abrungot Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 So i was bored.. (not really just wanting do something i like) Here are the Top 3 in National Points & what's the car counts have been at the local tracks.. pretty big uphill battle!!! you can click on the image and see full size.. but in a nut sell.. 12 Cars per night vs. Nearly 30!! at both the other tracks.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debwill Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 You're right on the money, Aaron. Although ASA has never revealed the "secret formula, I feel sure that the car counts are an important factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrungot Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 From the ASA website: “The goal of the ASA Short Track National Championship is to activate a measuring system which takes into account many variables, such as field size and number of races in a season, and create a level playing field to determine who is the ‘best-of-the-best’ of the ASA Member Track champions.” Although the formula is naturally quite complex, the system creates a standardized point structure for competitors in a track’s feature division, along with a handicap to create equality between the variety of track sizes and equipment standards to determine a performance index. This index will be used to calculate competitor points for each race and will be factored by the number of races run to create an average (similar to a baseball batting average). Racetracks which invert their field have all so been taken into consideration mathematically. Competitors must be their track champion at the conclusion of the season, race in a minimum of 14 events, and only races run at the driver’s “home track” will be credited toward the new ASA Short Track National Championship. Credit goes to Kevin Spiddle at Speednet Direct who is the mastermind behind the formula used by the American Speed Association to calculate the ASA Short Track National Champion. He is setting up the system to automatically calculate the events run on any given weekend of the season, and post up-to-date standings which can be viewed online at www.ASA-Racing.com. Results of competitions run up to midnight on Sept. 28 can be utilized for the calculations. ASA will create East and West divisions, with an ASA Short Track Divisional Champion crowned in each. The one driver who accumulates the most points will be named the ASA Short Track National Champion. With the title comes a cash reward, and the ultimate dream – a test session with Joe Gibbs Racing. http://www.asa-racing.com/story.asp?StoryID=7859 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford27 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 THOSE 30 CAR COUNTS ARE LATE MODELS...THATS IMPRESSIVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrungot Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Some interesting notes on that car count.. $700 to win/ $200 13th to last place.. They Run Heat races & Qualify Pay small amounts for the top in each race there.. They have a Tire rule, Limiting 2 tires per race (except first 2 nights) & a requirement that you have to race on 2 tires from the previous weeks race.. Also not seeing anywhere where a race entry fee is required, but i am not sure there... Seems realy good at keeping cost down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 They have a Tire rule, Limiting 2 tires per race (except first 2 nights) & a requirement that you have to race on 2 tires from the previous weeks race.. Bingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundogC3 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Bingo Yeah, what he said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badsonic Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 cant disagree sound like more $$$$$ wow even in the heat races Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyhorse Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 what would you suggest the tire rule be? we run 4 nights on right sides.i try not to pay attention to what other people do, so i don't know how many nights they are getting.i can see it in tsrs but not in supers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debwill Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 During my many years on the staff for both SAS and THR, the tire rule has often been discussed. The challenge with a tire rule is enforcement of the rule. When a track figures out a way to save money for the drivers, someone figures out a way to cheat and spend more money to get an advantage. When I've discussed this possibility with people who have tried it, they always seem to say that it's a nightmare to police. Again, it's just what I've heard, but I haven't been around it much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 I wouldn't suggest a tire rule in super stocks - only because it's not needed. I also get at least 4 nights on my right side 970s, and they don't fall off much until the bitter end. I was referring to the late models. As you know the F53s are a totally different story. I personally would like to see a 2-tire per night rule with the excpetion of the first race. I know it's hard to police and all that, but I just think the TSRS series would stand a better chance of surival if costs were contained in some areas - starting with tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundogC3 Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 It's not hard to police it. The tire's have a barcode on em(with #'s right below it). While up north with the Ray's, that's how they do it, simple(swipe,record #,two second's). They have the two tire rule up north almost everywhere. There have been several team's that have stated that if TSRS went to a two tire,and shock rule, they just might bring there car's out of moth ball's. And as you well know, there are a BUNCH collecting dust! It's hard to outrun cubic $$$$$$$$$..some team's are buying 8 tire's a race day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacecar Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 I have given my input to several TSRS staff that the Goodyear 10" slick (like HMP uses) or the Goodyear 970 would be more cost-effective for the TSRS racers. Less occurrence of flat tires, and no advantage to buying new tires for every race event. Goodyears would require a warmup lap during qualifying. And this causes no problems for the officials (such as policing a 2 tire per week rule). No need for this rule if using the Goodyears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 change the number of laps for the superstocks from 40 to 30 laps will save on fuel, tires, wear on the motor. good ideal pacecar. believe all the above would help car count so lets race. rules are in place to keep the cars equal and put on a competitive show for the fans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 I ran a one-tire-a-week rule at SAS during the mid-nineties. As far as I know, only one team beat the enforcement on a regular basis and he apparentely had a deal with someone in the tire distribution systems (there were a lot of folks in that system, so don't go jumping to any conclusions as to whom that might be...) Just before I left SAS I was talking with Hoosier about embedding a chip in the sidewall at four points - two on each side. It would have been very expensive in those days, but truck fleets all over the world keep track of their tires using a similar technology that could be easily adapted by racing tire companies. Of course, race tire companies are trying to sell more tires, not less, so there will undoubtedly be some resistance to this on their part. The one thing that shocked me about the one-tire rule was that tire sales did not drop off as we expected they would. There were several reasons for that: 1. Teams that were selling or giving their take-offs no longer did so since they needed the tires in there inventory. 