THR sound limits

[NickHolt]

I hate this more than you can imagine, but I had to trailer a few cars tonight for being too loud -- a THR Street Stock and three Allison Legacys.

 

I gave eveyone who didn't meet the 96 dB standard during the timed sessions a chance to make changes to their exhaust systems and try once more later on. But one was unable to meet the limit again while others were dramatically slower on the second try than on their first try and during practice. I am keeping records on lap times during practice and during time trials to make certain that people do not sandbag during the loudness runs.

 

Believe me, trailering perfectly good race cars is not what Thunder Hill Raceway management is all about. We are simply doing our very best to keep the track open in the face of a great deal of pressure from our neighbors and from the city of Kyle as well. Naturally, the Kyle city council people have to respoind to the needs of their citizens and we are doing our upmost to be great neighbors.

 

To those folks who didn't get to race tonight due to their being over the limit, I am really sorry that it happened and I hope you will be back to race with us in the future.

 

Nick Holt

[LEGACY]

Nick,do you remember witch Allison cars they where and what the db level was?They should have been able to remove turn-out kit and the exhaust would have exited under the car and down at track.Also if running big gear RPM will exceed 6300 and that will do it.Optimum RPM 5800 after that all noise no go!

 

Lloyd

[BobRiley]

Of the three cars too loud: #5 is an older car with, what the driver says, a worn out engine. The #55 car has a fresh ( one SAS race) engine. The #69 car is brand new from Allison. All three have legal and required, from Allison rulebook, exhaust systems. This is a spec class, therefore you must run the "stock, as from Allison" exhaust system, no modifications.

 

The #69 car was the loudest, one time hitting 101 dbs, with the others around 98. The turn down pipe was completely removed, with the timing retarded a little on the #69 car, at a max of 5800 rpm. This brought the level down to 98. I do not know the epecifics on #5 & #55.

 

I know the #69 can run a high line at THR; he will rub the wall, some of our fiberglass is 3rd generation already. Is this, next to the wall, the problem?

Please don't come up with this "exhaust system" idea as they are all the same. If your ATV is too loud, at a national park or California, going down to your Honda dealer and purchancing a new exhaust isn't going to eliminate the problem as there is no "less noisey" system aviliable. May be that's not a good example, but you get the idea. What do we do to fix this problem? I know there are some extremely talently racers in this area so any help would be nice as I know there are other classes with/or will have, the same problem. Please don't tell me get into another class or some other smart*** remark. I don't tell you what kind of beer to drink so please don't bad mouth my class, heck, someone out there knows how to make Shinner beer taste good, maybe we could try that on the Legacys??? Thanks for all the constructive suggestions.

[NickHolt]

Bob,

 

The #44 car recorded 92, 93, 94 dB while running in the high 17-second range. The #14 car recorded 95's in the high 17-second range. The #8 car was 94, 95,95 while turning in the high 17-second range. And here's the strangest one - the #56 car recorded 94's while turning in the low 17-second range! It's difficult to understand why some were able to easily meet the dB rules while others were not. Perhaps I am not well informed, but I understood that all the Legacy cars are all supposed to be identical, right?

 

I wish I had a suggestion for you, but I really don't. I know that some systems work better than others. For instance, the winner of the Street Stock feature at THR last night had readings in the 80's, the lowest readings I have recorded this year. On the other hand, the Street Stock that was not permitted to run had readings in the 100-101 range.

 

THR is enforcing the sound rule because the track is under a great deal of pressure from its neighbors and the City of Kyle to quiet down and we are doing all we can to be good neighbors. We are not doing this because we like to put people on the trailer.

 

And please be aware that I have been at the track every Thursday (except when practice has been rained out) since we opened this season and have tested many cars with the dB meter during these open practice sessions. Anyone wanting to get a handle on where their car is on the meter is welcome to come on out to these practice sessions.

