racerx Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 Josh, the issue was not about you...yours just happened to be a truck that didn't meet the specs...Terry Barden did not tell me what the specific issue was, only that it was not legal but you would be allowed to race and it would need to be fixed next time...Bubba said it was not a factor in your performance...now a truck is being DQ'd for something similar...it is not about you or your truck, just a consistant application of the rules...you were given a one race break, why not the 5? Two people have told me good stuff about you, Colt & Steve Moore...sometimes stuff doesn't come across like it is meant to in e-mail and message boards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arts22 Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 LL, I dont see them changing the DQ, it might take some time away from something else or its just easier to say no, than to work out a penalty process(for the trucks).....BUT for Terry giving 1 truck a break and not another IS WRONG.......If one person gets a break everyone should get a break if its not performance enhancing.........Wayne Norrell did what he was suppose to do.........It then became Terry's job to give the DQ or to look further into it and remember other situations that have just occurred but that wasnt the case. That was my first time to meet Wayne Norrell and he is going to be good for the trucks......The SLM drivers change Terry's mind all the time on rules. What I see so far is the trucks are here to help pay the bills. If the SLM drivers get a majority vote on things, then why not the trucks..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProTree Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 at least the truck guys keep it interesting-one week a ??able rear end-one week ??able valve springs-one week ?? able control arm parts-next ??able _____-as the ole saying goes-THEM BOYZ RACIN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 That was my first time to meet Wayne Norrell and he is going to be good for the trucks...... Wayne Norrell will indeed be good for the trucks. I've known Wayne a lot of years and in a lot of different contexts. He's a straight shooter with a ton of integrity. He's a good listener and a great guy, but don't be expecting him to play the "give in to the loudest complainer" game. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arts22 Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 Nick, it not about whos louder its about being FAIR, I didnt no you could hear me....lol..... Its out of Waynes hands, its Terry and Terry's decision..... Have you set in on the drivers meeting....... Nothing is ever talked about or discussed with the trucks, The SLM drivers get to voice their opinion and 10 out of 10 times they get what they want....... Nick if you gave a car a break would you give another the same break if it was not performance enhancing.......and very similiar? YES OR NO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 Nick if you gave a car a break would you give another the same break if it was not performance enhancing.......and very similiar? YES OR NO? If you give someone a break, you almost have to give others the same break. That's why I kept it pretty much black and white when I was Comp Dir at SAS, Comp Dir at THR, Chief Tech at TPS and now helping Wayne with the TAMS mods. There have been times when I have been bashed beyond belief for calling races using this "black and white" approach, but if you don't do it that way you open up the same can of worms that has been opened over the aluminum suspension piece. There were many times when my natural instinct would have been to "give someone a break." But I honestly believe that most racers would rather have someone calling the shots who didn't give breaks for whatever reason. Let's say I give you a break on something one week. From then on you are going to assume that I am giving breaks to others - especially my friends or those who have some sort of financial relationship with the series or track. To me, that's the wrong way to keep the playing field level. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerx Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 I had heard Wayne was going to be doing some R&D stuff, but didn't realize he was the one tech'ing the trucks last Saturday...Lil Bill told me that part had been on since a bad wreck in 2003, it was the only replacement they could find and he had just forgotten...that was a whole lot of tech's the 5 truck had been through...guess we don't have to guess how thorough and knowledgable Mr. Norrell is...very impressive...is he going to do it every week or at least train and oversee those that do? The application of the rules is still very perplexing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REBELRACER Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 Let's say I give you a break on something one week. From then on you are going to assume that I am giving breaks to others - especially my friends or those who have some sort of financial relationship with the series or track. or else the same person is going to continue to cheat in other areas being that you let him get away with it this time.........black and white is the best way to go......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerx Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 black and white is the easiest way...in no way do I think the 09 or 5 intended to cheat in any way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundogC3 Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 I'm behind that 100% as an bystander...those guy's aren't cheaters...I've known the Cheek's for a while..and they are a great family, and they where allowed to race....and Bill it's all about the short's..great folk's as well on that team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcellracing Posted May 31, 2005 Report Share Posted May 31, 2005 Amen Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 black and white is the easiest way...in no way do I think the 09 or 5 intended to cheat in any way... Larry, "Intended" is the operant word in your post. The guy who strangled his mother-in-law may never have intended to hurt her, but he's still going to have to pay the penalty for doing the deed. And the guy who runs aluminum parts where they are not permitted will have to pay the penalty whether he intended to cheat or not. Even if you bought every official in Central/South Texas one of them there "Yet-To-Be-Invented Intent Meters," I'll still vote for officiating races as black and white as possible. Racers are smart and they would figure out a way to get around the "YTBIIM" in no time flat. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerx Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 The guy who strangled his mother-in-law may never have intended to hurt her, but he's still going to have to pay the penalty for doing the deed. I think the jury is out on that until we hear more about the mother in law...if there was ever a case for extenuating circumstances.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arts22 Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 I agree 100% BLACK & WHITE, but thats not what happened, If you give one person a break(not performance enhancing) everyone else should get one break......That was the 09's break and this should be Bills break, its only fair........Next time either one of them have something illegal they get the DQ by their name........