Mel Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 Please don't take this as a negative post. With all of the different muffler systems available, why doesn't THR do the testing themselves. I am sure there are plenty of teams that would gladly participate. Test several different muffler systems and come up with the one that best fits the track's needs, and write it in the rules that everyone of the racers must use this muffler. There would be no question of whether or not you will be trailered! It would seem to be in their best interest to do everything they could to insure no racers have to load because of noise. I understand that nobody likes to trailer cars. I'm sure nobody wants to be trailered either. Yes, that is a necessary evil but, if everyone had the same muffler then wouldn't that eliminate that problem alltogether? Nobody wants to loose THR, we all want to race there and see crowds grow, along with car counts. Am I way off base here? Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie49 Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 I've never been there, been planning on going, so maybe I don't have much standing to say anything about THR, but it sounds like that is an excellent solution to a sticky problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jracer98 Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 Why would you want to invalidate pre existing mufflers that meet the spec? Why should a person have to scrap something to replace it with an "equivilent"? That is a needless expense for me. Some of these custom built racing mufflers are multi hundred dollar deals not including dyno time. Saying that X muffler will be acceptable is a long way from saying you must have X muffler to race here. Just my opinion. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel Posted June 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 Jracer98, That is exactly what I am talking about. Noone would spend all the money you speak of on these expensive muffler systems if they were all using the same one. You would save and so would everyone else. More importantly you wouldn't need to be concerned if you were too loud. Just concentrate on getting faster. It would seem to be advantageous to everyone concerned. Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jracer98 Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 HUMOR--->That's the way my wife "saves" me money, by buying things! I wouldn't save a dime. I would have to put my muffler on the shelf and buy a new one. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direct-flo Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 what ever it takes Mel. Instead of telling the drivers that they have to meet a db level...why not tell them they have to meet the db level with THIS MUFFLER. If a big budget team could afford a multi-hundred dollar muffler system compared to the small guys 25 dollar muffler.....does any one gain an advantage on the track.....I believe right now the concern is the noise level....not whether or not a certain high dollar muffler is being used...and/or that driver has an advantage. great points all. tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMSCHEIDRaceServices Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 Just wondering if the guys who have been trailered got there monies back or atleast a rain check or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 Mel, Your question is probably not a bad thought, and it sounds like THR is doing exactly that. They have done the test you suggest at various times during practice and db checks. They have then approached several drivers who were the quietest to find out what they were running. They then discussed mandating one of two mufflers for next year - the Howe 2 into 1 system or the Coleman 2 into 1. But now I'm not sure that's the way to handle this. Here's the kicker - the 2 car got ahead of the game and bought the Howe system and paid to have it installed - awesome looking system. He checked at 101 db today in the first practice; the same as he checked before the changes. Our team, on the other hand, purchased a 6"x16" dynomax round muffler similar in shape/size to the 18" Coleman and stuck it on the end of our existing Y pipe. We checked at 94db. Our muffler cost us $75. So what I'm trying to say is that mandating a $300 exhaust system won't always get the cars under the 96db rule. The entire motor combination seems to play heavily into this - cam specs, heads, etc. So I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think the spec muffler is necessarily the way to go. Here's a question - if the track specifies a certain exhaust system and the car still checks over 96db, what then? Do you get trailered still? I think by mandating a certain muffler, the track limits their ability to deal with those cars that still don't pass. I think the best rule is the current one - tell people what the limit is, maybe make some recommendations, and leave it up to the teams to develop a system AND motor combination that passes. If all else fails, we can all stick a mondo 24" Coleman under our cars. cs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direct-flo Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 a 300 dollar muffler,,,,our class is installing a 25.00 muffler.....took a 101db car down to a 92-94 db. I think what mel was saying was......THR test low cost mufflers that meet the db rule....Then have ALL the classes use the same muffler....low cost, equal advantage if any. what about a free 25' dirt mound wrapping around from turn 4 to just past the pits? take all the steps instead of one at a time.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jracer98 Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 Value is a tougher thing to define rather than initial price. The Spin Tech system I have IS more expensive than some other mufflers but is does not contain any "packing" that degenerates and lets the muffler get a little louder each time the car runs. Is it more expensive than a Coleman system, initially? Yes. Is it more expensive than a Coleman system that has been repacked once. No. Is a system that works "mechanically" WORTH the extra dollars (to me) compared to one that will lose effectiveness, gain db's, and unexpectedly trailer me one day? Yes. What is not making that long MAD pull back to Dallas worth? Priceless. Cheaper means nothing to me without knowing something about time/service life. There are less expensive tires available for my truck and trailer than what's on them. Just my opinion, Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 direct-flo, what about a free 25' dirt mound wrapping around from turn 4 to just past the pits? A 25-foot tall dirt mound would need a base width of 75 feet at a 20 angle. Such a wall would not fit between the run-off area on the back straight and the property line. Most of the dirt would be on the on the neighboring property. Even if we constructed a 25 foot mound with a 45 degree angle (impossible, by the way), we wound need a 50 foot base which would again spill well onto the neighboring property. There just isn't enough room to fit anything that big back there due to the run-off area which is present on the back straight. We are looking at a wide variety of other options such as a line of trees on our property line and another line of trees on the subdivision's property line. However, this is very expensive if we purchased the mature trees it would take to make an effective sound barrier right from the start. There are other options (sounds walls, etc) that might be available and the track management is looking at all options. In the meantime, we will continue to monitor sound levels on a weekly basis. