The drivers meeting is several orders of magnitude greater than anything I've seen at HMP.

If I go attempt to race SCCA or NASA, first I have to go to competition school, and get a license, unless I have references.  Then I have to potentially have an instructor ride along (this was a long time ago, obviously, but still there is a very steep barrier to entry).

Off-Road and desert racing, you can easily kill someone out there, they're pretty in depth too..

......So this is where I'd like to get to my question.  Again, I am not being negative, but I am genuinely asking.  At HMP it seems you pay your gate fee, hop in the competition vehicle you own, or are leasing for the day, or your parents leased for you, strap in, and fly out on track.  So far this season I've seen things that just blow my mind.  Jim Teague ducking into the pits from the top of the track under green.  Brandon Leonard pick up the rear tires on a truck leading and almost turn them into the pace car, then turn them into the inside wall on a restart.  I've seen competition vehicles going counter race on a hot track.  Last weekend I watched several vehicles going different directions on track, including safety.  I saw the safety truck even cut off a car being pushed in the pits with zero situational awareness.  I've seen zero situational awareness with trucks wrecking 10 seconds after a caution is out.  It appears that based on Archie's story, and in hind sight what I've seen as well, that there is little to no training, vehicle egress training, making sure people understand the flags, when to give and take, why you shouldn't dive three wide on an apron after you've been running in the back 50% of the field all night and total one of the most contributing members of HMP's community (when the 9 truck was totalled by someone that I understand was in a rental truck), or the repeated nonsense of certain people just wrecking everyone every race like pissed off teenagers.  What sucks the most is the folks I've met are cool off track, but you see them do some things off the track, tear up $50,000 of other folk's stuff, then just joke about it.  That's really not cool at all.  

Anyways, I'm sure you're thinking, ''there is a question there'' if you even bothered to read all that.  There is.  

What's the normal way for someone to get on track?  Everywhere else it seems there are age restrictions, a dedicated youth class instead of random kids under the age to buy alcohol or cigarette's, who's parents are paying a damage clause on a piece of equipment and their kid is driving like it's Mario Kart, and they're distributed in every class instead of just one.  Then you realize that to get on track, the only barrier to entry is buying a wrist-band at the gate.  There is no attendance taken at drivers meeting, there is no verifying the person understands basic flags, motorsports etiquette, even how to safely get on and off the track, and then you have folks who have been doing this for a quarter of a century who can't figure out how to safely enter the pits, or not wreck someone before the green flag even comes out.  

The drivers at HMP have to take some serious responsibility here.  They can't go to Owen, Karl, and Terry and expect them to do everything.  It's unreasonable to have them babysit the entire group.  That is not sustainable. I feel like the drivers need to step up, which as Nick and some other folks know I tried to structure something like this when SPRS started but Alverson dropped the ball on it (like he has done on anything he's touched) where classes had 3 or so drivers to help with some these issues, but at the same time, what have you seen some the other tracks doing historically that worked?

Again keep it constructive.  We can make fun of Alverson because nobody likes that guy, but I'm genuinely asking what you more experienced oval track folks have seen here in Texas and around the country.

I know the typical "That's just how the community works sometimes" but if any of you have been in communities outside circle track community, which are absolutely flourishing btw, they don't put up with some the nonsense I've seen, but at the same time, they also have a lot of volunteers, most of which are active drivers, and a lot of processes, structure, and drivers meetings and accountability systems.   I'm sure there are some systems that have been in place previously, and again, Owen, Karl, and Terry are doing a great job, but they're only three people.  I feel like some folks need to take some initiative and help them with this here, but I am not sure what that looks like and would like to hear some of y'alls opinions on this.