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProTree Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 i know on my end of the world-you lay the hammer down-then everybody gets the big picture pretty quick-no favors-regardless-everybodys on the same turf-and you stick to your guns and have people to back you up-cause all it takes it for an offical to make a call and another one come behind him and change it-that will pretty much let the drivers know who to go to when somethings called on em-but if your people back you 100%, the drivers know its a done deal and accept it and learn from it-as i see it by reading and hearing about the trucks-theres a new sherriff in town and he goes by the BOOK-no ifs, ands, or buts, about it-so i woulld pull out the book and study it some more to make sure i was going by it just in case-bill could of had $700 but instead got $150-big difference for a cheap part that was overlooked from a few years ago- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jont66 Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 1.6 - Penalties 1.6.1 Violations of any ARTS rule or regulation by a licensed member may result in disqualification, suspension, loss of points, loss of purse, fines, or a combination of any of the aforementioned penalties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tqj3 Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 In addition to which, gang, you're beating a dead horse. Jon T. already posted an answer regarding the difference between this year and previous rulings: the series didn't have enough entries to take a chance on running any off, so he worked with the drivers as much as he could, maybe giving them until the next race to make the truck legal. This year, things are better and participation is up, so the organizers can call the rules the way they are. What's difficult to understand about that, and why are we continuing to bitch about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 I agree 100% BLACK & WHITE, but thats not what happened, If you give one person a break(not performance enhancing) everyone else should get one break......That was the 09's break and this should be Bills break, its only fair........Next time either one of them have something illegal they get the DQ by their name........ It would be better to call the 09 team and tell them they are being DQ'd from the race in Kyle earlier in the year. Problem solved!, as you said....its only fair.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerx Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 TQ, the issue with the 09 happened THIS year at our race with the highest truck count. The rules are not being consistently applied THIS year. It seems to be real easy just to write off some competitors this year. This guy gets a break, that guy get's the death penalty. No rhyme or reason. Seems to be only happening in the truck series, and happening with regularity. These types of calls seem to be made as an after thought. I know first hand Terry Dickerson values the Trucks series and it shows in how he promotes it. I am not sure people below him in the USRA organization feel the same way and it shows in how they call it. This may seem like a dead horse to those on the outside, but I can assure you it is not just about one truck or one or two people feeling this way. This incident, like others this year, is a symptom of a bigger problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasissman Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 i see a bigger problem here. to say the tech is gonna get this truck deal to be on a black an white no favors allowed follow the rule book to the letter then thats what i expect. the tech director has his work cut out an needs to assemble a team to tech these trucks early in the day before the race. to be fair to all competitors be like nascar as terry dickerson wants it to be. but to do that each an every truck needs to be inspected first an owners told what isnt right with the truck. takes alot of time an personel but you terry dickerson an terry barden have not left much choice in the matter. there are new people in this seris an they can read the rule book but dont have a clue what the previous owners did to the trucks. are you just going to wait till they run good tech them an bust em not good way to do it i dont think. the rule book has not been followed in 4 yrs an then spring a new tech man on us with out an inspection of all trucks. not a good deal at all. so i expect a clear following of all the rules at all times. USRA you have put all us in an awkward position so show us how it can be done right so just get tech group together an inspect every one of the trucks like nascar is all i ask Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasissman Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 the truck rule book really needs to be looked at an changes made the no alum bar on a frame was made 7 yrs ago. because afco made a metric ball joint steel cross shaft a arm well its no longer manufactured an the ball joint rule was changed. but it does say no alum cross shaft an yes it was on the 5 truck the left one was steel cross shaft but rf got damaged in sanantonio an was replaced with a arm that was given to bill from a latemodel team didnt cost a penny well should spent 60 bucks i guess an wouldnt got busted o well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KISS_Racing Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 As long as we are talking rule book. I asked the question several weeks ago, which Carb are we supposed to be running? Is everyone running "THE SECRETLY MARKED" Quick Fuel Carb? I plan on running the 3 remaining races here in SA and one of the Kyle races. This is just a question and not an attempt to ask anything other than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 Specific tech questions and specific rules questions should be addressed to Terry Barden. Terry Dickerson and Terry Barden have both stated on many occasions that if you have a tech question to call Terry Barden. As far as I know, this has not changed. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 i see a bigger problem here. to say the tech is gonna get this truck deal to be on a black an white no favors allowed follow the rule book to the letter then thats what i expect. the tech director has his work cut out an needs to assemble a team to tech these trucks early in the day before the race. to be fair to all competitors be like nascar as terry dickerson wants it to be. but to do that each an every truck needs to be inspected first an owners told what isnt right with the truck. takes alot of time an personel but you terry dickerson an terry barden have not left much choice in the matter. there are new people in this seris an they can read the rule book but dont have a clue what the previous owners did to the trucks. are you just going to wait till they run good tech them an bust em not good way to do it i dont think. the rule book has not been followed in 4 yrs an then spring a new tech man on us with out an inspection of all trucks. not a good deal at all. so i expect a clear following of all the rules at all times. USRA you have put all us in an awkward position so show us how it can be done right so just get tech group together an inspect every one of the trucks like nascar is all i ask Of course, you are exactly correct in your assessment that rules should be perfect and perfectly enforced at all times. However, there's only one small problem. There isn't a local series anywhere that can assemble and pay a professional tech team to make that happen. Isn't there some reasonable middle ground between the 100% enforcement and the "let it slide" approaches? I think there is -- and that is what you are going to find with Mr. Norrell. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundogC3 Posted June 1, 2005 Report Share Posted June 1, 2005 If it get's like NASCAR, I'm getting out. Yes i have sponsor's..BUT...my budget isn't 25million a year..I'm just bareley making to every race right now.. There was something said at the Houston driver's meeting about Wayne visiting every team in the future...I wish he would, look my truck over from top to bottom, mark everything on it if necassary..maybe that could cut out what's going on right now...jmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.