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direct-flo Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 Thanks Nick, I figured ya'll thought of that. just because something cost more-does not always mean its better....Not meaning one should cut corners...Just think that a less expensive muffler can and will perform the same....Will a 300 dollar muffler add to the performance, or better yet- will a less expensive muffler take away performance. If 2 equal cars installed mufflers, one costing 300 plus, the other 75.00....would the car with the 300 muffler gain an advantage on the track. jus wondering Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jracer98 Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 That's a good point. If you review the earlier "muffler" posts I think it is clear that I am mainly interested in keeping the new tams racer below the noise spec "on the first try". It's worth the money, to me, to get comfortably under the spec and not have to worry about it. I don't absolutely know the following to be true but I believe that there aren't huge performance GAINS in mufflers when you are comparing upper level products to each other. I believe that there is more of a potential for performance LOSS in the cheaper, under engineered choices. Just my opinion Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poorboy Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 When I ran at Thr in 2002 with my TAMS car I had alot of trouble trying to keep it quiet. The first time I went I spent 75 to 100 dollars and passed. The next time I went it wouldn't pass , again I was running around the track buying more cheap mufflers. This was taking away from my time trying to make my car fast, I was trying to make it quiet. And guess what, the next time I went the same thing it wouldn't pass. I think I only ran ther 3 times that year and sold the car but when the new owner showed up with it it didn't pass again. By the good stuff and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegacyByStander Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 what about a free 25' dirt mound wrapping around from turn 4 to just past the pits? {"Dirt Mound From Pits to between 3 and 4"} It's not the db level @ the track (or 100' off the track) its the level @ the homes on the other side of the pasture from the back straight. I'm thinking that THR needs to find out the maximum db level set by the city of Kyle @ the homes and maybe address how to "kill" the level by other means. Maybe have "dirty dirt" (funny phrase) brought in from construction companies and let them dump for free to build a "sound" wall. This is just another idea. Which is the purpose of a thread like this. Maybe there are opinions that can add to this or even kill it but let's come up with something. I feel saving the venue for all racers and fans needs to be the focus of all involved with THR. This may be the biggest saver of the track over all (or not). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SASPEEDRACER24 Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Nick how about a 20-30 ft high solid wall from the back of the pit area to the end of the runoff of turn 3? Can use it for Sponsors as well It may not be the most astheticly pleasing idea but I would be willing to bet it will cut down the db level at the mobile homes... Before you know it THR is going to have to erect some kind of bubble over the property to keep the sounds in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegacyByStander Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 Nick, I apologize for not reading all the way down before posting. Got typing, distracted, and came back later to post. Another thought is corregated steel. The way the waves are integrated into the steel tends to "deaden or dull" the sound waves. If the steel is angled up and away from the track it will tend to disrupt the noise, and keep it from reaching the homes. This idea is similar to what you may have seen at any airport. (The only difference is the curvature of the steel at an airport is to push the jet blast upward.) Between all of the people involved with THR you should be able to find someone to supply the needed construction knowledge and materials at a minimal cost. And it would make a great place to post ads (like a billboard). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUNAR Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 If anyone can come up with a solution it would be nick holt. he has a vast amount of knowledge in that head of his, to much for me to fatham, nick hurry up and come up with an inexpensive but effective solution. i would even help pay for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direct-flo Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 put a sign up fronting the service road... CLEAN FILL WANTED..leave number. They will call....best case you get a contractor doing a large project..If they have a place to unload- in some cases they will even doze it for you.. ?TomH? p.s. what ya got to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Here's the problem Tom. The base of a tall dirt pile that would be tall enough to block sound would spill over into the corn field out back. I'm pretty sure the rancher who cultivates that field would not appreciate that very much. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direct-flo Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 how wide Nick?? use the dirt as a starting point, put the billboards on top, cedar trees, banana trees....I have seen many earth mounds that had a narrow base...not talking 50 feet here...anything would be better than whats there...lay some dirt down ( even 10 feet tall, hell I dont know) put those billboards on top.... 10 feet plus billboards has got to be better than just billboards, dont ya think? TomH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Tom, We are looking at a wide variety of possible sound barriers. Dirt is certainly one of those options. Another option (suggested by our very own Jason) is to create a bamboo barrier. Bamboo grows like crazy and grows just about anywhere. We would have to put a barrier down in the earth between the track and the corn field, but at the moment it looks like a possible solution. I've just started to research this bamboo idea, so don't be asking too many questions about it because I probably won't have the answers yet. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlaw_stck Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 think about running off of the track into a bunch of bamboo.... it would be alot better than hitting dirt i bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direct-flo Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 do ya think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 how bout getting a dirt pile...and putting bamboo on top of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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