 

Nick Holt

[Crew]

Bob,

Your analogies are a disgrace to the Allison Legacy Series, this is a very simple rule the must be met if cars will be able to race @ THR, what part of muffler can you not understand. If you so called spec. series does not allow mufflers then the only other option is not to race were db levels are a problem, does not seem to be that big of a question if you are racer and want to race, but then again you have to make a decision.

[supertx]

I have a question on this DB thing how do you caliberate your meter? Also is it set up at a measured distance and angle where you get a constant reading and if so what is the distance and angle ?

[BobRiley]

Nick..the exhaust system on all Legacy's comes directly from Allison and can not be modified. As I said earlier, #69 is brand new from Allison and it did not pass; but a "more experianced" system did. Doesn't make since to me either.

Crew...no where in my post did I use the word "muffler" . The Allison Legacy series is not a "so called" spec series. How many times have the Street Stocks, this year, raced at THR; yet one of their cars did not pass. This was our first trip to THR under the enforced db test format. None the less, it is my responsiability to make sure that track rules are followed, last night I failed and I accept the blame from my drivers and crew members. I am not one of the gifted an talented type, just some San Marcos white trash; that's why I asked for help with this problem. You, on the other hand, have been negative toward me, last week with Kyle Sirozzitti, now with this post. Grow up, you and your dad with have to get up a lot earlier to put me down. Why don't you show what you're made of and help others with a solution to this noise problem. The Legacy's are not the only class with this problem.

[Mel]

The three Allison cars that were trailered have practiced numerous times at THR. Were they ever checked w/db levels at practice and what were the results then. The Allison drivers that I spoke to were told "there is no way the Allison's will fail the db test" and that was a quote from a track official. This is why nobody was prepared to quiet their cars down.

 

I think the biggest factor last night was the way the wind was blowing hard straight at the trailer homes.

 

Question, is this db level a problem before 10:00 pm?

 

Anywho, it will not be hard to install a muffler in the center section of the tail pipe on any of the Allison cars. I think if anyone has a recommedation on which 3" muffler in/out would be a good choice. This is what information Bob and the legacy's need.

 

Your positive post are welcomed.

 

Mel

[Truck99]

Bob,

 

With the noise problem becoming more and more common nationwide, surely the legacies on a natinoal level have encountered a db requirement somewhere. Maybe you guys could tap the experience of another region somewhere that has already dealt with and fixed this problem. The legacy series rulebook should be flexible enough to allow for solutions to problems like this. If we can make a street stock pass the rule, the legacy cars can easily be made to pass with minor mods.

 

Just curious - do the legacy cars have a muffler at all or just smooth bore pipe exhausts?

 

Good luck to you in getting this problem handled.

 

Chase

[Truck99]

I think if anyone has a recommedation on which 3" muffler in/out would be a good choice. This is what information Bob and the legacy's need.

Mel,

 

I didn't see your post before I asked Bob if the cars had mufflers. If they currently have no muffler at all, you guys could use a dynomax bullet 3" in/out and probably do the trick. They are inexpensive and relatively small.

 

They didn't do the trick on the street stocks for the most part, but they should be very effective on the legacy cars. I think one street stock passed the db check using one (the 01 car I think.)

 

Chase

[NickHolt]

supertx,

I have a question on this DB thing how do you caliberate your meter? Also is it set up at a measured distance and angle where you get a constant reading and if so what is the distance and angle ?

 

Excellent questions. We have two identical dB meters and they produce identical readings when used side by side. Just like any other instrument or gauge that any track uses to enforce its rules, the instruments are the same for everyone whether or not they have been certified by a standards board before every event. The fact that we utilize two of them and that they read the same gives me confidence that we are being consistent in our enforcement.

 

We measure the cars about midway down the back straight (same place every time) with the meter pointed at a 90 degree angle to the track at a distance of 100 feet.

 

The bottom line here is that all cars are measured using the same procedures and dB meter.

 

The bigger bottom line is that there is no guarantee that even if THR were to set the sound limit at 80 dB at 100 feet that our Kyle neighbors will not approach the City Council to have the track shut down. We are simply doing our very best to demonstrate that we acting in good faith to be good neighbors by adopting the 96 dB rule and strictly enforcing it.

