RETrott Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 Actually, this subject will not "die" no matter how many threads get closed... While I think Thumper is off a bit on his "pay a big purse" theory, he's absolutely correct about the fact that the Stock Car Racing community needs to move on or suffer the consequences. In the early 1970's, legendary Pan American Speedway owner and promoter Ricci Ware was telling folks that he believed that four-cylinder short track cars are the "wave of the future." He backed that up by supporting the "Mini Stock" class that ran there for several years before the quarter-mile closed. He may have been a few decades ahead of his time, but I think Ware was on to something. Nick Nick, You are correct about moving on, but when competitors, fans, sponsors, and TV NETWORKS constantly strongly imply that those among us that are politically moderate/progressive are not welcome as race fans or competitors, that is discouraging a very high percentage of fans and competitors from participation. Looking at recent elections, that's 50% plus of the population. I agree that a lot of rethinking is needed regarding the types of race cars used, but the political landscape needs looking at also. Not trying to put a dog in the fight, because the fight left my dog long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john42 Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 Nick, I can't figure out how to PM you. Thanks, and keep up the good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 While I'll tend to agree that smaller, bumble bee sounding cars may be more efficient, economical, blah, blah, blah.......FANS will NOT pay to see a night of "mini classes" racing. Reb, the attendance curve at our traditional V-8 dominated short tracks is headed in the wrong direction and has been headed in the wrong direction for a number of years. I make a daily 120-mile commute and travel to race tracks around the state every weekend. That's a lot of miles. The one thing I can count on every trip is some lowered, big exhaust, spoiler decked, four-banger zipping by me like I'm tied to a post. I can almost see myself in their car 45 years ago - only I'm in my 57 Chevy going about 90 past some old Packard or DeSoto with some "old fart" driving. Hmmm... Times change whether we like it or not. So, where are these youngers getting their kicks? On Loop 1604 at about 3:00 am you can see a cool Mitsibuti taking on an tricked out Acura or a barely legal Honda holding off a souped up Neon. Or about any other make that buzzed by me that day on my commute. Or they pay to zip down a quarter-mile strip somewhere. Why aren't these youngsters at the oval track? I think you know the answer. They don't give a crap about a Holley 850 and a 3500 pound antique. And, frankly, the power structure - and that includes me, unfortunately - doesn't really give a crap about them either. Yes, I'm an old-school old-fart and I love the thump of a V-8's as much as anyone on this forum. But I'm not blind and I'm not stupid. Unless we get our heads out of our ... um.. er.. the sand, the current generation of computer chip tinkerers, big fat muffler maniacs and suicidal street racers will be somewhere else doing their thing. Case in point: Last week on my way to HMP, I passed by a place called Lone Star Raceway. The place was packed with tricked out Acuras, Mitsubichis, Hondas, Skyes, RX8s, etc., all paying plenty to run down the track for a quarter-mile. I'd be willing to bet that there is no purse offered either. I don't have a plan to incorporate this group into our stock car racing family - yet - but it's time we recognized that our V-8 toys are all but extinct in the real world. As a first step, I plan on asking a few of my 4-banger friends to meet with me in San Marcos in very early June. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 Nick, I can't figure out how to PM you. Thanks, and keep up the good job. John - just click on my screen name and down will pop a box. Click on "Send Message." Or you can email me at nick.holt@lonestarspeedzone.com Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97car Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 I hope the video link works, here is the future of your tow vehicles. watch.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 Case in point: Last week on my way to HMP, I passed by a place called Lone Star Raceway. The place was packed with tricked out Acuras, Mitsubichis, Hondas, Skyes, RX8s, etc., Since Hennessy Performance took over running LSMP I don't doubt it had a pit full of rice burners.... Look at the LSMP website, or Hennesy website for that matter......let me know how many American production cars you see on either site. Even SAR has "Import" racing specials......and yes they probably do have a good car turn out...but not for me. I seriously doubt any of those street racers would risk tearing up their STUFF on a circle track. Hell some of them can't go straight for a 1/4 mile, let alone turn left<<<Sarcasm>>> Point is, you can't equivocate circle track racing/racers and drag racing/racers......CASE IN POINT: Pinks All Out had nearly 400 cars running for 16 PAYING spots(if you didn't bet all-in round 1 and lose) and a sell out crowd......Yet what are all the circle track racers saying....BETTER PURSES.....It's a whole different mentality......Just like NA$CAR and IRL have totally different groups of base fans. One is beer, hot dogs and racing T-shirts, the other wine, cheese and IZOD Polo shirts. the attendance curve at our traditional V-8 dominated short tracks is headed in the wrong direction and has been headed in the wrong direction for a number of years. I think it has little to do with "short tracks" one bit......it's about ALL tracks anymore......Did you notice the empty seats for the Lowes "All-Star race"....or even the NHRA national event race from Bristol.....It's almost ALL tracks that are hurting because Obama is trying to "FIX" the economy with his bailouts of companies that are so poorly managed they can't keep the business afloat, while the CEO/CFO/ETC., lavish in their nice homes, yachts, big bonuses and GUESS WHAT.....BIG CARS AND SUVS. Nearly 6 million people on unemployment(that's not counting those ineligible or who's benefits have run out---like mine are about to do)......what percentage do you think are racers/race fans?????? Quit drinking the "Kool-Aid!" (author Bill O'Reilly) But as usual, I guess I know nothing about racing........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 i sell tons of parts to these little four bangers ..and some of the power these guys have .is staggering... they are impressed with what power we have under the hood of our four banger .seeing it is carbed .but in no way can i get what they have ..... i would love to see what one of those 500. hp neons .honda.s i .and even some fords .. can do on one of our tracks ..with ten inch wheels ...... ..... .. i love v8.s they will always be around .id miss them if they died .but four bangers are the future ... and our carb motors are going to be the passed some day ... maybe sooner than later ...but if racen is ti survive .. something has to change .