Not so traditional

[Definitive]

Ray Evernham,Bill Davis,and possibly Richard Petty.Who is next?Can the sport thrive on names and faces that nobody recognises?TRT(formerly Bill Davis Racing)says Bill Davis will only be around as a "god fatherly" presense.Is that just to keep their fans hanging on?Bill Davis would still be a factor if the the teams were franchised.

 

Gone or going:

 

Bill Davis Racing

Petty Enterprises

Ray Evernham Motorsports

Dale Earnhardt Incorporated

Newman Haas Racing

Penski Racing South<-----prolly gone soon in it's current form

[nightmoves 99]

I'm going to add my 2 cents worth , if you look at the reasons needed for the big money sponsors ,( the museum quality shops, the million dollar motorcoaches, the 80-90 people needed to get the 3-4 cars ready for each type of track ) ,think about it . Some will call it progress ,some call it trying to keep up, I read once that every team just HAD to have a 7 shaker post setup in their shop a reporter asked the crew chief how much it helped ,he said "it would probably be full of info if we knew how to read it". For every example I gave someone can come up with a reason to justify it. Just explain to me why you need a shop that fancy ,or any of the stuff I brought up. Maybe I'm wrong but I can remember teams being sucessful with less than half of what they use now,I'm not saying they need to pull up with open trailers and pickups ,but come on personal chefs? They are going to price themselves out of the sport if something doesn't happen. Just my 2 cents.

[Definitive]

The only way to save the sport is by franchising it.The only thing keeping billionaire Jerry Buss' Lakers from having a starting lineup of Kobe Bryant,Dwight Howard,Chris Paul,Labron James,and Dwayne Wade at 500 million per year for each player,is the fact that they are franchises governed by a higher authority,that has set salary rules.The outside investors,that are currently buying up the "traditional" teams are jockying for positions as the four or five remaining premier teams.Those are the only teams that will ever win races in the future.Look at the series ten short years ago compared to today,and you will realise that it is just a few years from being just like F1.F1 usually has just 3 or 4 cars winning all of the races.The rest of the cars are just there for additional noise.

[gundogC3]

The Yankee's are fixing to give a guy 180,000,000.00 contract for 5 year's. That's stupid, and i'm just trying to figure out where I can enough money to put good shock's on the L/M. That's 3 mill a month, around 100 g's a day to play baseball? That's a slap in the face to working stiff's like us, and what's wrong with our country right now.

[RACENRANDY]

The Yankee's are fixing to give a guy 180,000,000.00 contract for 5 year's. That's stupid, and i'm just trying to figure out where I can enough money to put good shock's on the L/M. That's 3 mill a month, around 100 g's a day to play baseball? That's what's wrong with our country right now.

 

AMEN TO THAT GUNDOG99!!!

[HiTech]

The Yankee's are fixing to give a guy 180,000,000.00 contract for 5 year's. That's stupid, and i'm just trying to figure out where I can enough money to put good shock's on the L/M. That's 3 mill a month, around 100 g's a day to play baseball? That's what's wrong with our country right now.

AND I WOULD BET NOT ONE OF THOSE GUYS WOULD TAKE ANY OF THAT MONEY AND SAVE SOMEONE FROM LOOSING THIER HOME ...........

[Blue Moon Motorsports]

No they wouldn't....They would go on strike so they can get another mil or two in their pockets. NASCAR replaced Indy Car because the Average Joe could relate to the Steak and Beer NASCAR driver's better than the Caviar and Champagne driver's of Indy Car. NASCAR driver's are the new Indy Car driver's.....who's going to replace them in the common man's hearts? 10 - 20 years ago, a guy could imagine sitting down for a beer with Earnhardt Senior, Darrell Waltrip, Rusty Wallace or a myriad of other top driver's. But the new NASCAR is made up of polished pretty boys that share little with the demographic that drove NASCAR to mega popularity. ALL sports are full of spoiled rich brats that have, along with the powers that be,forgotton what made the sport what is is. Thank God for short track racers, who bring the down-to-earth, back to the racing fan.

 

Whew.....Let me get down off of my soapbox.

[speed demon 7]

Who is going to replace them, well, we are. We are putting on the better shows, and its more affordable, and they can come see us live every week. Our stands have been filling up more, and I fell that NASCAR has helped by pissing the fans off. Just my 2 cents worth, and I am expecting change!!!

[waddy]

If you really want to see the best grass root racing in america, go to the snowball derby in dec, after that it is all over this country every fri or sat night, these racers and friends (crew) and family are where everyone started, some just got luckier than some, I still think texas has the best merry christmas everyone waddy

[HiTech]

Who is going to replace them, well, we are. We are putting on the better shows, and its more affordable, and they can come see us live every week. Our stands have been filling up more, and I fell that NASCAR has helped by pissing the fans off. Just my 2 cents worth, and I am expecting change!!!