 

So, while your questions are excellent, I believe the bigger issue - being good neighbors - is the one we should all be more concerned about.

 

Nick Holt

[Banker36]

Bob,

 

I understand your frustration towards having to put a new exhaust in. My Dad and I worked from 8 in the morning till 6 in the evening on a saturday but still managed to make the race. On a Legacy Im not sure how your exhaust are but on our StreetStock we put a 24 inch Coleman in our car and Nick could not even get it to blow 90dbs.

[supertx]

Nick

 

I totally agree the neighbors are a problem. Thanks for your answers on the DB meter.

[direct-flo]

Crew...what car do you drive? I was in the #14 Allison and watched some of the other races after our race. wondering how you did.

 

I disagree with 2 statements

 

1) That the Allisons could race at some other track, where noise is not an issue.. We love racing at THR, and Mr. Callaway has been great in giving us all the race dates. (we will do whatever is needed to insure we meet the specs)...that statement was an easy way out-->quick fix.

 

2) that the mobile home park is the problem....open the eyes, the problem is the noise. Is it not the noise factor that has caused all these issues? Those folks have every right to live there, as does THR have the same right to operate a race track. The issue is noise, and a common ground has to be met. ( or NO ONE will be racing at THR)

 

Mel had a point: is there a code thing where the noise does not become a factor until a certain time of day.

 

I can't and will not speak for any driver other than myself. I felt that my car would not be a noise factor.. this was due in part to what I was told and the fact that my car sounds totally different sitting next to a 6 or 8 banger.

 

Some will say; you should have tested the car before Sat night, well the fact is one of our drivers had been at the track at least 7 times for private practice.

Many other cars in our series have been to THR for practice... as far as I know none of the cars where tested at that time. If one or two came close to the limit, I am sure at that time word would have gotten out for everyone to install a muffler of some sort.

 

I am not bucking the fact that something has to be done to our cars to race at THR. ( I want to race at THR with ya'll) what upset me was the fact that I was told my car would be fine, and that nothing was said about any noise violations at any of the practices...not to mention I went out to test 20 min before the start of the races.

 

Tom

[NickHolt]

Mel,

The three Allison cars that were trailered have practiced numerous times at THR. Were they ever checked w/db levels at practice and what were the results then. The Allison drivers that I spoke to were told "there is no way the Allison's will fail the db test" and that was a quote from a track official. This is why nobody was prepared to quiet their cars down.

 

That any of the Legacy drivers were not aware that THR was measuring sound levels seems unlikely. We have not kept this sound issue a secret. I talked to Bob at length about the noise situation on the phone well before the race and this issue has been discussed on Texas Speed Zone for the past six weeks.

 

That the cars you mention were not measured during practice sessions earlier in the year is probably true. While the 96 dB rules has been enforced in the past at THR, there has been an added emphasis on enforcement over the past six weeks due to increased pressure from the City of Kyle and from our neighbors. Perhaps these particular cars were not checked during practice although I do recall checking one Legacy (one of Bob's perhaps?) recently. It read at 95 dB.

 

The quote you refer to (which is not what I said, by the way) had to be from Tom H. since he and I communicated about this in the chat room late last week (Thursday or Friday night). He asked whether I thought the Legacys would have a problem with the sound level requirements and I said they should be OK since the one I checked was at 95 dB and since all the Legacys were supposed to be identical in the engine and exhaust departments. Why some Legacys were so quiet and why some were so loud is a mystery that only your Legacy officials will be able to solve.

 

This whole thing boils down to the fact that our THR neighbors and the Kyle city government are very concerned about the noise levels at THR. Frankly, all it will take is one unfavorable City Council vote and none of us will have to worry about the sound issue any longer. We are vigorously enforcing this rule -- whether I like it, you like it or anybody else likes it -- in an all-out effort to be good neighbors and stay in business. We are fighting for the track's very existence here.