Again I'm posting this in what I feel is a public area that is off-the-radar to most fans, or anyone who may see this as detrimental or harmful to HMP.  The few of you I've met know I'm not capable of wishing or doing harm to HMP or motorsports in general, so if you somehow read it as malicious, I do apologize but the intent of that just isn't there.  If I haven't really met you or talked to you in person much and you just need me to be an asshole that won't shut up, that's fine too, whatever you need to make you happy.  I've heard that's a thing apparently, I apologize I care enough to share opinions to try to improve something I think is cool, and that I truly believe that in an area that 7.21 million Americans live within an hour of, that we can get more than 1 in million of those folks to start coming and racing in each class, which numerically would be an improvement from where we are currently.  Again, to be fair, where we are is much better than 0 in a million, which is where the track was in June of 2022.  I truly believe with some work from the driver pool, HMP can build itself up huge with Owen, Karl, Terry and crew in charge, and we can reverse the trend of 20 trucks running on Dirt that used to run at HMP until people got tired of the BS and destruction which everyone says has been just accepted and 'the way it is' for a while now. 

The first race of the season I was in California with family.  My father-in-law watched the first race with me on Race on Texas.  He straight up asked me "This is fun to you?" which sadly, I had to reply no.  There was probably $100k of time and money torn up race 1 of 2023.  The last race before summer, I was at the track, and I had to go hang with the legends guys because I literally couldn't watch the destruction after the 9 truck got killed.  This last race was...it was better, but still some interesting stuff, the Legacy race was scary though.  I was there with quite a few friends, one of which had a foreign exchange student from Germany at his first oval race.  He had been hanging out at the shop and seen my truck, and was asking why I wasn't racing, told him I can't afford to wreck it.  About halfway through the truck race, this 13 year old German kid asks me "is there another race without all the rookies?  Is that why you don't want to race with them?".  It was kinda humorous at first, but after realizing what he said, it really made me start thinking about this.  I was told by several of my friends I need to talk to Terry, who again, seems like a great guy.  But I didn't see him flying around the track with a cape, he's not superman, and can't do everything, and asked me to put an email and some ideas together with the other drivers, so here we are.

I think HMP can do better than tearing up so much stuff every night. I think the caliber of driver in the pool can put on a better show than a kid who's never been to America thinking Pro-Trucks is a rookie class.  I think we can do better than destroying so much equipment for no reason every time the track is open...I think....Maybe...

Anyways, thanks for reading.  Probably a lot to unpack there, hopefully this can lead to some of your knowledge and experience helping out here.   I have some ideas I'll post in the replies.  I got to talk to Terry about some of this at the track Saturday night, and he really seems like a great dude.  He asked me to email him some of this as this is some the stuff we talked about, and out of respect for his time I feel like running this through some of you guys, I may get something much more purposeful and thought out, maybe even something turn-key I can email him.

Edited September 26, 2023 by MikePeters95

[MikePeters95]

A couple things I think would really improve things and results would be seen pretty quickly after talking to some folks Saturday night.

1.  Rookie and <2 year mandatory fundamentals meetings.  Any driver who hasn't been established at HMP *or* any driver in a rental is required to sit in a meeting, ran by drivers to help out current stretched thin staff, goes over the flags, the passing flag, lapping etiquette, how to get in/out of the pits, race direction, and verifies that all drivers can egress from their car in <15 seconds.  This is SOP in literally, every other motorsport I've seen that requires fire protection and a roll cage.  This also helps build reality of personality and faces to new racers helping them realize there are real folks driving these things, and they have to fix their stuff as well when it gets junked.  My friend Archie probably spent about $20k of his money to come race with all the gear and everything, and was, in my opinion, not really given even the most basic tools to safely get on track.  I had no clue and I feel awful about that.  I'll even look at myself in the mirror.  I showed up and was allowed to just jump in.  Who verified I had the slightest clue what I was doing?  