YOU SAID IT ....... ALL GOOD THINGS COME TO AN END ...AND THEN IT STARTS OVER AGAIN ...SOMEONE IS ALWAYS WAITING TO TAKE YOUR PLACE ..ITS TIME THE LOCAL GOT ALL THE GLORY .. WITH NASCAR THE WAY IT IS ..LOCAL TRACKS NEED TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS SLOW DOWN SOME HOW ..IM JUST NOT SMART ENOUGH BY MYSELF TO FIND THE ANSWER TO GETTING MORE EX NASCAR FANS AWAY FROM HOME AND OUT TO THE TRACK .... THIS IS AN OPPERTUNITY FOR LOCALS .........

[Definitive]

There have been a handful of people from the Cup series that have reinvested in the local racing.Some that come to mind are Ray Evernham,Tony Stewart,Ken Shrader,and even Matt Kenseth and Dale Earnhardt Jr. have invested in Hooters Pro Cup teams.I'm sure a lot more have done this that I don't know about.My hope is that instead of just going fishing when they retire,more of them become interested in the local racing.Unfortunatly we don't seem to have anyone from Texas doing this.Is there even a chance that somebody like say...Felipe Lopez might take interest in SAS,THR,HMP,or CC Speedway?

[dano36]

I agree that racing is coming back to its roots simply because all those that got NASCAR to where it is today are being put aside for the all mighty sponsors dollars who are putting in their fair haired boys to drive. Its been the trend of the major professional sports to simply play to the sponsors dollars and its too the point where the sponsors dictate the games such as holding the green flag until the commercials end, or not allowing the ball to be centered until the commercials are over. Believe me that happens. How often have you seen a race restarted while the stations were in commercial mode? Another NASCAR driver has invested money in a local track and rebuilt the entire facility and added stands and they pack them in every Saturday night. That includes several special events throughout the season including the WoO sprints and late models, All Star Sprints and a special Victory Junction Gang event in mid summer. That driver is Dave Blaney and the Track is Sharon Speedway in Hartford, OH, Blaney's home town. I have seen the trend for a couple years now that racing is returning to its roots. And when one says we can thank NASCAR for that, I totally agree. NASCAR won't fade into the sunset but I do beileve they will realize some of their mistakes and start correcting them rather than trying to improvise with new ways to race which tend to always favor sponsors over fans. JMO but anyone who watched CART fade and disappear will see the same trend in NASCAR.

[Definitive]

Micheal Jordan said that all of the best basketball players are playing pickup games on the playgrounds.Someone once asked him if there will be another MJ.He said yes,if the owners would look past their noses and see what's out there that the universities past up.I think the Spurs are doing a great job of that.I would bet anything that the best stock car drivers are still out there slaving away night after night just to race for pennies on Saturday nights.The only way NASCAR can solve the driver problem is to be able to govern who is eligable.Yes,I know,everyone is sick of hearing this from me but,franchising the sport is the only way to keep a handle on the talent,or lack of.It would allow somebody like Cary Stapp to race his name into a pool of drivers that the NASCAR franchisies can pick from.Someone like Juan Pablo would have to start at THR and race his way up the ladder.But....pie in the sky dreams I guess.

[Blue Moon Motorsports]

You should be able to race your way to a major ride regardless of age or family money....not get a ride because you're a pretty boy and 16 years old. The days where Bill France Sr. loaned guys money so they could get to the races to race, and you could talk an owner into giving you a shot if you have enough balls to walk into the shop and ask are long gone....to the detriment of the sport. Progress isn't always better. Maybe the fact that "retro" is so in style, i.e: Challenger,Camaro,'Stang, would clue the powers that be that Joe Fan is tired of cookie cutter cars and progress. HEY BRIAN FRANCE!!!!! If you want to shake up NASCAR and get people interested again, drop the chase and lets race cars that look like cars that we drive or better yet, race retro style cars from the 80's and 90's!!!!

[jracer98]

What money did Carl Edwards, Clint Bowyer, Denny Hamlin or the Busch's (etc.) bring to the table?

 

Jay

[tqj3]

I don't know the figures, Jay, but it was a lot.

[ShortTrackFan]

I have no specific knowlege on this subject but I'll bet TQ lunch that at least Edwards and Hamlin brought no money to the table. I would be surprised to learn that Clint Bowyer or Kurt Busch paid their way to their first rides.

[tqj3]

Well, some of it is (not surprisingly) difficult to track. Both Busch brothers raced a lot in the far west and were second-generation drivers. Their dad, Tom, not only drove race cars but sold MAC tools, which you would think gave him the chance to meet a lot of folks who could help. Neither brother seemed to have trouble getting good rides or be short of cash.

Even then, Kurt got his big break when someone shot Chris Trickle and Kurt was offered Trickle's ride.

 

Hamlin is a true short track guy who made it out of the bullrings, but he was also pretty lucky. He was doing well when a competitor overheard him say the family team probably wouldn't make it through the season. The competing owner promptly let his driver go and put Hamlin in the seat. As he was racing in the Southeat, Joe Gibbs became aware of him and signed him Was that all there was to it? Who knows? I agree that Hamlin and Edwards, in fact, all of these four, are extremely talented.