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landlord Posted May 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 I have spent the last 2 weeks looking for metric parts.They are still out there no doubt,but the price is rising and the writing is on the wall!!!!WE WILL run out of metric parts sooner more than later.The racers at the track are getting grey and the young guns are few and far between.We are racing cars that are over 20 years old.So I guess the question is when the metric parts dry up(and they will)where does racing go from there.It's going to be hard to recruit guys from the Hot Import Nights crowd.They see the cars we race as antique and they HAVE the girls so why come to our venue(they won't)!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 20 years old ..all our cars are older than that ...one has a 72 body mounted on a part 75 chassis . the rest is home built ...our other two ,are 77.s ....... ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landlord Posted May 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 20 years old ..all our cars are older than that ...one has a 72 body mounted on a part 75 chassis . the rest is home built ...our other two ,are 77.s ....... ..... I am talking about the "metric" cars (1978-1987 GM Monte Carlo,Grand Prix,Cutlass) These cars are used in alot of classes(dirt and asphalt)and are getting harder and harder to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETrott Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 I hope all of the racers read and pay close attention to these posts about auto racing's future. Personally, sometimes I think short track racing is about "Late Modeled Out"! The Modifieds, to me, show a lot of promise as an upper tier class of race car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 20 years old ..all our cars are older than that ...one has a 72 body mounted on a part 75 chassis . the rest is home built ...our other two ,are 77.s ....... ..... I am talking about the "metric" cars (1978-1987 GM Monte Carlo,Grand Prix,Cutlass) These cars are used in alot of classes(dirt and asphalt)and are getting harder and harder to find. no pun. i understand ..its getting harder to find what we have ...one problem with todays car .unless everyone builds one .there is no class running today the new cars can race in ...... plus the cost of building one isnt going to be cheap per say ..just to buy one to build cost ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landlord Posted May 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 I hope all of the racers read and pay close attention to these posts about auto racing's future. Personally, sometimes I think short track racing is about "Late Modeled Out"! The Modifieds, to me, show a lot of promise as an upper tier class of race car. So the question is "who" or "what" will define racings future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumper Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 It was good to hear the opinions from everybody.What I hear is the V8 guys dont give a crap about 4 cyl cars or the sport cars the factory is building.It seems Ive heard a lot of talk about NASCAR getting too far away from production cars so that the race on Sunday and buy on Monday has little meaning.Bout the same thing. Its a fact that racing needs new ideas if it will ever flourish again. Using what the factories are building is a logical move.The reason the drag races do so well is they dont need a special purpose car to be involved. The modern sports car has never been given a chance.Every ministock class,those tracks that still have them,is nothing more than a bomber class designed for children.The guys with the Neons,Mitsus,Hondas etc are not intrested in running junk.The V8 guys at most tracks dont think much of them because they are not impressive.The only way to make this work is for the top classes and an open minded promoter to get behind this idea and figgure out HOW to make these factory hot rods intresting not only for the fans but also for the racer.The good thing is it can be done at a fraction of the cost that Oldtimer and I had to start with becaust the horsepower is already there.So is most of what suspension is needed.The fans can relate because they see these cars all the time.The car clubs can build one of these cars more cheaply than starting from scratch with a detroit iron.It would be great to have clubs competeting against each other.But they have to have the leeway to be creative and use stuff they already have.And they have to be not only accepted but encouraged.A handful of well known big car racers could get this started and give the image needed. In the 80s we ran outlaw ministocks and were turning times in the hi 14s.The 10" tires made the difference along with engines modified to reach almost 200hp,now a turbo or supercharged 4 cyl can double that from the factory.Why not use that cheaper power?Just go to a car auction and imagine what cars would be fun to race.Today only the speed shops are making money racing. And anyone who does not think big purses bring big car counts is living in a cave.Look around,STS just had their biggest show this year with a bigger purse.The modified nationals that were once held in McAllen drew over 150 cars with a big purse.5K to win,1K to start,125 cars did not qualify.The track made pleanty of money for this 4 day show,about 40K profit.Now they pay squat and cant make 10 cars. The show also needs expanding,live music,games,playground,game room,lounge,stunt driving,motorcycles,quads,BMX,car shows,bikinies,BBQ pit food,beer and anything else that big crouds like to be around.Everybody love a party.Lets get a party atmosphere.Our vanity is our biggest enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted May 26, 2009 Report Share Posted May 26, 2009 And anyone who does not think big purses bring big car counts is living in a cave Not quite thumper....but Kerr-patch is close....and I'll partly disagree with the statement anyway... Owen had a big paying Late Model show when he ran CCS, only 15 cars showed up, some of them drug out of the weeds just for that race. Las Cruces pays 10K to win for big Modified show and is lucky to get 60 cars...granted TMS Dirt Track only paid 3K and got 200+ cars, but to many of them it's the "prestige" factor in winning at that track. So it can work either way. Top heavy purses seldom work in that effect, purses that pay back good through the field work better(IMHO). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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