 

2.  Some sort of funnel to the rental nonsense.  It's like playing racer roulette with some these rental car kids.  I know I seem like I'm picking on them, but it's the same folks involved every time, unless it's a rental.  The other tracks I've seen have "Junior" classes for the rental kids who can't differentiate Mario Kart levels of responsibility from the real-world, and folks like the Area 51 team get to lose $25,000+ from the kids in rentals learning.  That's absolutely unacceptable. Sure the guys who occasionally rent to kids will be upset, but what's going to keep the track open, a rental car that shows up every once in a while, or the 3 trucks now that have been totalled this season by people driving a truck they don't own and may or may never come back. Once they wrote off someone else's equipment, that someone else isn't coming back.  How many times can we ask Rick Pollaro to spend his time and money to rebuild his truck and come run?  Same with Anthony Monroe, Jaron Hasley, Ryder Wells, etc. Colt Mize and Doug Gibson wont' get the opportunity to come back without buying a new chassis, and for literally no purposeful reason.  These rental cars that make up less than 5% of the field, that are junking 20% of the field, is a net loss, and needs to get figured out.  If folks want to try their hand at racing, there are enough Eco Stocks, Legends/Legacies out there to have a "Juniors" class where one of those platforms is picked, and that's where the rental folks can go until they demonstrate they're ready to run a higher class, where they will start at the rear until they demonstrate they can not destroy equipment.


Anyways, these are some the ideas, maybe I'm just living in a fairy tale land where I am overestimating the notion that some other drivers will step up and spend some time to help these two processes and maybe come up with some more.  Maybe I'm just an idiot who needs to shut his mouth like some the kids who's parents pay for their racecar have told me. Maybe.  

Edited September 26, 2023 by MikePeters95

[Flagman]

You bring up some interesting points, Trying to remember back when I started and don't remember getting much in the way of instructions.

 I answer questions about the different flags when asked. I have not put the effort into finding new drivers to explain things to.

  Running mini stocks all those years ago, the class was close and all the drivers made it a point to work with the new guys. Some tracks made you run a rookie stipe or marking on the back of the car so everyone new to watch.

I will try to think of some things that may help and welcome any input on what I can do from my position.

[HiTech]

9 hours ago, Flagman said:

You bring up some interesting points, Trying to remember back when I started and don't remember getting much in the way of instructions.

 I answer questions about the different flags when asked. I have not put the effort into finding new drivers to explain things to.

  Running mini stocks all those years ago, the class was close and all the drivers made it a point to work with the new guys. Some tracks made you run a rookie stipe or marking on the back of the car so everyone new to watch.

I will try to think of some things that may help and welcome any input on what I can do from my position.

 you mentioned mini stocks .   remember  steve  bobby   pops and i built alot of those cars without  pay  without  costing alot for  those rookies like 13  back to back   . . all the  while talking to those same drivers  the whats and nots  to do  ..  even though  you and i  very seldon  get behind the wheel anymore   we never  forgot  how to race ..    saturday morning  i met  a second time around driver  in the elevator  . from san antonio  he rented a legend car ...    running his second ever race .. ...     you have seen the glow a rookie puts out .. but also  dangerous glow .. lost in space  ... i  gave him  some  major advice   with out  his asking  he did  not know i use to drive .. till i said so and how many years  i have been working on cars    and such ..   the biggest  thing i told him  was keep it between the lines do not drive  past his paycheck   do not wreck someone  and pay attention   to the flags ..and do noit move up or down with the leaders go to pass you ..  the leaders have seen  where u are racing  long before they get to u .stay  there ..  ...   just a few on  the list   i mentioned to him .. i hope it helped him ..  always always  talk to a rookie  .i do  .. you are not just teaching that person  . when also  it can save your car form being destroyed ..  .. 

[MikePeters95]

2 hours ago, HiTech said:

 you mentioned mini stocks .   remember  steve  bobby   pops and i built alot of those cars without  pay  without  costing alot for  those rookies like 13  back to back   . . all the  while talking to those same drivers  the whats and nots  to do  ..  even though  you and i  very seldon  get behind the wheel anymore   we never  forgot  how to race ..    saturday morning  i met  a second time around driver  in the elevator  . from san antonio  he rented a legend car ...    running his second ever race .. ...     you have seen the glow a rookie puts out .. but also  dangerous glow .. lost in space  ... i  gave him  some  major advice   with out  his asking  he did  not know i use to drive .. till i said so and how many years  i have been working on cars    and such ..   the biggest  thing i told him  was keep it between the lines do not drive  past his paycheck   do not wreck someone  and pay attention   to the flags ..and do noit move up or down with the leaders go to pass you ..  the leaders have seen  where u are racing  long before they get to u .stay  there ..  ...   just a few on  the list   i mentioned to him .. i hope it helped him ..  always always  talk to a rookie  .i do  .. you are not just teaching that person  . when also  it can save your car form being destroyed ..  .. 