 

Clint Bowyer made his big move by racing in an ARCA race in Nashville in 2003. He led 47 laps and finished second, a performance that got the attention of Richard Childress. All well and good, but where did Bowyer get the money to run the ARCA race? One story has it that he mortgaged his house, and if the race at Nashville had gone badly, he would have been finished.

 

Edwards is another second-generation driver, one who took out a long-running ad in National Speed Sport News looking for a ride. Edwards had a heck of a career on short tracks, but still had trouble getting attention (even though, among other things, he always carried business cards that read "Carl Edwards, Race Car Driver"). He and Busch were both signed early by Jack Roush, while Hamlin got on with Joe Gibbs and Bowyer with Childress.

 

These four may be the exceptions that prove the rule, because too few drivers are making it on talent, though that may change in the next few years, depending on what NASCAR decides to do (or has to do) to keep the money ship afloat.

 

And, as I said, sometimes it's tough to get the straight story. Nobody wants to admit they're buying their ride, though almost everybody will tell you rides are being bought.

[HiTech]

paying your way into a sport seems to be the norm ... a well known world wide golfer has purty much paid his son.s way onto local baseball teams ..boy cant throw catch or hit a ball ..but has played on one or more of my son.s teams at third .....lol

[ShortTrackFan]

No doubt that rides are bought, but these four and likely Kyle Busch got where they are more on talent, hard work and some measure of luck than $$$. I was under the impression that Mr. Busch was a City of Las Vegas employee; neither that nor MAC tool sales conjurues up "papa moneybags" in my mind. Matt Kenseth & Jimmie Johnson are two more that come to mind as having less than wealthy backgrounds.

[supertx]

It's all abought money no pay no play. the drivers that you talk about didn't come from money but they did find a sports marketing company to find the money. When you use to go to a NASCAR race you thought you were seeing some of the best drivers ,not any more. Not that there's not some good drivers there just a whole lot that shouldn't be there.Save your money and go to the SNOWBALL or the CHILI BOWEL biggist of all support your local tracks.

[RETrott]

Great topic. The Peanut Gallery is filling up, and I am not so lonely here as I used to be. As late as the mid '70s, top teams had box trucks pulling ONE CAR on a trailer with a car cover. And now, BIG RIGS are even seen at local short tracks. But, back to NASCAR GN/Cup, TRADITION definitley appears to be on the wane. STOCK CAR and MODIFIED Auto Racing can still be done, and successfully, but with applied logic regarding production, after market, and manufactured/race shop vehicles and parts.

[REBELRACER]

the sports just really got out of hand because one guy who had the money bought a hauler, so now everyone else thinks they have to buy a hauler to keep up with them. same with the rules on the cars. one guy tries a new widget and finds out his car handles better, the rules dont say you cant run that widget and next thing you know everyone is having to run that widget to keep up and be competitive. nascar is a product of its own doing. they allowed the teams to have unlimited cars and now it has gotten to be where a team has to have 4 teams to be able to compete. they pushed the single car teams out of the market. they dont have to worry about franchising nascar, it is basically there already. gibbs is a franchise, rousch is a franchise, hendrick is a franchise, they are no different then the dallas cowboys or arizona cardinals. you buy a t-shirt for dale jr, it is officially licensed. the single car owners that have been pushed aside need to say to hell with nascar and go back to supporting the local late model and street stock drivers in their area. let nascar self implode, it is only a matter of time.

[Definitive]

Now we have Elliot Sadler losing his ride to AJ "WHAT HAVE I DONE YET" Almendinger.He will probably pick up at least one more ride,or maybe he won't.It is just another example of a winning,long standing,racer that is out on his rear because he didn't win last year.Elliot is no Earnhardt or Gordon but,put him in a decent car and he can win with it.

 

NASCAR has nothing that is even close to being a franchise.I can see where the term "licensed" can be confusing but,if Hendrick wanted to print his own t-shirts for his drivers and sell them he can.The "officially licensed" logo is just there to keep people from copying those certain shirts and reselling them.The money for officially licensed NASCAR appearral is not divided up amongst the teams.If Gordon sells more shirts under his ccontract,he gets more money.

 

If NASCAR was franchised:

 

--the teams would all have the same number of employees

--these employees would all be under contract

--the tools each team would be alotted would be the same

--there would be a salary cap on the shop employees/pit crew/drivers/crew cheifs

--all tv revenue would be divided equally amongst the teams

--teams would have to get NASCAR"league" permission to trade drivers/crew chiefs/pit crews/shop workers

--each team would have the same number of cars

--there would be a farm system set up that the owners would have to draft their drivers/crew cheif/pit members from(this would rescue asphalt short track racing)

 

There are a thousand other things to list here...and is why it is taking NASCAR so long to pull the trigger.Just having officials at every race shop would be an undertaking into itself...but not at all impossible...especially with today's technology...cameras/gps/media/etc....