2. Teams that were buying take-offs now were purchasing a new tire a week just like everyone else. 3. The car counts started climbing because now teams who knew they had no chance to compete with the high dollar teams now felt they were at least on equal tires so they came back out. So there were more teams buying tires than in the past. The way to stop cheating in such a system is to impound all tires after every race. They do this at Beach Ridge and at a couple of other New England tracks. This not only solves the two-tire-a-week enforcement, but also stops the "all-week tire soaking" advantage since they have no access to the tires. What a tire rule does is remove a huge advantage from the big-money teams. The well-funded teams always scream and moan when a tire rule is discussed for a good reason. And they usually recruit others in the same division to join in pressuring the track - even to the point of threatenen boycotts - the racers' ultimate weapon... But even if a well-funded team does pull out, there will be others who replace them because they now realize that the playing field just got leveled out in a big way. Enough. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundogC3 Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Well said Nick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrungot Posted August 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 looks like nick killed this one!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hray Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Here's the Motordrome and Jennerstown shock and tire rule for ASA Whelen Late Model series. It's been in effect for many years and works very well. As Gunnar said, they simply barcode the Hoosier factory # (Goodyears have a simular #) and check it against your inventory. As far as shocks are concerned, it doesn't matter which shocks as long as they are reasonably priced and everyone runs the same ones. M. SHOCKS – (1) The following Penske Racing Shocks are the only shocks approved for competition. (a) Penske 7100 Series, steel body, non-externally adjustable shocks. b Penske 7400 Series, aluminum body, non-externally adjustable, coil over body (black). c Penske 7500 Series, aluminum body, non-externally adjustable coil over or smooth body (red). (2) All shocks must have solid shafts. Hollow shafts are not permitted. (3) Penske factory installed air valves are mandatory. (4) Sealed shocks will not be permitted. (5) The following Penske Racing Shock pistons are mandatory. (a) Standard linear piston with any dish. b High flow piston with any dish. c No other pistons are permitted. (d) Absolutely no de-coupled or Hi-frequency pistons are permitted. (6) Head valve or base valve shocks are not permitted. (7) Position sensitive modifications are prohibited. (8) Gas pressure cannot be substituted with a spring or any other mechanical device. (9) Only shock repair parts manufactured by Penske Racing Shocks are permitted. B. TIRE ALLOCATION- (1) The following tire allocation procedures are mandatory. (a) All tires used in competition must be purchased from the speedway. b Tires will be sold on race nights only except for a drivers initial tire inventory. c Every driver will have a tire inventory, identified by identification number, which they will use for all competition. Tires will be allocated for the driver, not the car. (d) All tires will be identified by a unique identification number approved by track officials. (e) All drivers will have an initial tire allocation of eight (8) tires to start the season. (f) Each driver will have an additional weekly allocation of one (1) tire, starting the second week of competition. (g) Drivers may purchase their allocation for the following week after signing in at registration. (h) Drivers may purchase tires for practice purposes only, but such tires will not be permitted for use in competition. (i) Any driver wishing to use up tires left over from last season may do so, however, the tires must be registered with track officials and have registration numbers applied and recorded to that driver’s inventory. (j) The track may, from time to time, authorize the purchase of additional tires for all drivers. A driver may only race on tires registered to their own inventory. (k) If a driver ruins a tire during hot laps, heat races, or qualifying events, that tire may be replaced, at the discretion of the track officials, provided it has not been used in any previous event. Tires will not be replaced after the start of the feature event, or on the following week. (l) If a driver purchases or registers their next week’s allocation and fails to compete in the featured event, that driver will not be able to register their weekly allocation at their next appearance. In the event of a rain out prior to the start of the feature event, but after the tires have been purchased or registered, there will be no allocation for that night. (m) Any driver that competes in a race with tires that are not registered to their inventory will be disqualified from the event and forfeit all points and purse monies for the event. Any driver caught trying to alter, duplicate, or in any other way circumvent the intent of the tire rules, will be severely penalized. (n) A driver may not sell their tires to other competitor’s for use during competition. C. TIRE DECLARATION – (1) Each driver must declare, to track officials in writing, the tires that they will be running prior to any heat races or feature events. (2) Failure to declare such tires or failure to compete on declared tires will result in disqualification, loss of points, and loss of purse money for the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrungot Posted August 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Nick... didn't want you to delete your post... only wanted to bring life back to this discussion.... Just figured poking fun at you would help.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Nick... didn't want you to delete your post... only wanted to bring life back to this discussion.... Just figured poking fun at you would help.. Aaron, there's not much to discuss with the original topic - our car counts don't compare to some of the other track in this competition, and that hurts the chances of our track champ. On the other hand, there's plenty to discuss about tire and shock rules.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrungot Posted August 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Chase... I think there is plenty still to talk about... Example:Why is the only 12 supers and why can we not attract new blood for example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Chase... I think there is plenty still to talk about... Example:Why is the only 12 supers and why can we not attract new blood for example I had a post all typed out but elected to leave it alone. If time permits Saturday, I'll give you my opinion on that. It's best left in private. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Moon Motorsports Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 I don't have a dog in the fight, but during the Octoberfast race, Jack marked every tire as the truck/car rolled through tech and we had to race with those tires. Would painting or marking the tires be a way to easily police the tire issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker36 Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Money... Some don't even have jobs let alone enough to go racing. I think that would be your best bet as to why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundogC3 Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Money... Some don't even have jobs let alone enough to go racing. I think that would be your best bet as to why. BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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