Sounds like you've met Colton.  I know what you mean with excitement.  I'm a burned out POS and he makes me remember why I like motorsprots, because he likes motorsports, haha.  

He races in one of the iRacing leagues I help run and takes in a lot of info.  I do have to say one tool we have in 2023 that is underutilized a lot is iRacing.  Yeah it's a video game, but the racecraft and consequences (minus the hospital and repair bill) still apply. Tried to get an official iRacing thing going when Alverson was there but...ball dropped.  I should probably proposition Owen / Karl / Terry about that for the kids since they seem to actually care and know what's going on.  

Thanks everyone who's read this for not just being a huge dick.  I feel like this is a concern that can easily be corrected with some manpower I was just trying to see if I was crazy or not.  Talked to a couple buddies since the weekend that have been on/off at HMP and they all indicated the barrier to entry comes and goes depending on who's in charge.  All agreed we could certainly step up and do better.  

[Flagman]

HiTech, Those were the days i thought of first. Back then if someone was having problems just about the entire class was over trying to help. we were racers but also friends and we all worked together. The rain out day we all went to the go cart track in north beach showed just how much we all enjoyed things as a group.

Mike, I agree if people would work together instead of treating each other as enemies, the fun would be back for all.

[NickHolt]

Stock car Racers (and their team members) are typically highly competitive, goal-driven and, quite often, addicted to the adrenal rush associated with high-stakes competition.  The goal is to win while not pissing off too many of their fellow competitors and sanctioning officials. While some may actually seek to add to the collective good of the racing organization and its members as a whole, that is usually not the case - at least in my experience as a race official for many, many years.

Frankly, expecting racers to self-police for the good of the whole is not a realistic plan - never has been, never will be. 

The late Neil Upchurch was a hardhead dictator who ran the most successful stock car racing program that Texas has ever known. He ran the TIDA like he was King of the World and took no gruff from anyone. He made the rules and if you didn't like them, well, too bad.  He did not cave to the wishes of the well-financed teams or the front-runners.  If you questioned Neil's authority, you were likely to find yourself looking for somewhere else to race.  He demanded respect and got it because he was consistently going by his rules no matter what anyone thought. 

He did take advice from a select few folks (I was one of those), but you had to be willing to follow Neil's decisions no matter what. If not, you were gone. I left his team after he ignored my advice one to many times.

Love him or hate him, Neil ran a tight ship and his racing ventures were all very successful. 

The point is that it takes a strong leader with no vested interest in any particular race team, an in-depth knowledge of the sport (including its history and what works and what doesn't), and a single-minded goal of making the organization successful no matter what. 

Owen is great, but he and his team have inherited a bunch of problems and a nearly impossible mission at HMP.  I have watched (and worked with) Owen for a number of years, and if anyone can address many of the concerns Mr. Peters has identified, it's Owen.

Nick 

  

[MikePeters95]

Appreciate you chiming in.  I agree he's a solid dude, but he's also one dude, running three tracks.  Maybe I should hit him up also instead of just Terry.  I'll try to make some time this week to do that, buried myself at work as I'm either going to finally do all the updates to my it-was-competitive-10-years-ago truck or sell it and do something else. 

Really want to update all the suspension and put the five star body on it and clean it up and update it some but that class is just so unnecessarily destructive. There is awesome racing leaning on each other then there is what's been happening. 

While he inherited an impossible task all my friends who go now and I observed same thing.  Stands weren't full to the point of adding more in Turn 1 & 4, but they were pretty packed, looked really, really, really good.