 

Nick Holt

[Josh42]

we were testing at thr this past thursday and there were probably only 5 cars there-and nick was checking the db's evertime we went out-if you are not sure of your level of sound,thursday evenings would be a good time to find out instead of race day and everybody starts hanking the chain like they didnt know-by the way ,we didnt blow up in practice thursday-Tommy42

[LEGACY]

ss99

Yes there are several tracks across the counrtry that inforce the bd level and there has never been a problem with any Allison car. However there is a problem now @ THR and that must and will be addressed and fixed. We should be able to get help from the Allisons due to the fact that the cars were designed with the db level in mind. Wonder what it would do if you put a TURN-IN kit on one?

 

Lloyd

[BobRiley]

Nick checks one legacy at 95, no problem, they are all the same, so the readings should all be the same. They weren't, and that's why we are upset, wanting to blame someone. I will pound Kenny Allison Tuesday morning for a solution; I will be at THR Thursday testing different devices and ideas so we will all pass the test July 3. Nick usually watches and times most of the cars, on the track, at the Thursday practice, now if some one were to sneek-up on him, with maybe a bucket of cold water, that might be enough revenge for the rest of us. If you really want to hurt him, make him drink a six-pack of Shinner beer, he might make it back to Kyle for the Saturday night feature.

[Kathy]

Hey Bob,

 

I have two 5 gallon buckets I will loan you.

 

[Kathy]

But, Nick might like that ice cold water being dumped on him.

 

It gets pretty hot out there.

 

[NickHolt]

Lloyd,

Yes there are several tracks across the counrtry that inforce the bd level and there has never been a problem with any Allison car. However there is a problem now @ THR and that must and will be addressed and fixed. We should be able to get help from the Allisons due to the fact that the cars were designed with the db level in mind. Wonder what it would do if you put a TURN-IN kit on one?

 

Most of the Allison Legacys checked out just fine. Like I said, most were in the 93-95 dB range. That's what's so mystifying. It just seems strange to me that cars that are supposed to be identical in their engines and exhaust systems would be so different on the track. I think the Allisons have done their homework since most of the cars checked out OK and I doubt very much that they make different engines for different customers.

 

Nick Holt

[Guest Ed47]

Nick,

There is no real mystery in the different db levels of the Allison cars. The cars are identical but we have quick change rear ends. I imagine the ones with the loud levels were running a higher gear ratio than the ones that were under the level. Do all the Allison cars have the turnout pipe? I know its required on the National Touring Series but I would imagine that on a local level the turnout can be removed. Or even add a muffler to the turnout. Then the turnout can be removed on tracks that don't have a noise requirement.

[LEGACY]

Nick,

 

You are absolutly correct,they don't do different engines for different people.All new engines come directly from Mazda,they do not do the refreshes themselves.

Up until last year they were done by Roush Racing now they are being done by TRI-STAR MOTORSPORTS.On a refresh they will change valves,inserts,mains,pistons,etc. if necesary but will not bore and oversize in that case new long block,engine must remain stock per manufacturer.Exhaust very simple header,about 4' of 3"tube and a turn-out.

This was just for information,the problem is real and does exist and will be handled.We enjoy and have a great time at THR when we race there,the Houston guy's are planning to be there on July 3 and are coming to race not watch.This is should not be a big problem just have to fix it.

 

Lloyd

[direct-flo]

Hey John T. (aka: Crew)a disgrace huh. Why dont you discuss your ideas at our next drivers--slash crew chief meeting. This was an issue between the Track, director, and drivers involved.. as a crew chief your opinion is welcomed.

 

This was a one night thing and it will be water under the bridge.

 

p.s. Kyle did pretty well....great run...as well as the rest of us that ran.

 

 

Tom H

[BobRiley]

Tom..it may be water under the bridge to you; but I ashure you, I will never forget the word disgrace attached to anything I did or said. I hold a grudge for life and will never forget nor forgive. If John wants rules to be inforced, per Allison Legacy rulebook, so be it. I would advise everyone in the legacy pit area to have their membership cards with them at Corpus.